Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

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Gingerbread, that's a thoughtful post. It makes a lot of sense. He was constantly trying to meet "beautiful young women." Naturally, it's normal for a guy to want to do that. But, he apparently had his own ideas about how things should go from there. He was probably really excited that one of these young women had consented to come to his house in the middle of the night. I too think he was as charming as he could be on the phone or in text. Cute nerd is exactly how he was positioning himself most of them, even incorporating some television tropes into his online persona.

He had already established his "don't take no for an answer" position, though. And it's very possible that KL was definitive in her "no."

In other news, True Crime Garage devotes this week's episode(s) to the Mackenzie Lueck case.

Most of you probably know more about the case than is on the podcast, but it is now a part of the ongoing nature of the case.

I think he was really excited when she agreed and I am trying to imagine the next for him when ML realized he was not as she had thought. Was it in the car? Did she hesitate and ignore her gut feelings initially and try to be polite? Did she wait until she was at his house, but now her luggage was in his car and she is not dealing with a rational person, she is dealing with a man who deals poorly with rejection, a rage monster. She didn't know the danger she was in because he had a mask on that was easy to wear while texting, flirting, and talking over the phone.

What he did after the crime shows zero planning. His communication and texting openly before the crime shows zero planning. Maybe Hatch park was his idea, but we don’t know yet.
 
I have followed the MT case in Iowa. I realize that Iowa law could be different than Utah. In Iowa law you would be surprised to learn what a short time is involved in determining what is premeditation.
It is not even close to advance planning.
Not familiar with that one, would like to look into it if I knew MT name
 
What they & you did for Mackenzie is beautiful- not to sound simplistic, but it is. And it speaks volumes to the contribution ML made in the lives of others. I look forward to purchasing the guide they are making for how to get help from MSM when the worst is staring you down. I’m so impressed with how quickly everyone banded together, created a strategy & made it happen. AA might still be walking around free to endanger someone else if not for the quick pressure of MSM.

Well, actually I suspect that LE was on top of it from the start, and that MSM didn’t have much, or anything to do with it. In other cases, where tips from the public were vital, MSM would be more of a help. But here, LE seems to have taken it seriously right from the start, and had everything that they needed to work with. Phone & app warrants took a little time.

But the project may offer priceless help in other cases.
 
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Ashley Moser on Twitter (Video)
#BREAKING @nslchat city council votes to replace “dummy” cameras with real ones after friends of #MackenzieLueck voice security concerns. The full story at 10:00 @KSL5TV
8:29 PM - 16 Jul 2019
 
Well, actually I suspect that LE was on top of it from the start, and that MSM didn’t have much, or anything to do with it. In other cases, where tips from the public were vital, MSM would be more of a help. But here, LE seems to have taken it seriously right from the start. Phone & app warrants took a little time.

But the project may offer priceless help in other cases.
My post was not intended to discredit LE- who’ve done amazing investigative work. My post was intended to credit the friends of ML who also did a great job. They knew Mackenzie had encountered danger immediately. I think pressure from MSM always helps. MOO.
 
I’m sorry if it seemed that I was implying that Kenzie did anything to deserve this. That’s very different than Kenzie having been willing to meet up with him that night.

Here’s an example of what I mean: say I go meet up with my friend John Doe to have a drink sometime after midnight. I am going to meet him of my own free will, because I know him and want to spend time with him.

Then John Doe kills me, and suddenly everyone online is discussing how he clearly had to have coerced me to meet him after midnight for a drink or forced me to do it somehow, or blackmailed me. When the reality is, I just met up with my friend to have a drink. It doesn’t mean I deserve to be killed, but it can also be a fact that I voluntarily met up with him and that doesn’t mean I did anything wrong.

I’m bothered by the constant assertions that Kenzie had to have been forced outside of her own will to meet up with AA that night. Maybe she was, but it is just as likely that she knew him and trusted him enough to go hang out with him. And if she did, there’s nothing wrong with her choice to do so. It only went wrong because of HIS actions once they were together.

I just want people to see that it can actually be just fine for a grown woman to choose to meet up with a man at any time of day, and that it doesn’t have to mean she was forced to be there, and it doesn’t have to mean she was dumb or trashy and made bad decisions. Does that make sense?

I want people to be more open minded, I guess. I think some people feel that if they believe Kenzie chose to meet up with him voluntarily then that means they are blaming the victim, but that’s not what it is at all. Both things can exist: she made a choice to meet him, and she is still blameless in the end result, because she had no way of knowing what evil awaited her.

Obviously no one knows yet what happened. Maybe he did coerce her somehow.
Well said. It’s a “both/and” situation and not “either/or.” Adds more flexibility when exploring possible reasons that led to the outcome.
 
My post was not intended to discredit LE- who’ve done amazing investigative work. My post was intended to credit the friends of ML who also did a great job. They knew Mackenzie had encountered danger immediately. I think pressure from MSM always helps. MOO.

I agree that her friends have done and are doing a wonderful job. I didn’t intend to discredit them, either. :)

Just that, although we were a bit impatient at the time, LE had everything they needed.
 
MOO younger people use DM (direct message) mode to communicate by texts within their preferred apps. Like private messaging here. So it is texts, but not through the phone service.

This is true. But IIRC, when police went to try and get ML's phone records (because her parents didn't have access/she had her own plan/she kept her passwords to herself), they got her actual phone records (and then closed in on AA fairly quickly). They would not have had immediately access to what apps were on her phone. They would not even know what apps were on her phone unless they had access to her google or apple account information (even then, most people's apps would not show up - you'd need the actual phone). Instagram, obviously, is linked to FB. AFAIK, it was when they looked at AA's phone that they saw (what they knew from a simple SM search) to be her Tinder pictures. THey would have needed a separate warrant to access all her other apps (by now they've probably done that).
 
If the evidence shows AA killed her,
burned her, buried her, the following is true: It does not matter
which person arranged the meeting details. In the same vein, it does not matter if Kenzie was a SB, a waitress at IHOP, or a kindergarten
teacher. This is about the slaughter
of a young woman. Period!

Whilst I don't wish to argue with you, you're incorrect when it comes to the court.
Common law is removed from emotion. It has to be that way to be impartial.
It will matter very much who ML was as a person. It will matter who AA is as a person.
Everything is looked at as a progression of facts. That helps to determine what AA was culpable of, if anything. You may feel he's guilty and deserves the death penalty, but there are certain qualifications that the court must hit to call for that.
Nothing that could be bought up would ever mean that ML deserved to be murdered - establishing a progression of facts isn't interchangeable with blame.
But how the situation occurred matters very much, regardless of how much anger people feel about the loss of MacKenzie.
The court has to consider a myriad of things ;
Was it intentional? Yes? Then AA is culpable of X and will be sentenced accordingly.
No? Then AA can plead Y and will be punished at a suitable level.
Was there a level of planning? Was it in the heat of the moment? Did he panic after the fact and cover the murder up? Was it self defense?

Whilst I'm not even vaguely inferring it was self defense, these things all have to be considered.
What lead up to it, what relationship they had, what expectations either had for the evening, what lead them to be at that place in time, how it progressed to MacKenzie losing her life etc
Everyone can sit at home and make up their mind that someone is guilty, but proving it in a court of law, then taking into account the individuals involved and their state of mind and level of expected responsibility is, isn't remotely the same.

It's understandable to want justice for a murder victim, it's understandable to want it regardless of what occurred, but 1st world legal systems thankfully are more involved than what people feel.

As I said, things will come out in court that relate directly to how the situation came to be, that people will find unpalatable. The court discussing those things do not in any way translate to blaming MacKenzie for her death. I'm not speaking about the SB thing either. I'm speaking of why she met up with him in the first place.
The defense will capitalise on the sensationalism of it, because their job is to defend AA. Prosecution will perhaps use AA's background as evidence that he had some level of premeditation. Both sides will use the other individuals lifestyle as contributing factors to prove their case.
The court however, relies on people taking off their emotional lenses and putting on their factual ones for impartiality.
 
Keep in mind her sorority sisters were the most vocal out of everyone in this case. Her friends and sorority sisters were responsible for getting this to the media because when she was first reported missing there were minor articles and no one was picking it up. Her sorority sisters organized the Facebook page and various other social media to find her, organized flier distribution events when she first went missing in SLC, held a press conference, have done multiple news interviews and podcasts, organized vigils, and put their lives on hold to help find her. They also attended his most recent court date and have started a non profit foundation in her honor.

I know many active in the thread are new here and haven't been here since the beginning so I just like to reiterate this.
Amen!
 
It was likely AA’s suggestion for her to not take a Lyft all the way to his house. He didn’t want her to have the address beforehand, or it to be on the Lyft account in case he wasn’t able to get her phone shut off right away.

Sure, it was 3am Utah time, but it was 2am back in California. She’d been in airports all night, might not have had the chance to eat, and maybe he offered to take her to eat at a 24hr diner.
IMO she could have thrown her luggage in the trunk and hopped in a dark car and things got weird. The car was moving so she wouldn’t be able to escape.
I don’t think they had ever met before because as I’m sure we can all agree, he doesn’t look like those photos....
 
It could be as simple as getting a bite to eat-does Utah have diners? They could have been friends, or more than friends. There are plenty of instances where young, and old, people make bad choices with the company they choose to keep. People can be very naive when it comes to danger signs. Myself included. I don’t think anyone expects to be murdered by an acquaintance of any type.
 
It was likely AA’s suggestion for her to not take a Lyft all the way to his house. He didn’t want her to have the address beforehand, or it to be on the Lyft account in case he wasn’t able to get her phone shut off right away.

Sure, it was 3am Utah time, but it was 2am back in California. She’d been in airports all night, might not have had the chance to eat, and maybe he offered to take her to eat at a 24hr diner.
IMO she could have thrown her luggage in the trunk and hopped in a dark car and things got weird. The car was moving so she wouldn’t be able to escape.
I don’t think they had ever met before because as I’m sure we can all agree, he doesn’t look like those photos....

I don’t know if they have met, but it would be strange if they never FaceTimed, at least.
 
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Ashley Moser on Twitter (Video)
#BREAKING @nslchat city council votes to replace “dummy” cameras with real ones after friends of #MackenzieLueck voice security concerns. The full story at 10:00 @KSL5TV
8:29 PM - 16 Jul 2019
That city council were dummies for having dummy cameras in the first place. How Ridiculous when you can get them so cheap. Everyone knows bad stuff happens in parks. LE could have had some answers quickly if these politicians weren’t so cheap with tax payers money. I can guarantee they make good salaries and retirement benefits. Better late then never.

I commend KL’s friends for everything their doing. Amazing friends.
 
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