ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #31

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oceanverde said:
Believing everything Klein has put out is your first mistake.
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Bowerman said it too, so there goes that theory (BBM):

Bowerman also noted that Kunz Sr. and Mitchell were given multiple polygraph tests over the course of the investigation. Though the results came back as inconclusive, the sheriff said that the parents consistently failed on the questions asking whether they knew anything about DeOrr’s disappearance and whether they knew where DeOrr was located.

“One of the FBI’s top polygraph experts told us, ‘these folks are not being truthful,’” Bowerman said.

Investigator to DeOrr Kunz’s parents: 'The truth will come out'
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One of the first searchers was interviewed, it sounds like he was there for several days. He said something seemed "off." David Marshburn was interviewed, he vaguely described what happened when he visited the campsite with his dogs. Vernal has theories and possible answers that he can't divulge and wants people to bear with him for now. Jessica explained why she gave her ex "more custody" of her two other children. Jessica also threw Isaac under the bus. Isaac was drinking, after all, but so was Vernal, but Vernal started drinking only after DeOrr vanished. Isaac had nothing new to say, he just seemed nervous and scared, and doesn't want to "point fingers at anyone because it's not right."

KTVB Special Report: DeOrr Kunz Jr.'s parents speak candidly about their son's disappearance
 
renarde said:
Vernal has theories and possible answers that he can't divulge and wants people to bear with him for now.
KTVB Special Report: DeOrr Kunz Jr.'s parents speak candidly about their son's disappearance
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...Of course he does.

So did OJ Simpson.

So Vernal thinks he is now a detective?

Somebody should ask Mark Klass or a similar type parent what they think of parents worried about a missing child, who would sit around hoarding "secret" theories about the child's disappearance, without actually voicing them to law enforcement or any one of two private detectives; both of whom coincidentally came to the same conclusions.

I don't think it would be a very nice response.
 
Of course he isn't hiding them from law enforcement. It's obvious that he's referring to the answers he thinks he got from the DM search.
 
Ok so Vernal says in the beginning of the KTVB Video that “no one was drinking or doing drugs”, but then it’s...Vernal started drinking only after Deorr went missing? Which is it? And why the story change? If your child goes missing you would remember every detail. The truth doesn’t waver because you’re tired. Something stinks IMO.
 
renarde said:
One of the first searchers was interviewed, it sounds like he was there for several days. He said something seemed "off." David Marshburn was interviewed, he vaguely described what happened when he visited the campsite with his dogs. Vernal has theories and possible answers that he can't divulge and wants people to bear with him for now. Jessica explained why she gave her ex "more custody" of her two other children. Jessica also threw Isaac under the bus. Isaac was drinking, after all, but so was Vernal, but Vernal started drinking only after DeOrr vanished. Isaac had nothing new to say, he just seemed nervous and scared, and doesn't want to "point fingers at anyone because it's not right."

KTVB Special Report: DeOrr Kunz Jr.'s parents speak candidly about their son's disappearance
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Haha...more custody...that’s a good one. Technically it’s true...she has no custody and he has all of it, so it’s “more”, right?! Lol.

Here’s the thing about them blaming Isaac:

1. They were WITH Isaac when DeOrr supposedly disappeared!

2. Isaac never left the campground, according to ALL of them. So what did he do with DeOrr when search after search hasn’t found him? If he had buried him where the supposed “remains” were “found” by DM, there would have been a fresh grave right there at the campsite while literally hundreds of people were searching it. How did they miss that?

3. Who did leave the campground? Vernal & Jessica, that’s who. And *every* witness that they said saw and interacted with DeOrr in Leadore had said they NEVER saw the little boy. They literally made up interactions that never happened. Why??

IIRC, they couldn’t even get their story straight about who cooked breakfast, what they are, and when they ate it.

They haven’t made any effort to actually search for DeOrr other than going back to the campground right at first. They’ve lied to law enforcement, and as of now three private investigators. I’m clinging to the hope that DM is playing them and pretending to believe them in order to get close and find out what really happened. He saw through Emily Glass (no pun intended) so it’s hard to believe he’d be foolish enough to believe these two.
 
oceanverde said:
The parents are concerned about what people are saying about them? Of course they are human and they were ASKED the questions and responded. You are not seeing the fully uncut interview. I don't think it's unusual at all. In fact, this just confirmed to me that my belief in them is not unfounded.

I hate that this suggests there are only 3 theories. A fourth and most reasonable theory is that he really did wander off and he hasn't been found yet. (Unless DM's dog really did hit on his remains).
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How do you suppose he wandered off and buried himself, if those remains are him?
 
Did you miss the "Unless DM's dog really did hit on his remains"?

We have very few details about what was found though and it is possible to me so far that he drowned in the water and became buried by items in the body of water naturally.
 
oceanverde said:
Did you miss the "Unless DM's dog really did hit on his remains"?

We have very few details about what was found though and it is possible to me so far that he drowned in the water and became buried by items in the body of water naturally.
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Yes , I agree , and in one of the recent interviews the question was asked why the cadaver dog is hitting in a different spot now rather than the hit during the early search years ago ......... the answer was that the water itself would transport some of the smell downstream and could confuse the dogs.

My point is this ..... it definitely sounds like the cadaver dogs are indicating remains are in water .... which could also mean he did just wander off and drown
 
Arnie M said:
Yes , I agree , and in one of the recent interviews the question was asked why the cadaver dog is hitting in a different spot now rather than the hit during the early search years ago ......... the answer was that the water itself would transport some of the smell downstream and could confuse the dogs.

My point is this ..... it definitely sounds like the cadaver dogs are indicating remains are in water .... which could also mean he did just wander off and drown
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I agree - I believe when the dogs hit at reservoir the first time was right - but they (LE) blamed it on the lady that scattered the remains in there. And the smell - as you say, transported that smell downstream.
 
Renarde, thanks for posting the KTVB videos; I didn't realize there was going to be a second one. I wonder if there will be more?

IMO
Just because lie detector tests are not admissible in court doesn't mean they don't have value. They are a tool. The results don't tell you everything, but they tell you something. Think of the school nurse screening your child's vision at school. If your child fails the screening, it doesn't necessarily mean they need glasses. It's a red flag that means you should have your child's vision tested. Think of the polygraph as a screener, not a test. It can be a red flag.

IMO, Jessica and Vernal have improved their patter a bit, but not enough to hide that they are lying. Vernal continues with his "just keep talking and talking" method, believing that words, any words, are better than pauses.
Jessica thinks that she has learned enough about her mistakes in the past when lying, but she just can't keep the smirks and grins off her face.
All based on my judgement.

Could Deorr Jr. have fallen in the water and drowned? He could have, if his parents were being irresponsible and not watching him. (I don't consider asking GGP to watch him as being responsible.) And if he did drown, they would have pulled him from the water and would have reported that that's what happened.
Think of how long it would have taken him to walk to the reservoir! And would he even do that? TBC talked about how clingy he was, he was not a child who was at an independent stage and liked to run away from adults in that setting.
If he was in the reservoir he would have been found. Little children who drown in lakes, rivers, reservoirs, and creeks are found.
Remember the topography of the campground area? The creek was down from the campsite, down an embankment. And if he had drowned in the creek, he would not still be there! Hidden by items in the water? No. The searchers tore the creek up. They tore it up so much that LE mentioned they would have to answer to environmental agencies. I recall some were on their hands and knees searching.
Can anyone cite any instances of a little child drowning in a creek or lake and not being recovered? Maybe in the ocean, but not otherwise. I can cite any number of stories, including recently in Idaho, where children have drowned in much larger bodies of water and they have been recovered.
If the baby's remains ended up in the creek or reservoir, it's because they were put there by the parents or helpers later, after the main searches were over.

The point about the parents worrying about what people are saying about them is not that they are, but that that is their OVERWHELMING concern, more important than anything else, from the beginning.

These parents are lying. They know what happened.

JMO
 
There have been plenty of cases where people disappeared in a heavily wooded area and were found years later. And even those that had bodies of water nearby. Adults included. I don't think what people are saying about them is their overwhelming concern at all - people focus on that because they are ASKED about it every time - in every interview they do, they get asked.

I'd like to think I wouldn't care if people were calling me a murderer if I didn't do it but after a while, I bet it would get to me. The fact is, you don't know, nor do I, what it is like for the parents at all at the beginning or now. Nobody can.

I choose to focus on the fact that he hasn't been found yet and THAT is what matters. Everything that comes after is all secondary. If they turn out to be guilty, either of failing to report a death or actual homicide, then I hope justice is swift for that little boy. But, nothing at this point is overwhelming in that direction.
 
oceanverde said:
But, nothing at this point is overwhelming in that direction.
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You're right. Apart from all the lying, changing stories, failing polygraphs, and gaining the mistrust of the police chief and the two PI's that they themselves hired... apart from those little hiccups I reckon most people would think/hope DeOrr just wandered off.

I choose to hear what the professionals who have dealt with the parents think. And what I'm hearing, almost unanimously, is that they're guilty of knowing a damn sight more than they're letting on. Hence tens of thousands of posts to that effect. Ad nauseum.
 
The lead professional on the case (Penner) has not said anything of the sort. I trust him more than anyone else and I believe he is about finding the truth. In any investigation you can't focus on just one theory and he is doing it right.
 
oceanverde said:
The lead professional on the case (Penner) has not said anything of the sort. I trust him more than anyone else and I believe he is about finding the truth. In any investigation you can't focus on just one theory and he is doing it right.
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“We know that the parents aren’t telling the truth, and they know that we know that they’re lying,” Bowerman said. “I know that they know where the little boy is and what happened to him.”

I'm not saying they murdered DeOrr, but clearly there is something being withheld by someone, for some reason.
 
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