Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #42

[purpleandgreen]

I’d be upset too if I thought the inquest into my son’s disappearance was only going to end up as a cold case where people eventually forget about a little boy lost. She is in a position to know how the investigation is progressing, if at all, if she takes the time and trouble to contact investigators — which I’m sure she will be doing at every opportunity. She is a mother fighting for her child and, as she said, she will never, ever, give up on William. Better that than be ineffectual and whinge about what his disappearance has done to her.

Yes, Bo. She's certainly not self focused, and never has been. A very dignified lady with thought only for her beloved lost little boy.

 

[2cents2]

I am fully aware of the CLEARED aspect but inquest testimony as reported by media repesentatives raises a conflict for me. I am only discussing TIMELINE....with NO inferences against any foster family members (FFC MFC FGM) from my perspective.

It is a highly relevant discussion topic from my perspective to try and figure out who drove the 4wd drive out of Benaroon Drive at 10.30 and the timeline of that tragic morning.

My participation here is about dear sweet William ....does anything else really matter?

<modsnip: Discuss the case and not other members.>

It just so happened the media articles in Sept 2015 were published way after the information was initially released clearing the foster and bio families and that is a standing fact that cannot be denied from my personal observation.

It is a real conflict and compounding quandary to me to then learn from the FFC's own words as reported by media direct from 1st tranche of inquest and for the first time revealing that FFC had driven out Benaroon and along Batar Creek Rd at some stage on the day close to William's disappearance.

It could well be if the person was FFC driving this 4wd the vehicle may have been fitted with front and rear cctv cameras and FFC had operated such cameras and had driven out not ownly to physically search for William in the hope of physically rescuing him and calming his anguish but in a vain attempt to capture footage of any vehicles or persons she may have observed.

No mention of the time of this journey reported by the attending media reps.

If the time was mentioned during FFC testimony why would media withhold that information?

Another point I then consider is if FFC had her mobile phone with her during this journey and given the reported reception problems in that general area, would there still be cell tower pings and triangulations?

I have considered if she did drive the family's 4wd or FGM's vehicle and either was the latest model with whizbang technologies the electronic system of any onboard devices would record GPS locator tracking via satellite services which are not normally interrupted by reception problems experienced by mobile phone telco users.

I am told such technology is also capable of revealing epoch equation datum....basically beginning to end of a function or action or course of events and that these electronic readings can be discovered by forensic investigations.

Google earth uses such epoch based systems to calculate distance travel vs time. Electronic 'road mapping' devices installed in vehicles use epoch based systems.

The media reports and discussions by Fcarers in current podcasts give a very loose timeline. Paraphrased from my understanding...

Family arise on morning of 12th...police release detail in Sept 2015 and onwards, at approx 7am she observed 2 cars parked on street (now known to be adjacent to Sharpley residence and no 35)....family had breakfast etc ....MFC departed at approx 9am. FFC had said previously she observed the 2 vehicles at 9am (same location as above?). Did MFC also observe these vehicles; he had driven passed the parking location exiting 48 to commence his journey?

Note Sharpley testified she left her residence at 8.40am and did not observe 2 vehicles which were observed by FFC and police illustration shows vehicles to have been parked on road adjacent to the eastern boundary of her property driveway. Google earth view shows her view from her driveway on entering Benaroon would not be obstructed. FFC said previously she had observed the vehicles between 7 and 9.

FFC has said previously when she was playing with William and putting him into a climbing tree she had observed the vehicles still parked. (what time was this? Did she and the children go outside to farewell MFC and that was when she observed the vehicles at 9am the tine MFC departed ?)

Timeline .....MFC left 48 Benaroon at approx 9am and his presence in Lakewood area (verified by eyeball witnesses/receipts/cell tower pings/skype call (would pings verify exact on the ground foot print location or general area where pings triangulated?)(what would be area /distance boundary of ping triangulation?)(verification of exact feet on ground location Skype call made or that call was made within ping boundary area, of verified thaf skype was actually made?)...MFC travels to Kendall township stops and purchase a newspaper (witnesses/electronic of cash register transaction? Mobile tower pings...boundaries?). Sends text using electronic suri service (satellite or telco ?)....back in 5 minutes. It is said he arrived back at 10.30.

After MFC departs approx 9am.......(note this is time she said previously she had observed 2 cars).... FFC phones Spedding using FGM landline at 9.03am and leaves message (Craddock and FFC testimony verified)... then playing with William and female sibling with their bicycles on driveway (which driveway and time?)....then separately playing with female sibling with bicycle on driveway (which driveway, (time) (where was William at this time as he was not mentioned by media reports) and sibling and FFC observe teal vehicle (FFC testimony....not verifiable ....vehicle not located...driver not located....time?).....then FFC playing 'mummy/daddy tiger' games with William in garden and placing William in 'climbing tree' (where was sibling which tree? time?). FFC takes 5 photos using digital camera (FFC previously said 3) on back deck area between 9.15 (2014 media articles and posted on WS early threads) William goes off playing roaring tiger games again by himself....FFC goes inside to make tea with FGM and they sit on small rear deck area (time - where is sibling after photos taken?)....William is not heard and FFC commences searching inside house and garden area....MFC sends text using Suri onboard electronic system advising back in 5 minutes....he returns approx 10.30....FFC asks him if William is with him...no.....he races off searching .... at this point we are not told what FFC does and for how long.....then FFC is observed by Sharpley and is told William is missing.....she helps out and starts searching.....000 called at 10.56am....FFC indicated 'we' had searched for 15/20 minutes. Note 15 minutes would push back to say 10.40. 20 minutes would push back to about 10.35. MFC s saud ti have returned at 10.30. There is a 5 minute window. Could this be the time FFC drive down Batar Creek Rd?

Police responder arrived on scene 6 minutes after call....meets FFC in street (she had previously said she was standing at location where she had observed 2 vehicles parked ....1st responder enters 48 and comes across MFC exiting bathroom in distressed state...1st responder informs MFC he will search house....MFC exits and calls out 'William'.

In podcast the narrator includes detail from 1st responder statement. It was not detailed that FFC went inside 48 house with him. Was this because she had driven to Batar Creek Rd at this time?

No inferences just TIMELINE!

Note from time 1st responder arrived detail is included in podcast 4. Media links have been continually posted on WS threads.

Would anybody be willing to assist getting a 'no discussion' thread going where only (date ordered) links to articles from media, documentaries, interviews, podcasts etc from 12 September onwards permitted under WS ToS are archived?

Each link with a reference number and brief paraphrase summary with no personal comment.

I am certain a link archive would make life so much easier for all contributors and future contributors.

Prepared with our love and support for dear sweet adorable William

This wikipedia article has valid information and various article links.

<modsnip: Discuss the case and not other members.>

A ’no discussion' thread re: the timeline does sound helpful. I am new to WS and have no idea about how to progress this. How are you currently storing the timeline information yourself, in a google document or word or notebook?

I have a recollection, from a long time ago, that the FFC took the pictures of the kids to send to the MFC, not sure if she actually did that (or if it’s even true?) and I don’t think this was mentioned in the podcast. If she sent them to FFC and he received them, they’d know what mobile tower he was near when received which would be an extra data point to add to the timeline.

 

[Bohemian]

Australia - William Tyrrell MEDIA/TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[2cents2]

Terribly saddened Gary was treated this way fully expected given the seriousness of the allegations currently subject of the upcoming Court proceedings.

It seems to me that MFC is never quoted in the media in support of Gary. FFC is the one always quoted.

In the latest episode of 10’s podcast, the Foster Parents speak about Gary Jubelin at approximately 18, 21 and 49 minutes - in all cases, it’s usually the FFC talking with the MFC in the background agreeing or adding specific details. I take it as the FFC is more comfortable speaking (at least to the journalist) but she is talking on their behalf and they are in agreement in their support of Jubelin.

 

[sleepinoz]

RSBM

I have a recollection, from a long time ago, that the FFC took the pictures of the kids to send to the MFC, not sure if she actually did that (or if it’s even true?) and I don’t think this was mentioned in the podcast. If she sent them to FFC and he received them, they’d know what mobile tower he was near when received which would be an extra data point to add to the timeline.

I don't think the FFC has ever said she was taking the photo's for MFC. It was said at the Inquest that she was doing a Photo book and always carries her camera with her.

 

[2cents2]

I don't think the FFC has ever said she was taking the photo's for MFC. It was said at the Inquest that she was doing a Photo book and always carries her camera with her.

Thank you for this detail, if it wasn't mentioned in the inquest then I'm sure it didn't happen. But I swear I read it a few years ago. I'll go and have a dig around for it online but I think it might be a false memory!

 

[sosocurious]

The full interview and other explosive allegations against senior members of the NSW Police Force will be aired in the Where’s William Tyrrell? podcast episodes six and seven, released on Monday.

'It’s Disgusting': William Tyrrell’s Foster Parents Slam Police

Wow - will anyone else be sent to an empty office for months while an investigation is underway?

 

[papertrail]

She is "angry" at NSW Police because they are only working towards the Inquest and NOT investigating. I suppose one could take that as being against, but she wants them to Investigate so I don't think she is against them. She didn't say she was against the Inquest.

FFC does not know what police investigators are doing covertly.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Thank you for this detail, if it wasn't mentioned in the inquest then I'm sure it didn't happen. But I swear I read it a few years ago. I'll go and have a dig around for it online but I think it might be a false memory!

Nor necessarily a false memory either. There's been a lot of inaccurate & conflicting reporting on this whole case.

 

[papertrail]

Thank you for this detail, if it wasn't mentioned in the inquest then I'm sure it didn't happen. But I swear I read it a few years ago. I'll go and have a dig around for it online but I think it might be a false memory!

FFC stated in documentaries and at inquest that she had taken photos that morning to include in what I call 'life albums'...can't think of FFC terminology.

Previously on WS I raised the issue of shadows in the Spider-Man photo not being correct accordingly to the time reported in the media (9.15am) it was captured. There is a sun shadow application designed by scientists online that can be used. It turned out from information divulged at 1st tranche of inquest FFC had taken 5 photos not e as oreviously advised in media with the latest being about 9.50am on the 12th.... from memory. therefore if the photo that was used had been captured after 9.30am and not 9.15am the shadows would be correct. Everyone jumped on me accusing me of inferring against the FFC with some sort of accusation the photo had been taken some other day...which I had not. As it turns out my discussion on shadows would be correct. Too many false conclusions are made about discussion points raised ....possibly through emotions and concern for dear sweet William and this does derail discussion at times.

 

[papertrail]

The full interview and other explosive allegations against senior members of the NSW Police Force will be aired in the Where’s William Tyrrell? podcast episodes six and seven, released on Monday.

'It’s Disgusting': William Tyrrell’s Foster Parents Slam Police

Wow - will anyone else be sent to an empty office for months while an investigation is underway?

I am aware of a case where someone attended work for nearly three years in a similar manner whilst their accuser sat in an office next door. As it turned out the accuser ended up on the other side of the law and received a conviction for falsifying evidence and corruption charges.

Terrible treatment to endure and very difficult to overcome for one accused.

 

[JLZ]

FFC stated in documentaries and at inquest that she had taken photos that morning to include in what I call 'life albums'...can't think of FFC terminology.

Previously on WS I raised the issue of shadows in the Spider-Man photo not being correct accordingly to the time reported in the media (9.15am) it was captured. There is a sun shadow application designed by scientists online that can be used. It turned out from information divulged at 1st tranche of inquest FFC had taken 5 photos not e as oreviously advised in media with the latest being about 9.50am on the 12th.... from memory. therefore if the photo that was used had been captured after 9.30am and not 9.15am the shadows would be correct. Everyone jumped on me accusing me of inferring against the FFC with some sort of accusation the photo had been taken some other day...which I had not. As it turns out my discussion on shadows would be correct. Too many false conclusions are made about discussion points raised ....possibly through emotions and concern for dear sweet William and this does derail discussion at times.

I don't remember 9:15 ever being alleged. I think it was 9:45 or 9:43, and now it turns out some of the photos were earlier than that (9:30-something). Also, I can't conceive that you can distinguish the time of a shadow, very weak short shadows at that, to within 20 minutes with the sun-shadow application you linked, and I certainly didn't understand from your comments that that was the order of difference you were talking about. More like several hours.

 

[sosocurious]

The new head of the investigation into missing boy William Tyrrell had never worked on the five-year-old case before he took it over in January.

Detective David Laidlaw is one of the State’s most experienced detectives, but The Australian has been told he had never touched the Tyrrell file, and starts from scratch.

That can be a good thing in policing as old biases and dead leads are swept away.

But it’s indicative, too, of the toxic atmosphere within NSW Homicide, with relations between the old boss, Mick Willing, who was recently promoted; the current homicide squad commander, Scott Cook; and the old head of the Tyrrell investigation, Gary Jubelin, who is facing criminal charges, stretched well past breaking point.

It has resulted in a surreal situation where Mr Jubelin has briefed the NSW acting state coroner, Harriet Grahame, on an inquiry over which he’s now been charged; but not the lead detective, who must now run the case.

NoCookies | The Australian
William Tyrrell podcast: Secrecy in search for a little boy lost

 

[sosocurious]

The podcast will unfold over the next few months, with the launch of each episode scheduled for 3pm on Fridays

NoCookies | The Australian
William Tyrrell podcast: Secrecy in search for a little boy lost

Podcast one is in the article.

 

[2cents2]

Great points Frogwell.

Yes, it seems the MFC arrival home was something the kids always looked forward to so I can definitely imagine William waiting in the driveway for him, maybe he heard something and ventured around to see. Especially if, like you said, they parked in the lower driveway.

Okay, I've found a reference from the inquest to what you said about the children growing restless and then going to see if they could see the MFC's car.

“(FFC) told the court that William had been “getting very bored” just before he vanished and they were waiting for his foster father to return from the nearby town of Laurieton.

She had been expecting her husband to return from a visit to the chemist and a telephone conference meeting between 10.15am and 10.30am that morning.

“William’s sister was still drawing,” she said.

“He was getting very bored with the game. He was running up and down.

“I said to William (and his sister) ‘you know what? Why don’t we go down and see if Daddy’s car is here yet’.” (ref: William Tyrrell’s foster mum heard a 'high-pitched' scream while searching)

The FFC says “down" (as bolded by me above) which makes me think she’s referring to the lower driveway?

Also, she says this was "just before he vanished" which really does seem to give a legit reason as to why he may wander.

Just saw something I hadn't read before - another reason it's possible William headed around to the driveway. As we already know, he loved greeting his Dad when he arrived home, he also:

'William used to help his Daddy “park the car” as well.'

Ref: http://www.whereswilliam.org/about-william

 

[sosocurious]

from the podcast 12:58
Police attention would later shift to neighbour Paul Savage. He was home alone. His wife Heather was at Bingo.
He told police he went into the bush to look for William. He got lost and found his way out one of the back tracks about 2 hours later.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[purpleandgreen]

The podcast will unfold over the next few months, with the launch of each episode scheduled for 3pm on Fridays

NoCookies | The Australian
William Tyrrell podcast: Secrecy in search for a little boy lost

Podcast one is in the article.

'Six hundred names made it onto the list of persons of interest.

There have been 2800 calls to Crime Stoppers from members of the public and more than 1000 calls related to possible sightings of William. Each of the calls is logged and followed up, which has led to more than 11,000 pieces of information that police are sifting through.'

That's staggering! Let's just hope those magic pieces that fit together are there.

 

[purpleandgreen]

from the podcast 12:58
Police attention would later shift to neighbour Paul Savage. He was home alone. His wife Heather was at Bingo.
He told police he went into the bush to look for William. He got lost and found his way out one of the back tracks about 2 hours later.

NoCookies | The Australian

BBM. I wonder why, soso. What did they know about him? Why were they suspicious? Why wasn't he just another neighbour / local who helped them search?

 

[JLZ]

from the podcast 12:58
Police attention would later shift to neighbour Paul Savage. He was home alone. His wife Heather was at Bingo.
He told police he went into the bush to look for William. He got lost and found his way out one of the back tracks about 2 hours later.

NoCookies | The Australian

Meaning he was home alone during the search period or also when William went missing? Does this exclude Heather being the wife said to have driven out at almost exactly the time of the disappearance?

Got lost, really? When he went for a walk that way nearly every day?

 

[sosocurious]

Meaning he was home alone during the search period or also when William went missing? Does this exclude Heather being the wife said to have driven out at almost exactly the time of the disappearance?

Got lost, really? When he went for a walk that way nearly every day?

I guess that depends on what time housie started. He told the police he got lost in the bush for about 2 hours.
He was home at about 11;30 when AMS knocked on the door and he came out a went up the hill looking for William.
Was it about 1pm that his brother-in-law arrived and he was standing on a hill in his flanno and trackies?
So how does the two hours fit in. Maybe he was a bit out with his timing.