CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[Snoopster]

I have a dumb question about the dogs. Are they cadaver dogs in addition to SAR? Or are those normally different dogs?

I remember reading one of the links in a much earlier post and the woman heading the SAR team had a dog that was "dual trained". I presumed that meant SAR and cadavar, but I may be wrong.
(Don't have time to look for the link right now. Sorry.)

 

[PommyMommy]

BBM:

Now, that, I completely agree with...LE does not believe she was abducted.

What we don't know is whether or not LE believes she was in the area they're currently searching when she disappeared.

A thought has occurred to me about this search.

My thought relates to search warrants.

Presumably, LE would need to obtain warrants to get ping/electronic phone data from the service carrier for both RT's and BT's phones.

Especially given the fact that BT'S phone is/was not on her person when she went missing, what would LE need in order to convince a judge there was probable cause to get those records?

Maybe they need to show a judge they've searched high and low in the area RT says they were when she went missing, and that there's no sign of her anywhere, in order to get a judge to sign off on those warrants.

Stating the obvious: LE needs to track that phone data.

They need to know where and when those 2 phones pinged, and where and when those phones stayed stationary for any period of time.

I'm not convinced they have that info yet.

JMO.

Agree with you in theory, GK, but just wanted to point out that our VI said yesterday that BT doesn't have a cellphone. MOO

 

[Medstudies]

This case is just so peculiar.

I can’t explain it, but for whatever reason. I get the same vibe with this account that I get when I read something like “I last saw my baby when I put them to bed at 10pm and when I went in to check the next day at 11am, they were gone. And then I looked everywhere before I called police.”

It just does not ring true to me. But I sure hope I’m wrong, and I truly pray she is found. Not for him necessarily and certainly not for me, but because she deserves her life and liberty.

 

[10ofRods]

As a general rule, if there are herds of deer, or other large herbivores, then you may have mountain lions. If there isn’t a good supply of large herbivores, then you will only get an occasional mountain lion traveling through to better territory. (Even in places where mountain lions have established territories near human populations, attacks on humans are very rare.)

So, look at the vegetation and water supply and see if herds of deer seem likely.

No herds of deer out there. At all. And not many (or any) mountain lions (you do see their scar in nearby Joshua Tree, though). No large herbivores at all. That's one of the reasons Mojave Preserve exists, there are very few uses for that land (there was some kind of industrial concern not far from where she disappeared).

It's very sad.

There was a woman who disappeared out there in 2003 and a big search ensued. She showed up in Kingman, AZ 4 days later, having accepted a ride to get her out of that desert.

But...Barbara Thomas would surely have contacted her son by now. It's a very strange case. She was so close to the road (according to him) that it's unlikely she got lost trying to get back to the RV.

 

[Joe Friday]

Especially given the fact that BT'S phone is/was not on her person when she went missing, what would LE need in order to convince a judge there was probable cause to get those records?

SFSBM

LE "Ah Ya judge he showed deception on a polygraph test we gave him" Judge "OK here is your warrant"

 

[Stragnet]

SFSBM

LE "Ah Ya judge he showed deception on a polygraph test we gave him" Judge "OK here is your warrant"

She’s missing, period. Need nothing else.

 

[Joe Friday]

She’s missing, period. Need nothing else.

That doesn't give LE the right to search his cell phone records

 

[Steelslady]

She had sunglasses on in the photo of her in the hat and bikini but it hasn't been confirmed whether that photo was taken the day she disappeared. I wish LE would at least tell us that! I think it's reasonable to assume that anyone out there at that time of day would be wearing sunglasses, though. You're not over-thinking anything, IMO. MOO

I wish they would clarify that, too. Which makes me suspicious that they aren't clarifying it, know what I mean? I feel that if that photo was the last photo taken of Barbara, LE would have said so, so that the public or anyone hiking in that area around that time would know for a fact she was wearing those items of clothing and had the travel mug. Sometimes, I read between the lines of what is said to be fact versus someone else's account.

So let's just say she did have sunglasses on as well as the hat and travel mug- if someone is being abducted, I would think that out of fear, they would either try and fight with all their might to stop from being kidnapped, or at the very least, drop something to try to protect themself. Unless these abductors, if there are any, are extremely smart and made sure everything she wore and had in her possession (travel mug) came with them to leave no trace of her.

I wonder if any foot prints of hers was found, and if so, was it just hers alone walking away, or was there another set?

I just keep feeling that she wasn't there that day- as I said before, this just reminds me so much of the Roberta Snider case. I do hope and pray that I am wrong and she is found safe somewhere, or at the very least, found in that area they are searching. I really don't wish for another woman to be murdered by a spouse.

As far as them searching the desert area- again, referencing the Roberta Snider case- Philip said he dumped Bobbie's body in the Tennessee River. They had divers and searchers going through that area for several days, and Bobbie's body was never found, and she didn't die of cancer after all- he killed her before the trip and he went alone, concocted up a story and lead LE on a wild goose chase. I hope and pray that is not happening here, but I have concerns about this scenario, just from past cases.

There's no way she would be alive in that desert now.

 

[Steelslady]

Kinda odd RT didn't mention sunglasses tho. You would think it would be something else we'd be looking for.
ETA
Plus, I think BT looks younger in that bikini picture so I don't think that was taken that day, but rather a picture RT had to show that she dresses like that out in the desert.

I agree- that photo looks older to me as well. For all we know, her style of bikini could have changed if she bought a new one, and that may not be an accurate photo of the style of clothing she wore that day- perhaps similar.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I would assume ones that are on the other side of rocks, hills, bushes or shrubs, but I have never been to a desert so that's just an assumption. Imo

I live in the Mojave Desert. It is anything but flat. It has flat areas, but it also has buttes, canyons, large rock formations, Joshua trees , hills, inactive volcanoes and in some areas mountains.

 

[10ofRods]

information i now have suggests barbara has never had a cellphone. so suggestions it was in robbies bag are probably wrong.

also worth noting, a 360 photo and a panorama photo from a cellphone or digital camera are quite different.

Wow. That's really odd. So...they shared the phone? Because he certainly had one.

That means she walked the half mile or so toward the RV without phone or water - both were in RP's backpack. If she was, by then, experiencing early symptoms of heatstroke or other brain event, she could have wandered anywhere. Not a lot of places to conceal oneself out there and the RV would have been the major source of shade. She'd have to have been really disoriented.

If that one photo (Red Cap Photo) isn't time stamped on that day, that's major. Surely the police know that much and would have named him an actual POI by now (although it is SBSD - not to throw shade on them, but they have one of the largest areas and caseloads in the West - certainly the largest, square mile wise, in California).

 

[Ravenmoon]

Mountain Lion - Desert Wildlife

Mountain Lion
Puma concolor
Family: Felidae Order: Carnivora Class: Mammalia
DISTRIBUTION, ABUNDANCE, AND SEASONALITY

"Widespread, uncommon permanent resident, ranging from sea level to alpine meadows. Found in nearly all habitats, except xeric regions of the Mojave and Colorado deserts that do not support mule deer populations."

I live in the Mojave Desert . We are on a mesa that is between Joshua tree and Lucerne Valley . We have mountain lions. We have bob cats. We have deer.. but, they usually stay closer to the hilly areas. We also sit on the back end of Big Bear.. so we get an occasional Black Bear. I don't know if the animals are the same in the particular area that she went missing from.

 

[Steelslady]

She’s missing, period. Need nothing else.

I agree with you, but the law doesn't.

Would if he is innocent, and she took off on her own? Both his and Barbara's privacy would be invaded. For all we know (I would love to be true), Barbara might have left on her own free will and may not want to be found, for whatever reason. Do I believe that? No, but for now, until LE has a strong reason to suspect her husband doing harm to her and proves that she is not in that desert, no judge will grant this warrant for their phone records just because she is missing.

Frustrating, I know, but I also understand the law and how it protects our privacy, too, in case this scenario turns out differently than what some of us suspect happened here.

 

[K9Enzo]

I have a dumb question about the dogs. Are they cadaver dogs in addition to SAR? Or are those normally different dogs?

Not a dumb question at all!

IMO, they are probably using dogs certified in different disciplines. Air scent, trailing (given a scent article of the missing person) and HRD (human remains detection).

This appears to be a massive search and I'm sure they are rotating teams.

I cautioned members several pages back to not assume what the dogs did or did not alert to in regards of the missing person. We just don't know until LE makes a statement. Even if those statements are released, they are almost always still misinterpreted by Joe Public anyway.

 

[Steelslady]

I live in the Mojave Desert. It is anything but flat. It has flat areas, but it also has buttes, canyons, large rock formations, Joshua trees , hills, inactive volcanoes and in some areas mountains.

Thank you- I love a local who can give us an idea of the terrain. I have never been to the Mojave Desert and I live on the east coast, so our landscapes are quite different for sure. I appreciate this information.

 

[LaurieRaquel]

This is an amazing forum. I am so thankful for all of your thoughtfulness regarding my aunt Barbara. (She is married to my mom's brother.) I know her nephew is here as well. I am praying for your dad's health...I believe she was intending to fly out today to visit him. I'm so sad that isn't happening. We are still hoping and praying for answers in all of this! Keep thinking through every scenario, friends. It gives me hope.

 

[PommyMommy]

I remember reading one of the links in a much earlier post and the woman heading the SAR team had a dog that was "dual trained". I presumed that meant SAR and cadavar, but I may be wrong.
(Don't have time to look for the link right now. Sorry.)

West Valley SAR on Twitter
One of our WVSAR team members, Margo Machen, is dual trained and also serves our county as a K9 Search Dog Handler. Here she is shown in video with other highly trained search personnel. San Bernardino County Sheriff on Twitter
3:13 PM - 17 Jul 2019

More about the SBCSO's search dog team: Search and Rescue Dogs

 

[Joe Friday]

This is an amazing forum. I am so thankful for all of your thoughtfulness regarding my aunt Barbara. (She is married to my mom's brother.) I know her nephew is here as well. I am praying for your dad's health...I believe she was intending to fly out today to visit him. I'm so sad that isn't happening. We are still hoping and praying for answers in all of this! Keep thinking through every scenario, friends. It gives me hope.

Welcome to WebSleuths.

Hopefully you will become a verified member also so you can give us your inside information as well.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I live in the Mojave Desert . We are on a mesa that is between Joshua tree and Lucerne Valley . We have mountain lions. We have bob cats. We have deer.. but, they usually stay closer to the hilly areas. We also sit on the back end of Big Bear.. so we get an occasional Black Bear. I don't know if the animals are the same in the particular area that she went missing from.

It's really unlikely Barbara was attacked by a mountain lion. Mountain lions hunt when deers are most active, dusk to dawn. Having hit 5 deers on the highway at dusk, I'm now an frickin expert on when they are most active.

 

[Medstudies]

I wish they would clarify that, too. Which makes me suspicious that they aren't clarifying it, know what I mean? I feel that if that photo was the last photo taken of Barbara, LE would have said so, so that the public or anyone hiking in that area around that time would know for a fact she was wearing those items of clothing and had the travel mug. Sometimes, I read between the lines of what is said to be fact versus someone else's account.

So let's just say she did have sunglasses on as well as the hat and travel mug- if someone is being abducted, I would think that out of fear, they would either try and fight with all their might to stop from being kidnapped, or at the very least, drop something to try to protect themself. Unless these abductors, if there are any, are extremely smart and made sure everything she wore and had in her possession (travel mug) came with them to leave no trace of her.

I wonder if any foot prints of hers was found, and if so, was it just hers alone walking away, or was there another set?

I just keep feeling that she wasn't there that day- as I said before, this just reminds me so much of the Roberta Snider case. I do hope and pray that I am wrong and she is found safe somewhere, or at the very least, found in that area they are searching. I really don't wish for another woman to be murdered by a spouse.

As far as them searching the desert area- again, referencing the Roberta Snider case- Philip said he dumped Bobbie's body in the Tennessee River. They had divers and searchers going through that area for several days, and Bobbie's body was never found, and she didn't die of cancer after all- he killed her before the trip and he went alone, concocted up a story and lead LE on a wild goose chase. I hope and pray that is not happening here, but I have concerns about this scenario, just from past cases.

There's no way she would be alive in that desert now.

Everything. You. Said.

And I will be happy to admit I got it wrong in the event I’m wrong.