CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[chihuahua]

has not been confirmed that picture is from the day. imo it is not.

as for your other questions...

my guess: barbara may have been held in an area not far, maybe vegas, or maybe the exact opposite direction, from where she was abducted. they probably took her to some safehouse, where they may have given her a change of clothes. its probably hot and they barely feed her. but she is alive. her kidnappers may have been awaiting payment, after all i doubt they would have any personal grudge against barb. just money in it for them, but when payday comes... nothing.

just the man on the news saying he hopes they release her, somewhere she can make contact, and the man assures them he will not press charges... but she might have seen their faces, they think. 'wtf kind of backwards deal is that?!' they might shout at the screen, as they try to decide what theyre going to do with the old woman locked in the back room.

just my own speculations. a fictional narrative i made to fit the story told by the man who brought her to the middle of the desert where she disappeared without a trace. a man we all know she loved, a man who may very well be heart broken himself.

what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?

Bless your heart .
And thanks for answering about the picture .
Much to consider in your narrative . VERY thought-provoking .
Chi
Still doing whatever I can to help

 

[kay74]

An abduction by an unknown person(s) or anyone else really would leave behind clues, (the beer for example). I understand not wanting to fight the possible abductors if forced at gunpoint but to dissapear without a single clue or trace is just something else entirely.

If the person stopped in the road, no tire marks. I'm sure he would have made her take the beer.

 

[GordianKnot]

And that’s the thing. We have to stretch to make the random abduction scenario work.

Well, here's the other thing:

My main man William of Occam doesn't like having to perform mental gymnastics.

He ain't into trying to do all these complicated mental yoga exercises.

(I think it's on account of he really struggles with those downward-facing dog positions).

My man Will prefers to just reach for what's closest to hand.

Abduction is a bridge too far for William of Occam. Also for yours truly.

That scenario falls well beyond the realm of what's most likely to have occurred here.

JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I think getting polygraphed would be stressful.

Which is why the machine and operator establish a kind of baseline. They ask a series of questions that should be no-stress and are also basic mental status exam questions. "What is your name?" "What month is this?" Certainly, a person can be stressed by just answering those questions, but the polygraph tech is looking for spikes that go beyond that baseline stress. Just changing topics to more stressful topics, "What time did you leave the house the morning your wife disappeared?" can create a new stress benchmark.

These reports are very difficult to interpret and only about 50/50 in terms of indicating which answers are "lies" (e.g., more stressful). Throwing in a question like "Did you do anything to harm your wife that day?" can definitely boost stress, all by themselves (even if the person is innocent). But typically, an innocent person will regain composure and continue to answer similar questions without further spikes.

So much of it is so subjective, though. My mom passed one when she was about 30, in which a co-worker had stolen money from the company where she worked. She was positively outraged the entire time and pretty amped up and emphatic. They interpreted that as a pass.

 

[Liwthe]

has not been confirmed that picture is from the day. imo it is not.

as for your other questions...

my guess: barbara may have been held in an area not far, maybe vegas, or maybe the exact opposite direction, from where she was abducted. they probably took her to some safehouse, where they may have given her a change of clothes. its probably hot and they barely feed her. but she is alive. her kidnappers may have been awaiting payment, after all i doubt they would have any personal grudge against barb. just money in it for them, but when payday comes... nothing.

just the man on the news saying he hopes they release her, somewhere she can make contact, and the man assures them he will not press charges... but she might have seen their faces, they think. 'wtf kind of backwards deal is that?!' they might shout at the screen, as they try to decide what theyre going to do with the old woman locked in the back room.

just my own speculations. a fictional narrative i made to fit the story told by the man who brought her to the middle of the desert where she disappeared without a trace. a man we all know she loved, a man who may very well be heart broken himself.

what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?

I’m wondering which of your theories you think is more likely, that RT won’t pay abductors and that’s why his beloved wife is gone, or the one you say at the end which I can’t tell for sure, but I think you mean he staged her murder or murdered her himself because she knew something that she was going to tell your father when she visited?

Can I ask if you think this because she alluded to something on her last visit?

 

[10ofRods]

Well, here's the other thing:

My main man William of Occam doesn't like having to perform mental gymnastics.

He ain't into trying to do all these complicated mental yoga exercises.

(I think it's on account of he really struggles with those downward-facing dog positions).

My man Will prefers to just reach for what's closest to hand.

Abduction is a bridge too far for William of Occam. Also for yours truly.

That scenario falls well outside the reach of what's most likely to have occurred here.

JMO.

Is William okay with Mountain Lion?

Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

It's rare, but it does happen. It also ticks all the boxes for this disappearance (except...as far as we know...no evidence of mountain lion).

 

[MassGuy]

Is William okay with Mountain Lion?

Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

It's rare, but it does happen. It also ticks all the boxes for this disappearance (except...as far as we know...no evidence of mountain lion).

If William likes one in a billion shots...

What are the odds?
The historical average odds of any one individual being fatally attacked by a mountain lion in the United States is about one in a billion, or three times LESS likely than that same individual getting the winning numbers in tonight's Powerball Lottery.

In the past 25 years there have been only seven fatal mountain lion attacks in the United States.

This is a 28% chance (7 divided by 25) of this event occurring in any year in the United States.

The US population is currently 321 million, but over the past 25 years the average population was 299 million.

Which makes the odds of being fatally attacked by a mountain lion one in 1,068,681,429, just a little more than one in a billion!

While you are waiting to find out whether you are a winner, why not learn how to protect yourself in the rare event of a mountain lion encounter.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I am sorry I'm just bee bopping in and out. Something is weird to me and I don't know why it's bugging me.

Did a VI not say the awning on the trailer was extended and there were chairs out? Or am I dreaming?

Even if Barbara couldn't find the keys there would have been a chair at least.

If I'm not dreaming, it sounds like they were planning to stay awhile or RT sat there waiting on LE?

Just a random, fly by, muddled nagging thought.

 

[Deleted member 278]

It does seem preposterous (unless they had a truly epic fight...even then). And then, the chances of that one car containing a predator need to be added in. Entirely possible, but improbable.

Here's a list of mountain lion attacks:

Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

Check out the Iris Kenna one (1994), in similar terrain and not far from San Diego. We get about one each decade, more or less, and we haven't had one since 2004 (a man on a bike, in the hills). By similar terrain I mean flat, not in the hills, some scrub - but more trees.

I am distantly related to one of the deceased.

 

[Nerissa]

Is William okay with Mountain Lion?

Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

It's rare, but it does happen. It also ticks all the boxes for this disappearance (except...as far as we know...no evidence of mountain lion).

Thing with a mountain lion is they hunt at night. And we are talking noon in July in the desert.

I think kitty is napping.

Also: I would be surprised if a mountain lion had a den anywhere near these trails & roads, etc. Too near humans. They would have their homes in more remote locations

Now, it isn't unheard of for a wild animal to be ill or in distress, etc. & then proceed to do & be in areas & habitats they generally are not found. But: I'd also think if this were the case - some ill, distressed mountain lion in the area would be known...ie, if the kitty were deranged & trying to pick off humans from a trail. But, hey: this case is odd, who knows

JMO

 

[artsy1]

The RV was parked in a very remote area. BT would have stood out approaching the RV. Someone could have seen her on their way to Vegas and abducted her very easily, sight unseen.

If he was at the turn out on Kelbaker Rd where we all believe, it wasn't parked in a very remote area. Just not well traveled, although since it was a Friday, there were probably a few more passerbys than normal.

 

[Micheline]

...

I'm struggling to see the logic behind this argument.

How would misinforming LE and S&R about what his wife was last seen wearing and/or what she had with her at the time she went missing in any way assist them in locating her as quickly as possible?

Seems to me it would place her at greater risk of non-discovery/recovery if RT sent LE and search teams out into the desert looking for the wrong indicators that she'd been there.

It would place her in a much more precarious position...as if her position wouldn't have been life-threatening enough out in that desert.

To me, that suggestion is a total non-starter.

JMO.

I realise it doesn't make sense, but does it make sense to believe he harmed his wife, then goes on TV twice lengthy saying he believes she got kidnapped and taken to Las Vegas because she was wearing a bikini and how he is the prime suspect?

There aren't many options, to me the one that makes the most sense I posted a few pages back.

 

[GordianKnot]

Is William okay with Mountain Lion?

Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

It's rare, but it does happen. It also ticks all the boxes for this disappearance (except...as far as we know...no evidence of mountain lion).

Funny you should mention it.

I just asked William of Occam about the possibility of a mountain lion attack.

Boy, was that ever a big mistake!

Initially, he looked aghast, like I'd grown two heads and a set of horns, or something.

After he recovered his powers of speech, William opened his mouth and uttered the single word:

"Nah."

Then he tried to bill me (yet again) for the consult, which is really outrageous, considering he only said that one word, not to mention the fact that "Nah" isn't even really a word.

Long story short: Per William of Occam, it's incredibly unlikely that a mountain lion attack is the reason BT is missing.

JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

If William likes one in a billion shots...

What are the odds?
The historical average odds of any one individual being fatally attacked by a mountain lion in the United States is about one in a billion, or three times LESS likely than that same individual getting the winning numbers in tonight's Powerball Lottery.

In the past 25 years there have been only seven fatal mountain lion attacks in the United States.

This is a 28% chance (7 divided by 25) of this event occurring in any year in the United States.

The US population is currently 321 million, but over the past 25 years the average population was 299 million.

Which makes the odds of being fatally attacked by a mountain lion one in 1,068,681,429, just a little more than one in a billion!

While you are waiting to find out whether you are a winner, why not learn how to protect yourself in the rare event of a mountain lion encounter.

Well yes, but nevertheless, people (particularly middle aged and older, and children) do get attacked by mountain lions.

Occam's razor is not a statistical theorem. It's probably best to use one or the other. But if we use statistics only, we get back to just one conclusion.

And our VI has a theory that's got vanishingly small probabilities as well...so...since Barb is gone and there's no explanation, she joins the 80,000 or so missing adults (that don't get found) in a given year in the US.

Of those how many are abducted, killed by wildlife, or murdered by known or unknown persons? How many are runaways? Adult runaways are relatively rare, but that happens too.

If William only likes murder, each and every time, William will sometimes be quite wrong.

 

[tcfpne]

Under US law, if the missing adult (18+) is found, and is found to have voluntarily went missing, do the family get notified or not?

 

[10ofRods]

Psst, don't tell William I said that last thing.

 

[MsBetsy]

EDIT: what DOES barbara know? what did she learn?

Are you aware of something they or he may have been involved in that he would not want anyone to know?

 

[10ofRods]

Under US law, if the missing adult (18+) is found, and is found to have voluntarily went missing, do the family get notified or not?

No.

But choosing to go voluntarily missing in the Mojave Desert, with a window of opportunity for pick-up that's about 15 minutes is an extraordinarily difficult thing to arrange. If she was trying to escape her life and go underground, she'd have had to use a phone, I'd think. And she would have had to insist they stop right there (no way of summoning someone out there on the fly) or known they were going to stop.

Of course, if she hitchhiked out of there (moving down the road 10-15 minutes in either direction), she'd be able to do that.

 

[K9Enzo]

He was carrying a backpack. They put the key to the RV under a rock. Is that in case they got separated?? In case they went separate ways??

My husband and I have never done this but many people really do. For some they are terrified of losing the key so they hide it. I’m sure car thefts happen but I think the biggest risk is forgetting where you put it. Like you mentioned, maybe the thought was the other could get into the RV/truck if they were separated.

I think where people are prone to lose items is when they rummage through their backpacks and pockets. I’m amazed and what I have found that people dropped, accidentally walked away from. I use to get annoyed when my husband would inventory our packs after dropping them for a break but totally understand why.

 

[moonrise]

Just an odd thought I had.

RT seems to be well-off, financially. What if some sort of business deal went terribly wrong ... wrong to the point where lives were being threatened, or blackmail, or ??? Maybe BT is being held as collateral until RT forks over a colossal amount of money. The other party could have followed RT and BT into a remote area of the desert ... perhaps clandestinely ... or perhaps RT knew what was going to happen and felt he didn't have a choice. RT and BT would go for a walk, and BT vanishes without a trace, perhaps even disappearing around a corner exactly as RT stated ... only she wasn't alone. In a way, it could even be considered an "abduction" of sorts.

RT could be telling the basic truth about what happened ... just not the whole truth ... and he may not can say anything else publicly for fear of BT being harmed.

Probably not a likely scenario, because the very act of calling 911 in the first place could put BT in more danger ... but it also could explain a lot of things, including why no trace of BT has been found, why nobody seems to be saying anything, the "deceptive" results of the polygraph test, etc.

(All just speculation. MOO.)