NY NY - Bronx, E 171st St, WhtHispFem 35-55, UP7897, in apt w/2 living children, Oct'93

[Moonwalker9]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Strange case, how come she's not been identified yet? where these her kids?

Case Numbers
NCMEC Number--
ME/C Case NumberB93-04501
Demographics
SexFemale
Race / EthnicityWhite / Caucasian
Possible First Name--
Possible Middle Name--
Possible Last Name--
Possible Nickname--
Estimated Age GroupAdult - Pre 60
Estimated Age Range (Years)35-55
Estimated Year of Death1993
Estimated PMIDays
Height5' 3"(63 inches) , Measured
Weight126 lbs, Measured
Circumstances
TypeUnidentified Deceased
Date FoundOctober 24, 1993
NamUs Case CreatedSeptember 27, 2010
ME/C QA ReviewedSeptember 28, 2010
Location Found Map
Street Address500 East 171st StreetBronx, New York
CountyBronx County
GPS Coordinates40.83728, -73.902827
Circumstances of RecoveryUnknown hispanic female was found in apartment at 500 East 171st Street. She has no tentative name; police found two children in the apartment alive, both severly mentally retarded.
Details of Recovery


Inventory of RemainsAll parts recovered
Condition of RemainsNot recognizable - Decomposing/putrefaction
Physical Description
Hair ColorBlack
Head Hair Descriptionblack and gray, wavy, 8"
Body Hair Description--
Facial Hair Description--
Left Eye ColorBrown
Right Eye ColorBrown
Eye Description--
Distinctive Physical Features
Item
Description
Piercing
pierced ears

Scar/mark
midline scar on abdomen just below navel


Clothing and Accessories
Item
Description
Clothing
white t-shirt
On the Body

Jewelry
long earrings with beads
On the Body


Street view

Google Maps

 

[Laughing]

Hhhm, that mid-line scar below navel can be a Caesarean section.

Yeah, don't ask me, or the 9 pound, 14 1/2 ounce baby how I know.

Wasn't happy when low-waisted jeans became popular.....

And where are the kids, were they identified?

RIP, dear!

 

[digitective]

Wonder if she was the children's mother or grandmother??

Ruleouts:
Tiffany Sessions
Nadine Timm

 

[cherrymeg]

Hhhm, that mid-line scar below navel can be a Caesarean section.

Yeah, don't ask me, or the 9 pound, 14 1/2 ounce baby how I know.

Wasn't happy when low-waisted jeans became popular.....

And where are the kids, were they identified?

RIP, dear!

Good question. Can they tell if someone's scar is from a C-section or a surgery? Wouldn't the uterus show that? If an appendix isn't present or something similar, that might be the reason for a scar. It just seems like being clear could help someone identify her. If it's a scar that was caused by something more superficial that could be helpful too. I always think C-section when I hear abdominal scar.

 

[Fuuro]

Wonder if she was the children's mother or grandmother??

Ruleouts:
Tiffany Sessions
Nadine Timm

I also think that it's likely that this woman was a caretaker of the children, who I presume were living alongside her.

As far as I've seen, no cause of death or manner of death are listed anywhere for this UID. Knowing the circumstances of her death would make understanding this case a bit easier.

I'm also curious to know the condition of the apartment and the physical states of the children. If the apartment was in complete disrepair and the children were also in very poor physical shape (perhaps even near-death), I think it's possible that this adult woman was also disabled, and perhaps the person who was supposed to take care of her and the children decided to abandon them. I do think this is kind of a stretch, and I agree that it's much more likely that she was the one taking care of herself and the children.

 

[daikon.radish]

How unutterably sad! I think that maybe she was the children’s grandmother, looking after them because her son/daughter wasn’t able to (already deceased, in prison, living on the streets, not interested?). Perhaps she had an unexpected heart attack or something and there was nothing the disabled children could do?

I’m really surprised that there was no information about who owned or rented the apartment, or information from neighbours, etc. Didn’t they hear anything, even the sounds of everyday life? I see that the state of the body was “decomposing/putrefaction” (nice) so I wonder how long before she was found (Oct 24) had she died? I’m going to see if I can find anything from newspapers at the time.

 

[Fuuro]

How unutterably sad! I think that maybe she was the children’s grandmother, looking after them because her son/daughter wasn’t able to (already deceased, in prison, living on the streets, not interested?). Perhaps she had an unexpected heart attack or something and there was nothing the disabled children could do?

I’m really surprised that there was no information about who owned or rented the apartment, or information from neighbours, etc. Didn’t they hear anything, even the sounds of everyday life? I see that the state of the body was “decomposing/putrefaction” (nice) so I wonder how long before she was found (Oct 24) had she died? I’m going to see if I can find anything from newspapers at the time.

It could be that this woman almost completely kept to herself. The children may have been too young to attend school and even if they were elementary school age or older, I'm not sure whether or not any educational opportunities would be accessible to them due to the nature of their disabilities, so it's possible that very few people knew that these people existed.

As for how long she had been dead, the estimated PMI is listed as "days", but they were apparently able to determine her eyes were brown, which means that she couldn't have been too decomposed. I'm not an expert on taphonomy by any means, but I'd guess that the amount of time that had passed between her death and discovery is closer to a single day than it is to a week.

 

[Laughing]

Whose name is on the lease? 1993? If the now-adult children have names, this lady is their relative or was paid to care for them.

We have too many of these not-enough-dots-to-connect situations right now!

Although, I suppose if a family hired an undocumented person, or hired a person with falsified documents....

and went on vacation for a week, returning to find their babysitter on the kitchen floor?

RIP, unknown lady, thanks for your care of these vulnerable children!

 

[Sleuthster]

Are the children on NAMUS or do they know who they are?

 

[daikon.radish]

As for how long she had been dead, the estimated PMI is listed as "days", but they were apparently able to determine her eyes were brown, which means that she couldn't have been too decomposed. I'm not an expert on taphonomy by any means, but I'd guess that the amount of time that had passed between her death and discovery is closer to a single day than it is to a week.

Yes, but it also says “unrecognisable”, so I assumed the eye colour was a guess. That’s not likely though, is it?

Whose name is on the lease? 1993? If the now-adult children have names, this lady is their relative or was paid to care for them.

We have too many of these not-enough-dots-to-connect situations right now!

Although, I suppose if a family hired an undocumented person, or hired a person with falsified documents....

and went on vacation for a week, returning to find their babysitter on the kitchen floor?

RIP, unknown lady, thanks for your care of these vulnerable children!

Right? I’m sure the police would have traced the landlord and found whoever was on the lease. Maybe there’s a ton more information but it just hasn’t made it to the NCMEC/namus report? And seriously, there must have been mail, bills, something to suggest who the tenant was.

Are the children on NAMUS or do they know who they are?

The report says the children were “severely mentally retarded” (I know, terrible description) so it’s possible they couldn’t explain who the lady was or even what their own names were? That’s if they were old enough to talk. What happens to kids in such circumstances?

I have to confess I totally failed at finding any information from newspapers at the time. It’s really sad to think that all this tragedy happened and there’s no hint of it left behind.

I imagine the local police have more urgent things to do than dig out 26 year old paperwork. I’d just like to see if there’s more info in there than we can see!

 

[Laughing]

I do wonder if this is the family's undocumented housekeeper. Parents of the children returned to find their employee deceased and at least notified LE.

JMHO YMMV

 

[alucardsdream]

I couldn't find a thing about this in any newspaper available online...sadly, I think the Bronx has been home to a number of unidentified bodies through the years so this didn't warrant a mention in any paper. Kind of makes you wonder if how well they actively searched for her identity...

 

[Hamburgla]

So, this is the first Doe case that I have ever sought official information on. I turn to you, websleuths, to help me out a bit. Why is it that unidentified persons cases in NYC list no law enforcement agencies on the NamUs website? I would certainly hope that police are willing to investigate such matters in NYC! As for autopsy reports, the policy of the NYC chief medical examiner's office is to only allow access to next of kin or officers of the court.

 

[Hamburgla]

So, this is the first Doe case that I have ever sought official information on. I turn to you, websleuths, to help me out a bit. Why is it that unidentified persons cases in NYC list no law enforcement agencies on the NamUs website? I would certainly hope that police are willing to investigate such matters in NYC! As for autopsy reports, the policy of the NYC chief medical examiner's office is to only allow access to next of kin or officers of the court.

 

[houndpounder]

As a NYC resident I will first say, the NYPD aren't called the "NY FINEST" for nothing. We have the oldest and largest Police Department in the country and maybe the world. 36,000 police officers and a population of 8.6 million. Have you ever been to a NYC Precinct to see how busy they are? The police officers are promoted, transferred to different precincts, etc.

Our detectives have so much experience due to large population here, compared to a one horse town. They are on their game.

Namus case report could never kept up with the correct investigating officers on any old cases, So why post the incorrect information. Just because it is not listed does not mean it is not on someone's desk. A case this old right now would be in the Medical Examiners hand because with any luck if she is identified that could lead to her killer at this point.

The detectives most likely hit a dead end on this case. You can be sure it was investigated at every level, the person that leased the apartment, to the surrounding neighbors and everyone else.

Maybe she was a squatter in that apartment when the renter was away for awhile, perhaps she gave a false name and lied about her background to the the renter that let her stay there.

There are a lot of possibilities.

 

[Laughing]

As a NYC resident I will first say, the NYPD aren't called the "NY FINEST" for nothing. We have the oldest and largest Police Department in the country and maybe the world. 36,000 police officers.

Maybe she was a squatter in that apartment when the renter was away for awhile, perhaps she gave a false name and lied about her background to the the renter that let her stay there.

There are a lot of possibilities.

rsbm

IMHO, sticking to my theory that this lady was hired to care for the children, other family members took a trip & returned home to find their housekeeper deceased. They then found out that she was undocumented.

There are certainly other possibilities.


JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[houndpounder]

Perhaps that is why no mention of the children other than they were found there. Because they were the resident's children, therefore no mystery there. She must of died of natural causes, no mention of homicide or drugs.

 

[bears10]

rsbm

IMHO, sticking to my theory that this lady was hired to care for the children, other family members took a trip & returned home to find their housekeeper deceased. They then found out that she was undocumented.

There are certainly other possibilities.


JMHO YMMV LRR

I'm not sure how to else to say it, so I'll just be blunt. I would be surprised if many (if any at all) tenants had housekeepers.

There was a lot of crime in the city in the 90s. You can see the crime stats for the bronx in 1993 at this link. I believe the apartments is served by the 44th precinct (not positive though).

Historic 30% Drop in Murder in The Bronx As Overall Crime Rates Continue to Fall - Welcome2TheBronx™

 

[therion20]

Perhaps that is why no mention of the children other than they were found there. Because they were the resident's children, therefore no mystery there. She must of died of natural causes, no mention of homicide or drugs.

If that was the case the police would have said something about it. What name was she using , where she said she was from , the family must have interview her for the job. I don't think she a housekeeper. JMO

 

[houndpounder]

So, this is the first Doe case that I have ever sought official information on. I turn to you, websleuths, to help me out a bit. Why is it that unidentified persons cases in NYC list no law enforcement agencies on the NamUs website? I would certainly hope that police are willing to investigate such matters in NYC! As for autopsy reports, the policy of the NYC chief medical examiner's office is to only allow access to next of kin or officers of the court.

Police don't investigate unless a crime was committed, there is no mention of a crime. I am sure they did some digging on her identity and came up with nothing,