Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #8

[br0kenb1nary]

Initially, it appears that RCMP believed these two to be victims.

There appears to be very strong evidence that not only are they not victims, but they are in fact cold blooded killers.

These guys weren’t charged with second degree murder without evidence.

Understandably so, but a charge means absolutely nothing - it’s the conviction that counts. Meaning the evidence must prove without reasonable doubt- I am afraid they simply won’t have that IMO.

What they do have are two cocky teenagers who wish to glamorize warfare and utter threats to make themselves appear larger than they have been made to feel by their peers and families.

Again, IMO to play devils advocate and hopefully theorize this now defunct thread and return it to the concept of sleuthing.

 

[tcfpne]

There is a difference between burners and pre paid phones...is there not?

The difference is that a burner phone usually comes as a complete kit, with a device and plan. There might be no way to top it up once used, so you might as well toss it away.

Prepaid can be topped up by vouchers, credit cards, etc. But the registration address and every other important info can be fake when registering.
Problem is, prepaid phones are extremely common and with vouchers on hand you can buy all the data and voice connection you want and you could've paid cash for it.

 

[Xyzzia]

RCMP described the murders as "gun violence," NSW Detectives said they were shot.
A gun was used to shoot bullets into the first two victims. That resulted in their deaths.

"Two NSW homicide detectives will act as family liaisons after the son of one of the state’s top officers and his girlfriend were found dead along a Canadian highway.

They confirmed on Saturday that Fowler and his American girlfriend, Chynna Noelle Deese, were shot dead on Monday on the Alaska highway, 20km south of Liard Hot Springs, British Columbia."​

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

Again they were shot dead. It didn't say with bullets. Gun violence. Again no bullets were stated... So we don't really know And the police are not saying. It's all speculation

 

[Ruprect]

Why do people think they have cell phones, much less a connection?

I don't. Got the feeling they understand a few basics such as phones can be tracked and traced to locations. If they want to avoid capture I think it's a good bet that they have nothing electronic with them. I think they have basic camping gear and some survival gear including food... I believe they 'played' hide and seek in woods (I think one of their fathers mentioned something about this) near their home so that would work in their favour.

The question for me is, did they appreciate how difficult the terrain is, the insects etc.

There is still a chance they did find another vehicle and are far away from this location but that I think is a long shot as they still would have to have been seen by someone in the process.

 

[Trooper]

Thanks Troop, it's only lunch time and not only am I tired from reading about this all night AGAIN but I've got hardly any work done AGAIN. At least I look busy typing away at my desk so no one can really tell I'm lollygagging about on the interwebs haha

Me too, and if anyone checks my logs today I will be up for some explaining to do. We are trying to live in two separate and distinct worlds.. imagining the Canadian tundra and sniffing the eucalyptus bush here. No wonder we are discombobulated.

 

[Tee404]

The difference is that a burner phone usually comes as a complete kit, with a device and plan. There might be no way to top it up once used, so you might as well toss it away.

This is very interesting to me. I've always thought "burner phones" are what the US called Pre-Paid phones. Here in AU, we only have pre-paid phones - they can be recharged etc. As far as I am aware, we do not have "burner" phones that expire/can't be reused.

 

[Xyzzia]

Almost as if they might have arrived on that first Sunday and made a deal to sell the Rav for a couple hundred bux plus a free lift to Winnipeg and away they went with another driver. But while they were in transit, driver's mate back in Gillam finds out via the media who his/her buddy is helping. They know the police will soon be swarming their community. First thing to do would be to take the Rav back into the bush and torch the beast. Remember LE asked for anyone to step forward who may have "inadvertently" helped the accused or knew of such a situation? But these northern communities and very small, tough and inter-reliant, I'd think, with families have been linked for many generations and relationships with LE that have not always gone particularly well. Probably better to let trouble blow over and hope LE goes home, soon. As for the travellers to Winnipeg? If his connections back in Gillam were in touch, he could jettison his passengers anywhere along the road or, who knows, maybe stick to the deal. All just pure conjecture on my part.

And we don't know there are some First Nations people who have a problem with the government and white people. Just like there's some white people who have a problem with First Nations people. And some of those wounds cut really really deep and go back hundreds of years. So you don't know that a few First Nations people may not be wanting to help the RCMP. Everything is speculation.

 

[minn77]

Okay so I am ready to be totally hammered here, but I am going to throw out some random ideas I've been thinking - be nice..

PC's/Home Searches - Perhaps LE has found information either on the PC recovered from the burnt-out truck or from the suspect's homes that indicate plan at/around the Gillam region and that (as well as it being their last confirmed sighting) is why LE have been so heavily present there? LE just seem really hellbent on this area being crucial.

Murder of CD & LF - perhaps this was an opportunistic killing, or perhaps a robbery. I haven't decided my thoughts on this yet. But either way, they would have freaked out to some degree and just went hell for leather down the highway - fuelled on adrenlin and their "fight or flight" instincts. Everyone keeps asking why they would drive 7 hours then torch their comfortable camper.. but that is exactly what I would do in such a situation given that the camper was SO distinguishable (source: Redirect Notice) and may have contained evidence. Plus, they may have this mentality that "fire destroys everything - including all evidence".

Murder of LD - The suspect's vehicle was found burnt out around 1-2km from where LD's body was located. Now, given that LD was found on a small clearing area that slightly pulls out from the road (source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...vancouver-death-wreath-quietly-laid-1.5226788 and https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-killed-missing-alaska-highway-1.5220571), I would say that LD was pulled into this either sleeping or collecting samples for his botany teachings and the suspects have come across him and murdered him for his vehicle, especially once they've realised the gold mine of supplies he has with him (camping gear, maps, food etc). At this time, they have taken a vehicle each (one in the camper and one in LD's RAV4, and driven 2km's up the road and then torched their vehicle for the reasons in the above point. IF, now IF they had some sort of half assed plan that involved the north, they would have thought "well ****, we've come 7 hours back the wrong way, we have to keep on with the mission". Hence they've back tracked to continue on their northerly travels.

Maps - Perhaps with the RAV4 full of equipment, they did intend on continuing north for whatever plan they had, but being millenial gamers reared on GPS, they've possibly misinterpreted the maps and not realised that the road literally stops. At this point, they may have had little fuel or knew the RAV4 couldn't take them much further, so they've torched that for the very same reason. Evidence and the fact they were driving a dead mans car - the latter detail would become public eventually and the suspects would have known this. Now, I must stress that it is NOT confirmed that the RAV4 belonged to LD, however, this could be a detail LE are keeping closed in order to strengthen their case against the suspects.

Dump - I do not believe it was food they were after, I think they were after useful objects they could use for shelter, protection from wildlife etc. The terrain was probably worse than expected on their travels from Gillam so they may have not had enough supplies (given that they left some supplies in the RAV4 as LE confirmed there was camping gear burned inside it. Additionally, they may not have expected this degree of manhunt which perhaps made them ditch some of the items they were carrying (once they heard choppers etc) in their travels in order to move more swiftly.

The Terrain - I am NOT directly comparing the two, but the 84 elderly lady was found alive and well after needing to be cut out of the bushes after four days and nights (source: Missing 84-year-old Piney woman found safe). YES it was a little more south, YES she was an avid outdoorslady and YES it was four days and not seven BUT... these are two young healthy men who are wanting to evade and ellude LE. The old lass was WANTING to be found.

Just a bunch of thoughts rattling around in my head and at this point I am obsessed, delirious and can't make up my mind on whether they are alive, dead, smart, stupid, etc....

I agree with the map reading skills. Most people under the age of 22 dont know how to read a map correctly

 

[MassGuy]

Understandably so, but a charge means absolutely nothing - it’s the conviction that counts. Meaning the evidence must prove without reasonable doubt- I am afraid they simply won’t have that IMO.

What they do have are two cocky teenagers who wish to glamorize warfare and utter threats to make themselves appear larger than they have been made to feel by their peers and families.

Again, IMO to play devils advocate and hopefully theorize this now defunct thread and return it to the concept of sleuthing.

This isn’t a fiction story, one that we just make up as we go.

We could spend all night coming up with ridiculous scenarios in which these two are completely innocent of any crime.

I prefer to follow the facts.

To say that charges have been filed without evidence, is not only wrong, it is absolutely absurd.

We don’t know what they have, but a well respected law enforcement organization like the Mounties, doesn’t file charges for the sake of filing charges.

That requires evidence.

“Sleuthing” isn’t synonymous with “making stuff up.”

 

[steelybird]

Here I go, what? Mr. Favel isn’t the person who saw it, is he. Mr. Bighetty was the witness, and his brief video is quite the eye opener.

Mr. Favel does like talking to the press, though

Here you go is where it says the suspects bolted. I never said anything about it being Bighetty who said it, that was you. And fair enough then if they didn’t bolt or run away (bushes or not) did they just disintegrate then? Or are they still standing there?

 

[10ofRods]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that there are burner phones sold as a complete package, which is far more rare now here in Ontario where I am and then there is the option of walking in and buying a phone/just the SIM card, activating prepaid online in Canada (Bell, Rogers, Telus, Fido*(Rogers owned - prepaid primary)) and online activation doesn't require any actual confirmation of address, etc. You can then keep topping up the prepaid account and have data cheaper.

There is a good chance that if they picked up a prepaid phone before their adventure, which is common for people travelling who don't want to add roaming/etc to their main line - and that using this phone they have been tracking news, twitter, etc about themselves.

Once before going boating, I picked up a Rogers prepaid and Bell prepaid just to have a voice and data connection, cash, no ID. So even the network operator wouldn't have any details

If so, I think we have to add in a solar charger...or they are on very briefly. If they are trying to save data, they would use text-based aggregators for news. it would be a very long lasting/rarely used phone at this point...unless they're stopping by someplace to charge, which is doubtful.

 

[Tee404]

Me too, and if anyone checks my logs today I will be up for some explaining to do. We are trying to live in two separate and distinct worlds.. imagining the Canadian tundra and sniffing the eucalyptus bush here. No wonder we are discombobulated.

Thankfully, I work in tech ops so I control the logs/access/monitoring (cue evil giggle)! Woe are we, woe are we! Bit chilly in Syd today so I am glad I have this thread to keep me hot and bothered

 

[tcfpne]

I wish any of these two had a phone on them. Considering the population density in north Manitoba, the logs of any devices that hit the tower should be fairly short.

If they have for example a phone/SIM thats supposed to use/run on Bell network and they hit a Rogers cell tower, the log should indicate that the phone connected to it, if only for emergencies/911 and that its not allowed further network access. If the phone hits its registered tower, it would show even more info.

With the population in Gillam or York Landing, i'd assume the logs on towers would be short and easy to check, unlike say a single cell tower in Toronto which could have a few hundred thousand connections to it in a day.

 

[Peace777]

enata D'Aliesio‏ @RenataDAliesio
Some York Landing residents believe the men went back into the woods. A 12-year-old girl told police she saw one of the men running through the bush behind her home. RCMP have found no trace of the suspects and sighting remains unsubstantiated #yorklanding #Canadamanhunt

5:49 PM - 29 Jul 2019 pst

Hasn't it been raining in the area so the ground would be still soft, wouldn't there have been footprints/boot prints somewhere in the area where the girl thinks she seen the man running?Did police look for prints of any kind? Why would the little girl lie about this? MOO

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Here you go is where it says the suspects bolted. I never said anything about it being Bighetty who said it, that was you. And fair enough then if they didn’t bolt or run away (bushes or not) did they just disintegrate then? Or are they still standing there?

Well if the witness doesn’t say it, doesn’t that tell you something?

If you listen to what Bighetty says, and stop paying attention to what Mr. Flavel, who wasn’t there, and who has his own reasons to hotdog it with the media, says, you might find it more understandable that the RCMP have lost confidence in Mr. Flavel’s story

 

[Xyzzia]

Stuff and human waste can be buried.

Fish can be caught and eaten raw. Believe it or not, I know people who eat raw squirrel and raw rabbit; very digestible contrary to what people think. No need for fire. Would be nuts for them to build any kind of fire right now while there is an active manhunt out for them. Berries can be gorged on if you find them. One can eat lots of other wild things(raw) if you know what to forage.

On my walks in the forest I do pick various plants and eat them like salad depending on what's growing when. Often times I have found water mint and watercress growing wild around small northern streams. You can eat certain moss.

Maybe they know.

They could have had some military rations, they can eat berries and stuff all along the way. There's lots of things to eat. Just like you said.

 

[afitzy]

Winter roads are referred to as such because in the winter the bogs, marches, muskegs, streams and rivers etc are frozen. In the summertime the routes are impassable. If the roads were walkable they’d also be drivable, which is why in the summer they’re not....the reason they’re referred to as “winter” roads. Winter roads are very common in northern communities with their long winters and short summers.

I believe the RCMP communications officer. She said the only way they could’ve arrived at York Landing was by air or a 2 hour ferry ride, or by the train tracks which are 25km away.

@MistyWaters, Yes, thank you for your pithy explanation of the well named WINTER ROAD!

I of course realized all this and I wasn't suggesting that these 2 subjects set out to in the SUMMER to hike WINTER roads as in some places that would amount to suicide. Unless that is what they wanted to do of course!

No, the reason I posted the information is that the maps of these winter roads provide some good info on the terrain, smaller landmarks, indigenous land areas, railroads, locations not on other maps and show different path options through these regions and this was my reason for posting them. Sorry if for whatever reason you were confused.

If you do an overlay of powerlines and hydro power paths its interesting that there are networks of pathways through the region that wouldn't appear obvious by looking at a standard map and that might appeal to the creative minds of the 2 suspects who just might want to stay off the beaten path.

Me personally I think they just might have hit the road in a car again after no doubt a horrific experience in the bush!

 

[10ofRods]

Because burner phones or SIM-only purchases are cheap, easy and common.

Like I mentioned previously, getting a phone just for going into any adventure is common and easy.

But again...where do they charge said phone? Surely they didn't buy it in the last 5-7 days? Are you also hypothesizing a solar charger? Why? They could have lots of things...but they could have been in both the Co-op and the dump to attempt to peruse newspaper headlines (as well as other reasons). I mean, we could do this all night.

Again they were shot dead. It didn't say with bullets. Gun violence. Again no bullets were stated... So we don't really know And the police are not saying. It's all speculation

"Shot dead with a gun" pretty strongly implies bullets. I can't think of a single other projectile that would kill two people with a gun. I don't believe the pellet gun theory.

 

[Xyzzia]

Why would they suddenly run when he "confirmed" their identities if they were previously unconcerned? How would they know he had "confirmed their identities"?

Exactly. Something fishy about the story Of them being at the dump.

 

[Seattle1]

dbm - mapped it!