CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[Nerissa]

But you're not a desert rat. This is exactly the kind of place we'd go to, if we lived near enough (DH and I). The granite outcropping, alone, is a place I'd want to collect rocks. And I believe it's legal to do so there (it is not legal in Sequoia NP, which we do visit frequently). The desert is really soothing to me.

They lived nearby (in desert standards). A mere 2 hours. There are low cost campgrounds that almost always have availability this time of year (try getting one at any of those places you mentioned - it's next to impossible; Sequoia is completely booked, no spontaneous trips for a big trailer - and they'd have to take the further entrance into the park with that behemoth). Alabama Hills is nicer - but 6 hours, at least, from their home.

I'd have gone out to see this exact site if it were just 2 hours away. 4 hours and I'm not so happy to do it.

The dunes (just another couple of miles away) are also great and at higher elevation than the ones in DV (which, to me, is the place I wouldn't go in summer). Kelso Depot is cute and at around 3000' IIRC, so only about 90-95 right now. So many things to see out there, really. People do in fact visit Death Valley, Alabama Hills, (ugly) Lake Mead and so on. The advantage of Mojave NP is that it really is less crowded and that's one some of us seek.

Sorry to go a bit off topic - but for those who don't understand the appeal of the desert, or those acclimated - I have to agree!

I lived, when a kid, in 'Mojave' proper, the town: back then totally diffferent. Small town, blink & miss it. No wind farms. Two door down was the open desert! Parents said: 'just stay in view of the house & be home at sunset'. LOL. We could see the house for miles. Now them were the days! So much fun - & yeah, rattlers, scorpions, pointy stuff, whatever - kid heaven. So, I've a bit of Mojave nostalgia

So: sounds like LE is sayin' they got nothin'

They also said no 'known medical condition'. I know 40 year olds who dropped dead from heart attacks, 40-somethings of aneurysms, 50 year olds having debilitating strokes. My uncle recently literally dropped dead on the sidewalk walking the dog. It happens.

But, all the thanks in the world to LE and search/rescue: I know they are doing their best

JMO

 

[dbdb11]

But you're not a desert rat. This is exactly the kind of place we'd go to, if we lived near enough (DH and I). The granite outcropping, alone, is a place I'd want to collect rocks. And I believe it's legal to do so there (it is not legal in Sequoia NP, which we do visit frequently). The desert is really soothing to me.

They lived nearby (in desert standards). A mere 2 hours. There are low cost campgrounds that almost always have availability this time of year (try getting one at any of those places you mentioned - it's next to impossible; Sequoia is completely booked, no spontaneous trips for a big trailer - and they'd have to take the further entrance into the park with that behemoth). Alabama Hills is nicer - but 6 hours, at least, from their home.

I'd have gone out to see this exact site if it were just 2 hours away. 4 hours and I'm not so happy to do it.

The dunes (just another couple of miles away) are also great and at higher elevation than the ones in DV (which, to me, is the place I wouldn't go in summer). Kelso Depot is cute and at around 3000' IIRC, so only about 90-95 right now. So many things to see out there, really. People do in fact visit Death Valley, Alabama Hills, (ugly) Lake Mead and so on. The advantage of Mojave NP is that it really is less crowded and that's one some of us seek.

this is a great post. i got the feeling sroads probably enjoys going out in the desert too. if i lived near there i would be the same. the desert has an amazing pull. i would probably be doing something silly like strolling into the desert alone in boardshorts and flip flops in the middle of the day, in the middle of the summer. i walked into death valley until where i started was a distant speck. i've road tripped the area. i've also been in the desert with robbie and barb.

she didn't get lost off of Kelbaker rd.

but i can't blame them for being out there. it is an amazing place, filled with amazing places; powerful and profound places.

if barb wandered into the desert... i absolutely can not rule it out.

 

[Liwthe]

These are excellent points, and it may be good to contact a Mod to clarify. I think we have taken some liberties on the thread because RT himself stated he was the "prime suspect'. This is of course not the same as the police saying he is a POI.

As for victim-blaming Barbara, I have not really seen that, but could have missed it. What I get at, and others have as well, is that something about his need to mention it, and his phrasing and intonation on that video sounds as though he may be blaming her attire and beverage for what he claims is an abduction. What you mentioned in the bolded portion is victim-blaming, as I understand it.

No I mean posters talking about her outfit at her age and how appropriate it was.

And yes, many claims that RT is guilty based on posters ‘hunches’ or their ability to read into his words or body language. Or simply because they believe it’s more likely than a person going missing (which I personally don’t believe it’s more likely than a person going missing in such an unforgiving area having walked down the wrong trail too many times to count myself, and yes, often because I was trotting along ahead and don’t have the best sense of direction). Sure it’s unusual she’s not been found. But this also happens, more frequently than we hear about because exciting murders with lots of vile dynamics between partners creates more of the schadenfraude type reactions all humans are prone to.

 

[Nerissa]

this is a great post. i got the feeling sroads probably enjoys going out in the desert too. if i lived near there i would be the same. the desert has an amazing pull. i would probably be doing something silly like strolling into the desert alone in boardshorts and flip flops in the middle of the day, in the middle of the summer. i walked into death valley until where i started was a distant speck. i've road tripped the area. i've also been in the desert with robbie and barb.

she didn't get lost off of Kelbaker rd.

but i can't blame them for being out there. it is an amazing place, filled with amazing places; powerful and profound places.

if barb wandered into the desert... i absolutely can not rule it out.

But, once sunset hits - beautiful!! And the quiet, and the stars & the temp can get to just about perfect (and NO BUGS!!)...&...The stars! (worth repeating )

 

[swedeheart]

do we know the last time barbara was seen alive by anyone that was not her husband?

gonna go out on a limb and say that statistics DO prove that a large percentage of the time, the last person to see someone alive is usually the perpetrator if there is foul play involved. when it's a woman that goes missing, and the last person to see her alive is her husband/bf/male partner, i'm fairly certain the statistics go up even more that he is involved. the fact that he also failed a polygraph (and let that fly fairly quickly) and also immediately claimed she was kidnapped (in a bikini and with a beer) are also pretty good reasons to be suspicious of him, in this case. so those are just a few of the reasons why the majority of the board is skeptical about the innocence of the husband in this case. when you frequent a place like websleuths, and you read about this happening over and over and over again, it's next to impossible to not immediately jump to that conclusion over she got lost, or she got hurt. where is she then? this is all just my opinion. i hope to eat my words and barbara is found soon!

 

[dbdb11]

this is a great post. i got the feeling sroads probably enjoys going out in the desert too. if i lived near there i would be the same. the desert has an amazing pull. i would probably be doing something silly like strolling into the desert alone in boardshorts and flip flops in the middle of the day, in the middle of the summer. i walked into death valley until where i started was a distant speck. i've road tripped the area. i've also been in the desert with robbie and barb.

she didn't get lost off of Kelbaker rd.

but i can't blame them for being out there. it is an amazing place, filled with amazing places; powerful and profound places.

if barb wandered into the desert... i absolutely can not rule it out.

in those travels, i also crossed paths with some individuals who made me very uncomfortable, and instinctually i considered dangerous.
the type who when you see them, you suddenly feel like youre in the wrong place at the wrong time. because that is where these dangerous types lurk, imo.
i also felt like i heard a bear next to my tent once, but that could have all been my imagination.
nothing ever came of those dangerous feeling encounters except memories of my danger alarm ringing.

 

[PommyMommy]

do we know the last time barbara was seen alive by anyone that was not her husband?

gonna go out on a limb and say that statistics DO prove that a large percentage of the time, the last person to see someone alive is usually the perpetrator if there is foul play involved. when it's a woman that goes missing, and the last person to see her alive is her husband/bf/male partner, i'm fairly certain the statistics go up even more that he is involved. the fact that he also failed a polygraph (and let that fly fairly quickly) and also immediately claimed she was kidnapped (in a bikini and with a beer) are also pretty good reasons to be suspicious of him, in this case. so those are just a few of the reasons why the majority of the board is skeptical about the innocence of the husband in this case. when you frequent a place like websleuths, and you read about this happening over and over and over again, it's next to impossible to not immediately jump to that conclusion over she got lost, or she got hurt. where is she then? this is all just my opinion. i hope to eat my words and barbara is found soon!

Per our VI, she was seen on July 12, 8:15 a.m. via the neighbor's surveillance cam. MOO

 

[dlharris2712]

Yes...AND if they encounter a similar situation from a known camera source where she is not in the car...imo, he could easily say she was in the RV "taking a nap"

The only good news...you can't legally ride in a 5th Wheel while it is being towed.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Enough to kill her! I don't think so.

Nerissa's post was about theories as for why BT may have walked ahead when RT asked her to stay.
Nerissa:

Well...as for her just leaving when asked to stay - two theories here of mine:

1.) he's telling the truth...yeah: shocker! lol (we jaded people, we)

2.) he is sticking close to the truth - they DID quarrel & something happened back at the RV

JMO

My post replied of the two theories, I thought a quarrel was a possibility as to why she went ahead without him. I did not say nor mean to suggest that a quarrel would be a reason for him to have killed her. Couples quarrel, that's all. IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I need to say that I was one of the people who scoffed, early on, at the mountain lion theory. And that started to bother me, as this is such a strange and unusual case, it might have a strange answer. I said the likelihood of a mountain lion was really small because of water.

So...I researched some about mountain lions, distances roamed, and water. Mountain lions can travel pretty far without water, they can easily cover 10 miles in an hour at their regular clip (and of course, move much faster than that when hunting). The water sources are out there - just at a distance, but cougars also get their water from eating animal flesh (ultimately, they go to the Mojave River or one of its springs).

This year, the rodent population has been high everywhere in California, due to the superbloom and all the rain So...that means more food going up the food chain, more successful cougar mamas and more cougars out there.

I am not saying I think she was taken by a mountain lion/cougar (same cat)...but...I can't stop thinking about it and how I pooh-poohed it initially (because it is so exceedingly rare). Then I really looked at that one picture of Barbara (where she has her arm reaching out toward Robbie). She's very very thin. Initially MP descriptors included "very thin." Yep, she was really thin - thin enough that a mountain lion could easily grab her (they can carry a young deer pretty quickly...they can take prey the size of Barbara).

That would give Robbie the sense of an abduction (she just vanished). And if the cat followed then from the west (when they went to the larger rocks, which is where a cat would be hanging out - we've seen scat in similar places), you know, just chilling and watching the humans...when they separated, she became easy prey.

If anyone has words/questions about this scenario (yes, mountain lions have killed Californians - it's just very very rare), I'd be glad to have a discussion. Maybe it should have been on the table. I'm going to ask my SAR friends what they think, of course.

May not hurt to do some searching away from the area from which she was reported missing.

IOW, Do they any other favorite places they liked to spend time camping, etc. ?

I’m not saying I believe RT is guilty of anything.... I’m on the fence. But still......

But at this point, who's to do the searching? LE isn't going to retrace the steps of every missing person over two states. This is usually organized by family and friends.

 

[LietKynes]

Could it work for a group of people armed with their phones to keep in contact, of course, to fan out from the direction RT last saw her ?
Looking for any sign including animal predation-- like cougars ?
Have they checked with any cadaver dogs ?

 

[Micheline]

Can someone tell me how far Robert and Barbara walked?
From the RV to the rock etc.
Please also where the info is originating, TIA.

 

[MsFacetious]

The only good news...you can't legally ride in a 5th Wheel while it is being towed.

Yes you can in the states in question.

State Road Laws for RVs - RV Trip Wizard

 

[Twistinginthewind]

No I mean posters talking about her outfit at her age and how appropriate it was.

And yes, many claims that RT is guilty based on posters ‘hunches’ or their ability to read into his words or body language. Or simply because they believe it’s more likely than a person going missing (which I personally don’t believe it’s more likely than a person going missing in such an unforgiving area having walked down the wrong trail too many times to count myself, and yes, often because I was trotting along ahead and don’t have the best sense of direction). Sure it’s unusual she’s not been found. But this also happens, more frequently than we hear about because exciting murders with lots of vile dynamics between partners creates more of the schadenfraude type reactions all humans are prone to.

I take people's posts in the context of discussing details on the circumstances of the case that are known through LE, MSM, and in this case, the VI.

IMO, in this case the circumstances are such that BT's husband and his explanations about what happened form the majority of what we can consider and discuss because (1) He is the only person who claims to have seen her or been with her at the time and days prior to her sudden disappearance, (2) LE searched for where he said she went missing extensively with all resources available to a qualified SAR team, and did not find her, and have given no statements about where they are with their investigation since the search, (3) RT went to the media and said LE gave him a polygraph and told him they thought he was being deceptive. I haven't seen any 'claims that RT is guilty' posted here. JMO

 

[Liwthe]

These are excellent points, and it may be good to contact a Mod to clarify. I think we have taken some liberties on the thread because RT himself stated he was the "prime suspect'. This is of course not the same as the police saying he is a POI.

As for victim-blaming Barbara, I have not really seen that, but could have missed it. What I get at, and others have as well, is that something about his need to mention it, and his phrasing and intonation on that video sounds as though he may be blaming her attire and beverage for what he claims is an abduction. What you mentioned in the bolded portion is victim-blaming, as I understand it. As we all know, women of all ages, attire, and states of sobriety are victimized every day. Predators who target women tend to be opportunists, so the fact that she was alone is really the only factor that seems relevant in this scenario, where there was such a tiny window of opportunity per RT.

Yes, I agree liberties have been taken, mods did clarify that RT was still a victim until proven otherwise and was to be treated as such. Not much changed, regardless.

We should all know LE likes to put the fear of god in people when a spouse goes missing and can’t be found because it can shake loose a confession if they’re guilty. Of course he felt under suspicion as anyone would be until the facts of the case are clarified. This may not be until a body is found. But for all we know, the LE do have all the data that shows BT was there up until RT said and there was the hour or so after he looked until he called for help.

Now, you would do due diligence in case he was extremely cunning and managed to kill and hide her in that short time frame, knowing he had a couple of hours until help would arrive. Anything is possible.

It’s just when considering the likelihood, they also need to hear about sufficient motive along with having some evidence. Until we hear more (and we’ve heard nothing substantial here), it’s impossible to make that call. At least in my mind.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Great points regarding a mountain lion taking her and that looking like an abduction.

 

[CatsMeoww]

If anyone has words/questions about this scenario (yes, mountain lions have killed Californians - it's just very very rare), I'd be glad to have a discussion. Maybe it should have been on the table. I'm going to ask my SAR friends what they think, of course.

I didn't really give much thought to the mountain lion angle, but it is at least worth discussing. I've been literally face to face with one before and they are extremely intimidating creatures when you see them up close.


Yes, We Have Deer (and Mountain Lions) in the Mojave Desert


Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

"The common factor in the most recent three California attacks is that the victims were alone. In Reynolds’ case, it is thought that he was crouching, a position not advised by authorities on deterring lion attacks."

It is probably pretty unlikely that a mountain lion got her, but not impossible. If she was crouching to pick up a rock and a lion was stalking her, it could theoretically happen. I do think there would probably be some signs though, her hat or maybe even some trace amounts of blood. They attack with their paws and mouth, and thus probably would've left bloody tracks. Not sure if that's something that would be easily noticed during a search but I'm sure they looked for such signs.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

These are excellent points, and it may be good to contact a Mod to clarify. I think we have taken some liberties on the thread because RT himself stated he was the "prime suspect'. This is of course not the same as the police saying he is a POI.

As for victim-blaming Barbara, I have not really seen that, but could have missed it. What I get at, and others have as well, is that something about his need to mention it, and his phrasing and intonation on that video sounds as though he may be blaming her attire and beverage for what he claims is an abduction. What you mentioned in the bolded portion is victim-blaming, as I understand it. As we all know, women of all ages, attire, and states of sobriety are victimized every day. Predators who target women tend to be opportunists, so the fact that she was alone is really the only factor that seems relevant in this scenario, where there was such a tiny window of opportunity per RT.[/QUOTE

Deleted.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

If you search on Youtube, there are some videos by people being stalked by mountain lions (and who were able to record the encounter and survive). They're quite scary to watch.

There is also a video interview with a guy who survived a mountain lion attack. I think it was in California. When you listen to what this guy did in order to survive, you realize that you'd have to be quite physically strong and agile to ward off an attack once the cat has made physical contact with you.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

JMO

As has been mentioned before, I really think that Texas EquuSearch should be invited to search for Barbara.

Texas EquuSearch

Right now, there doesn't seem to be any boots on the ground searching for her. I have not seen any appeals from RT or Matt for people to come forward and help them search.

@dbdb11 - can anyone in your family advocate to the local LE for them to invite TE in to search?
Right now, it may be your familiy's best chance to know for sure if she is still out there!

There sure as heck aren't going to be any hunters out there who will stumble upon her red hat or beer can (if it is there to be found.)

This lovely woman deserves to be located.....but someone needs to be looking for her in order to do so!