CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #7

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So...now I'm assuming that this pair probably didn't bring backpacker meals, and a stove. They're finding water pretty readily. If they're hungry enough to show up at a dump in broad daylight, I don't think they planned their rations properly. They must not even be very good at finding cabins and shacks with basic rations in them.

Perhaps that's their next plan (to try and find cabins). If so, they run a very real risk of just getting lost and dying out there.

I still think they may have been looking for something other than food if it was them.
It was raining and they could have been looking for something to cover with. They aren't going to find anything in the woods and if they knew where they were going, or even just happened upon it, they may have thought to check there.
 
I totally agree. And I was just regaling my poor DH about how I like the Canadian system so much better. Every effort should be made to bring perps to justice without a hail of bullets. Canada has the much better policies and I think those policies will prevail in this situation (I still don't think that these two have lots of ammo or even any real guns).

Of course I'd love to know if K&B are aware that suicide by cop is not as easy in Canada and also, whether the RCMP is, in this case, going to attempt to negotiate if they make sudden moves or bring out their pellet gun or pretend to have guns aimed at police. I'd hate to see this case bring in a new precedent for Canada.

Not that we don't have negotiation teams. I've actually observed a couple in action and they are quite common here, too. It's the non-manhunt events that usually result in suicide by cop here (person comes out of car with a supposed gun, gets annihilated by pointing at cops on the freeway, etc). In Oregon (another place where they try to avoid killing suspects), some suicidal people negotiate for hours and then come out of their hiding spot with their gun raised and pointed at a cop (whether loaded or not). That's been a common way of doing it. Suicidal suspects sometimes take a while to get to that "blaze of glory" point. Typically, though, the suspect is guilty of some pretty nefarious crimes in that situation and is dreading the impact on themselves and family. They're often older than this pair.

I think there's a good chance this pair will surrender. Somehow I don't think they are suicidal. When push comes to shove, when and if they are surrounded, they will surrender.

Interesting, your point of view. I sometimes think attempting to bring perps to justice here in Canada has become such a common practise that times when police are forced to shoot to protect their own lives or the lives of others, public opinion often viciously turns on them for firing their weapons.

In this case this manhunt in only occurring because the suspects fled from BC. Yet I notice a fair amount of criticism toward the RCMP who only are involved because the two made the choice to not voluntarily answer questions after their truck was found burned 2km away from a deceased person found at a roadside rest stop. The police are doing what we expect them to do, to maintain safety by capturing the wanted suspects.
 
So...a few questions for those familiar with remote First Nation communities:


Would they really have an actual dump truck up there?

How frequent is burning trash in barrels?

Do people have semi-permanent or permanent hunters' blinds?

Do people often have cabins or camps outside of town? For what purposes?

Do the locals have watercraft or mainly rely on the ferry?
 
If they're planning to go out in a blaze of (cowardly) glory...and civilians or LE are hurt or worse --- here's to hoping they instead encounter a grumpy bear , and it chases them into LE's arms.
Bothers me to think there could be more people like their three victims, just going about their business -- only to encounter this dangerous pair.
 
The interesting fact that came out of the news conference is that the rail line is 25km/15m from York Landing. Without a topo map, a compass and good map reading skills, there has to be a real question about whether they walked into York Landing.

The experienced, properly outfitted German canoeists, discussed in earlier posts, took 11 days to walk 115km/70m. Here, that works out to two days from the rail line.

There are trails, but apparently you have to know what you’re doing to use them.

The other possibilities are the two hour ferry and walking/boating up the Nelson River. Travel by boat would be against the current.

Its likely they have a map with them, or at least had one until the rav and possibly used it to plan. (split lake sighting reported a map)
rails and especially hydro lines are almost a direct route.
Locals say "difficult but possible"
 
Its likely they have a map with them, or at least had one until the rav and possibly used it to plan. (split lake sighting reported a map)
rails and especially hydro lines are almost a direct route.
Locals say "difficult but possible"

But why the end game of even heading to such an isolated area with one road in and where they would stick out like a sore thumb?
 
You posted your map last night, and it's only this morning that CBC is putting 2 and 2 together.

TBH I only even noticed them after you asked me to take a closer look at the winter roads
It had occurred to be a ahwhile before but I dismissed it. After finding a decent up close of the ground conditions under the lines when looking at winter roads I decided to entertain it again, then found their possible route and how long it could have taken them.

Personally I dont think they did follow the lines, but it seems more plausible than some theories that have been floated, imo
 
If the two individuals spotted near the dump are not BS and KM, then I'm getting more convinced that the teenagers are no longer in Manitoba...and have probably crossed Hudson Bay and are now in northern Ontario or northern Quebec.

Looking at the timeline posted on page 55 of this thread...I am just now making the connection that the RAV4 was found burned northeast of Gillam...putting the two young men even closer to Hudson Bay. If their ultimate aim was to leave the area, crossing the bay would be the most direct route, as opposed to going southwest, back into the thick of the wilderness.

Of course, a third option is that they are heading back toward their homes in BC.

Just my opinion on the options...but I find it mindboggling that two teenagers continue to evade the experienced personnel from the RCMP...unless they simply are no longer in the area being surveilled by the professionals.

I can't really fathom how these two would be able to cross Hudson's Bay. There are no ferries to slip onto or boats to steal from a marina.

The RAV4 may have been burned NE of Gillam, but it was also essentially at the end of the road. Their only option would have been to turn around with the vehicle and risk having it spotted. They had also only put in $20 of gas, so they might not have had enough to get back to a gas bar.

As it was also so close to the VAR Rail line from Gillam to Churchill, I was thinking they had either intended to catch the train, or walk along the tracks up into the outback from there. Another thought was that they had misread the map and thought the rail line to Churchill was actually a road.
 
If an unwashed body was 10 feet away you'd know. I opened the sliding glass door to the balcony and the smell was overwhelming instantly - a transient 25 feet away and 20 feet below my balcony was parked outside. He stunk up the neighborhood.

That presumes a good sense of smell! Mine is terrible. My nose is small and I am allergic to dogs yet have always lived with...more than one. Fortunately, DH is a super-smeller.

That is one smelly transient, though, to be sensed 25 feet away! The one time a bear walked through our camp, I couldn't smell him until he was about 5-6 feet from my head. He was pretty smelly.
 
So...a few questions for those familiar with remote First Nation communities:


Would they really have an actual dump truck up there?

How frequent is burning trash in barrels?

Do people have semi-permanent or permanent hunters' blinds?

Do people often have cabins or camps outside of town? For what purposes?

Do the locals have watercraft or mainly rely on the ferry?
They don't have a dump truck - residents bring their trash to the dump. Burning in barrels or fire pits would be whenever they wanted to, depending on the people. I'm not sure about the cabins and camps as they are already remote, but I haven't spent much time on a reserve.

edit: they wouldn't likely have their own planes and rely on the ferry.
 
I agree 100%. These guys are following some sort of path, not just walking aimlessly through the bush. I'd guess they'd be moving mostly at night, sleeping during the hot days.
agree w/ night movement.
BTW there are 2 small towns not far from York Landing- 1 is 18 mi. west and 1 is 17 mi. east.
wonder if that's where they're headed?
 
Misty, my issue isn't with the alleged discharging of firearms. It's that the RCMP showed up to conduct a life threatening manhunt with radios that evidently don't work.

To be clear, it's very possible that technology failed the RCMP--and not that the officers failed. Many factors to consider when deployed to remote area.

ETA: Also, I suspect they are using satellite system.

MOO
 
So...a few questions for those familiar with remote First Nation communities:


Would they really have an actual dump truck up there?

How frequent is burning trash in barrels?

Do people have semi-permanent or permanent hunters' blinds?

Do people often have cabins or camps outside of town? For what purposes?

Do the locals have watercraft or mainly rely on the ferry?
Good questions. Also, because most consumables are likely shipped in to the area, are commercial vehicles/trucks/tractor trailers being searched? Would someone be checking under tarps on the York Ferry yesterday?
 
Some survivalist sites swear that you can hide from police by finding a depression in the ground and putting a specific kind of plastic sheeting over it. They say that as long as you don't touch the sheeting, heat-seeking devices can't find you. See the rabbit holes this search has led us down!

So then, it's a question of how long they're willing to hide under a tarp or bush, likely needing to get water at some point. I think it's interesting the military are involved, they probably know tactical strategies related to laying seiges that suit the terrain.

So ridiculous, these two aren't even punks, they worked at Walmart!, but they've started their own private little terrorist campaign.

ETA: what I can't figure out is whether they intended to do it.
 
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