CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[MsBetsy]

Not even footprints?

Apparently not. They said they found no evidence at all. Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

BBM

That is what is making me think Barbara may not have been out there. Dogs are not infallible, but it's odd they didn't hit on anything. MOO

Exact same situation on another thread I participate on. A hiker vanishes in Joshua Tree on a scalding day. Dogs have not picked up his scent. He has been missing for a year. I am 100% convinced he is in there, yet to be found.

As I posted upthread, I am no big SAR expert, but have participated in searches and know of searches where remains were overlooked during thorough searches, and eventually spotted. It's hard to "see" remains outdoors.

*If* BT is within the proximity of where she was last allegedly seen (and I'm going with that), then she knew RT was waiting on her. She couldn't have gone that far and has to be lodged somewhere. Gruesome, but realistic.

Anyone know of any searches this weekend? If she were wearing any jewelry (ring or watch), even metal detectors might be useful, and certainly "cave cameras" to drop between boulders, etc.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

I really want to know that also. There should be 2 sets of footprints coming from their vehicle, right? Do footprints stay very long? Or does the wind blow the sand away?

According to the VI, Robert said that people were walking all throughout the area, ruining the crime scene, or something like that. I don't remember if he was talking about LE or the searchers or who he was referring to. Imo

 

[dbdb11]

VI has said she had no phone. That when she visited Hong Kong in May, his mother (Barbara's SiL) loaned Barbara a phone and taught her to use it. He said she ultimately "jived with" the phone but did not have one.

Dogs can track out there, but we never heard from the SAR team that they were onto anything. They were posting videos of the dogs, but none of them seemed to catch a scent. If the dogs had caught a scent, I think that would be mentioned in the daily bulletins from SBCS instead of saying "no signs of Barbara."

For the sake of clarity: Barbara Bullen/Thomas is my father's sister. Her son Matt is my cousin. She was on her way to visit us, specifically to visit my father, who has been battling cancer.

My father is Barbara's baby bro. They've always been close.

 

[rosesfromangels]

For the sake of clarity: Barbara Bullen/Thomas is my father's sister. Her son Matt is my cousin. She was on her way to visit us, specifically to visit my father, who has been battling cancer.

My father is Barbara's baby bro. They've always been close.

Really appreciate you being here, and I'm so sorry your Aunt is the subject of a thread. Prayers for your family, and prayers for answers soon.

Bless you and your family,
-Roses

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

For the sake of clarity: Barbara Bullen/Thomas is my father's sister. Her son Matt is my cousin. She was on her way to visit us, specifically to visit my father, who has been battling cancer.

My father is Barbara's baby bro. They've always been close.

Did Barbara give any reason why Robert was not going with her or had not travelled with her the last time?

I hope your family is well, despite the circumstances or as much as can be expected. I know this is a difficult time for you.
I keep hoping every time I see you post that you will tell us Barbara suddenly showed up in Hong Kong and is doing fine.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Words fail me now.

Law enforcement may well have searched the pickup and trailer. I was simply pointing out some of the legal challenges that can arise from searches based on consent.

 

[kiwi50]

For the sake of clarity: Barbara Bullen/Thomas is my father's sister. Her son Matt is my cousin. She was on her way to visit us, specifically to visit my father, who has been battling cancer.

My father is Barbara's baby bro. They've always been close.

You’re doing a great job of keeping Barbara’s case to the fore, you have personalised it for me with the snippets you are able to give us.

 

[kay74]

For the sake of clarity: Barbara Bullen/Thomas is my father's sister. Her son Matt is my cousin. She was on her way to visit us, specifically to visit my father, who has been battling cancer.

My father is Barbara's baby bro. They've always been close.

Did Barbara say why she did not have a cell phone?? Was it because she didn't want one or because RT didn't want her to have one?! Everyone nowadays has one. I'm older than Barbara and would never be without my cell phone. Haven't had a landline in many years. I don't understand this at all.

 

[Kapua]

Exact same situation on another thread I participate on. A hiker vanishes in Joshua Tree on a scalding day. Dogs have not picked up his scent. He has been missing for a year. I am 100% convinced he is in there, yet to be found.

As I posted upthread, I am no big SAR expert, but have participated in searches and know of searches where remains were overlooked during thorough searches, and eventually spotted. It's hard to "see" remains outdoors.

*If* BT is within the proximity of where she was last allegedly seen (and I'm going with that), then she knew RT was waiting on her. She couldn't have gone that far and has to be lodged somewhere. Gruesome, but realistic.

Anyone know of any searches this weekend? If she were wearing any jewelry (ring or watch), even metal detectors might be useful, and certainly "cave cameras" to drop between boulders, etc.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I'm a really big fan of search dogs as well, but if anyone here is not, I will add that the SAR team used helicopters and off-road vehicles as well. According to RT's account, she was less than 1/2 mile from the RV when he last saw her. If you look at post #23 in the Media Thread, you will see actual pictures of the place that RT alleged they were hiking; one of our Websleuthers went out there, found the actual location, and posted pictures and a map. It was his belief that she could not have gotten lost there. She would have had a clear sight line to the road and their vehicle. Take a look at the pics in sroad's post. He also notes that there are no rock formations for her to hide under between the road and where they were hiking. Further, he states that due to the many cholla cacti there, a hiker wearing shorts (or a bikini) would not want to wander off-trail. After examining these pics once again this morning, I still find it extremely difficult to believe that BT could get lost walking on a trail within clear sight of the vehicle, or that she would have wandered off-trail. Further, I find it extremely difficult to believe that neither trained searchers, trained search dogs, searchers using helicopters, and searchers in off-road vehicles would have been able to locate BT if she had become lost or experienced a medical event in that particular location. And that forces me to conclude that BT was never there. MOO

AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[dbdb11]

I’ll have to go back and check, but I thought the VI said she had given up the dog after she and RT married? I may have totally misread that though! MOO

sigh... chinese whispers.

 

[kay74]

What if someone going down that road called her over to ask directions and grabbed her. She looks like she would be friendly and go over to where they are.

 

[Kapua]

For the sake of clarity: Barbara Bullen/Thomas is my father's sister. Her son Matt is my cousin. She was on her way to visit us, specifically to visit my father, who has been battling cancer.

My father is Barbara's baby bro. They've always been close.

I am so very sad that you, your father, and your family have to go through this during your father's battle with cancer. This makes a bad situation far worse. I hope we will find out where your beloved aunt is soon, and I send you my prayers for strength and my best wishes.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Not only is LE not releasing any evidence, they aren't reaching out to the public for help. At this point in their investigation, IMO they don't need the public's help. I think they know a lot that we don't know.

Agree entirely. You can bet they do. Maybe just biding their time waiting for a slip up...

 

[LAhiker]

sigh... chinese whispers.

I had to look up the idiom. In the US we call that "telephone."

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I forgot about a neighbor saying they seen BT that morning BUT did they actually see BT or someone they automatically assumed was BT?

I thought same. Did they physically SEE her, or just RT in and out to van on that morning, and assumed that BT was around as they were preparing to take off?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

That is what is making me think Barbara may not have been out there. Dogs are not infallible, but it's odd they didn't hit on anything. MOO

True. Also there have been several cases involving massive search efforts for weeks or even several long months without locating the body.

Then by happenstance someone not even connected to any of the searches or the case itself will stumble upon the remains. In several of the cases they were located in the same areas that had already been extensively searched by humans, and dogs.

It is a perfect example why many searchers say... trying to find a body is truly like trying to find a tiny needle in a huge haystack.

I dont know what to make of this case. Imo We really cant go by statistical probabilities at this point, since each individual case is put into a statistical category only after its known what happened to the missing person, and if foul play was involved, and only when the suspect is known based on evidence supporting it.

Statistics only matter in solved cases where all information is known conclusively to LE. If statistics were a factor in solving cases then all cases would be solved by just using them, and they are not.

Prematurely compartmentalizing all unsolved cases into one box is impossible with so many unknowns yet to be known. Imo.

In fact it may cause tunnel vision which is a detriment to any unsolved cases. LE must always be open minded to all possibilities until all possibilities can be definitely ruled out.

Iirc, the last data I read stated around 3500 females are murdered each year. It used to be about 33 percent were murdered by their SO. So that leaves over 66 percent who were murdered by someone else.

I did read the amount of SOs killing their partners has declined even lower than 33 percent along with our overall homicide rate declining in the last 6 years or so.

So until its known as to what happened to Barbara, who seems to be a lovely young at heart free spirit woman.. we really don't know what has happened to her. I wish we did know.

Has LE said her spouse is a POI, and they suspect foul play?

As far as saying he failed his poly really doesn't mean much, imo.. I could list many innocent people who were told they failed their poly when they were totally innocent having no involvement whatsoever in the disappearance and/or murder of their loved one. Also per the USSC the police are legally allowed to purposefully lie to anyone.

When returning to the RV did she have to cross a main road where others could be traveling by at the time? Of course, I dont know Barbara personally, but just by reading she seems to be very social, and someone who is used to conversing with strangers maybe without being as fearful or guarded as some may be.

It seems to be a mystery as of now, and one I hope LE is able to solve for her family.

Jmho

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Apparently the departure was seen on camera, but no details have been given. It's not first-hand information as far as I can make out, i.e. nobody here has seen it.

Do we know where this info came from?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm a really big fan of search dogs as well, but if anyone here is not, I will add that the SAR team used helicopters and off-road vehicles as well. According to RT's account, she was less than 1/2 mile from the RV when he last saw her. If you look at the post #23 in the Media Thread you will see actual pictures of the place that RT alleged they were hiking; one of our Websleuthers went out there, found the actual location, and posted pictures and a map. It was his belief that she could not have gotten lost there. She would have had a clear sight line to the road and their vehicle. Take a look at the pics in sroad's post. He also notes that there are no rock formations for her to hide under between the road and where they were hiking. Further, he states that due to the many cholla cacti there, a hiker wearing shorts (or a bikini) would not want to wander off-trail. After examining these pics once again this morning, I still find it extremely difficult to believe that BT could get lost walking on a trail within clear sight of the vehicle, or that she would have wandered off-trail. Further, I find it extremely difficult to believe that neither trained searchers, trained search dogs, searchers using helicopters, and searchers in off-road vehicles would have been able to locate BT if she had become lost or experienced a medical event in that particular location. And that forces me to conclude that BT was never there. MOO

AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

Thanks so much for referring me to the media & timeline thread Kapua; extremely useful. In looking at the images, reading the thoughts from the boots on the ground, and the video, I do see some areas that could be withholding her remains.

Here's where I'm coming from. There have been absolutely no reports from LE indicating a different direction in the case. (That I have heard of). No luminal, and so forth. As such, this is what we have to go with that is the latest and official from LE. He was taking a picture and poof, she's gone.

Until and if the time LE indicates a different direction, I will stay laser focused on the thought she collapsed out there, and is yet to be found. It's all we've got to go on that is official. (At this time).

Hope that makes sense.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Nerissa]

This may be nothing - but it's something that's been niggling with me - it's the picture of BT in a red cap & a black bikini top. It's established this was NOT from the day she went missing

How convenient - seems too much so, perhaps?

Is it possible RT was inspired, got his narrative of events (since it seems he thinks her mode of dress contributed to her disappearance) & what she was wearing by this picture - ?

Maybe she regularly wore the black bikini & red cap on jaunts, & camping. Possible

It's just there in the back of my mind that seems a little too pat to have that picture perfectly describing what she was wearing even though it wasn't taken that day...

Eh. Maybe it's nothing....(& maybe it is!)

JMO