OH - 9 killed + Gunman, 16 injured, Mass Shooting, Oregon District, Dayton, 4 Aug 2019

[thefragile7393]

The only two children of their parents. Wow. I can’t imagine how the family is feeling right now..just wow.

 

[MsFacetious]

The only two children of their parents. Wow. I can’t imagine how the family is feeling right now..just wow.

I know... back in 1996 Megan was a newborn and Connor was a toddler and who could have imagined how and where their lives would end? It's so horrific for all of the families.

In this case we have the suspects family also being the family of one of the victims... which is not common in these mass murders. It puts a whole different perspective on it.

In 60 seconds these 9 victims parents lost their children and any hopes and dreams of the future. No more weddings, no more grandkids, no careers, or anything else they may have done.

Megan's lost both of their children. It would be difficult enough to know your child was murdered by a stranger on a night out. Leaving their own children without a parent. Or to know that your child murdered strangers who were just out enjoying themselves.

To put both of those scenarios together and know that your only daughter was murdered by your only son before he killed 8 other bystanders? It's beyond belief and I would not survive it if it was me. I truly cannot wrap my mind around it.

I honestly hope there IS a manifesto somewhere that they find. Because I feel like the family needs as much information as they can to have any hope of surviving it.

 

[Elley Mae]

El Paso, Ohio mass shootings: Is this ever going to end? - CNNPolitics

We know it can happen anywhere because mass shootings happen everywhere; in California, Texas, Ohio and Illinois in recent days at a festival, a Walmart, a nightlife district and a playground.

In states with lax gun laws and tough ones.
The suspected El Paso, Texas, shooter is a white nationalist. The shooter in California may have posted white supremacist sentiments on social media.

The suspected Ohio shooter is not -- at this point -- tied to any ideology at all. In Chicago, it was a drive-by shooting, a different strain of the cancer of gun violence in the United States.

What once caused alarm and a nationwide debate is now more terrifying because ... it is normal.

Connor Betts, Ohio gunman, was Elizabeth Warren supporter

 

[enelram]

I am 75% certain that he wanted to kill his sister, the male companion, and their friends at the bar.
.

Agree with you, but I'd put it at 99.9% sure he wanted to kill his sister and the friend.

I also suspect the sister was a target her whole
life of the mean, bullying brother.

Was he the son who did mean things to her
while growing up because "negative attention"
is better than "no attention"?

Was he allowed to get away with this behavior
until he publicly showed his true meaness, ie
the public writing on the wall in HS. Then he
again, only received a slap on the hands.
Was he the child that we've all seen having
an attention seeking temper tantrum because
he was never taught the meaning of no?

I suspect there was a great deal of family dysfunction
going on in his growing up years.
JMO

 

[coffeeandacig]

Just trying to catch up...please correct me if I'm wrong.

The pictures posted yesterday of the "him" in front of a Trump tower sign were not Connor Betts. Which other ones were not him?

There were signs that CB going back at least 10 years that he was deranged, because he kept a hit list of people he wanted to knock off in high school?

And according to Heavy.com and the above Washington Post link, he was anti-Republican, anti-ICE, a leftist zealot, and a socialist.
So, does this mean he committed a hate crime against the right wing, (even though he didn't leave a pro-socialist manifesto) in order to respond to the mass killing in El Paso?

 

[enelram]

I honestly hope there IS a manifesto somewhere that they find. Because I feel like the family needs as much information as they can to have any hope of surviving it.

I don't get the feeling that this was a one-off
behavior from their son.
My guess is the parents suspected something like this could set their son off. Seems like he was a ticking time bomb. (IMO)
What changed here was his access to high powered guns.
CB had a volatile temper it seems. Uncontained anger. Uncontained hate for others. Intense hatred/jealousy towards his
sister.
Were his normal poorly controlled impulses unlocked with alcohol or
drugs?
Even in normal times he had a problem with
impulse control. And anger. And hatred.

Were his parents aware that their maladjusted
son had brought high powered weapons into the home?
I'm just surprised he didn't kill his parents first before he went out that night.

 

[JBMDC]

Just trying to catch up...please correct me if I'm wrong.

The pictures posted yesterday of the "him" in front of a Trump tower sign were not Connor Betts. Which other ones were not him?

There were signs that CB going back at least 10 years that he was deranged, because he kept a hit list of people he wanted to knock off in high school?

And according to Heavy.com and the above Washington Post link, he was anti-Republican, anti-ICE, a leftist zealot, and a socialist.
So, does this mean he committed a hate crime against the right wing, (even though he didn't leave a pro-socialist manifesto) in order to respond to the mass killing in El Paso?

No. He didn’t target right wing people. He killed his sister and 6 black & 2 other white people who were outside a bar at 1 am.
He didn’t have a coherent political ideology. He was just another who could not function in society and thought he deserved higher status without earning it. He seems to have liked the idea of socialism for people like him because he had a moronic understanding of it. What he probably wanted was a comfortable income without having to do anything useful or productive to earn it, but that is not socialism.

 

[Gardenista]

I honestly hope there IS a manifesto somewhere that they find. Because I feel like the family needs as much information as they can to have any hope of surviving it.

There was a manifesto of sorts--his disgusting Twitter account. I think one family member was following him, so they know what was up with him. Maybe Twitter will DL them a copy of his tweets if they want to see them again.

 

[alucardsdream]

The only two children of their parents. Wow. I can’t imagine how the family is feeling right now..just wow.

It's completely heartbreaking. When I was in my 20s, this was the kind of incident I would get all fired up about, say how we need to make a bunch of changes so stuff like this wouldn't happen. But in my 30s...now I just feel depressed and defeated. Things like this keep happening and it just really makes me sad. So many innocent people, just living their lives, only to get murdered by some angry and idiotic person who blames the world for everything.

 

[coffeeandacig]

No. He didn’t target right wing people. He killed his sister and 6 black & 2 other white people who were outside a bar at 1 am.
He didn’t have a coherent political ideology. He was just another ******* who could not function in society and thought he deserved higher status without earning it. He seems to have liked the idea of socialism for people like him because he had a moronic understanding of it. What he probably wanted was a comfortable income without having to do anything useful or productive to earn it, but that is not socialism.

Ok...We strongly agree he was a loser. But why outside a country western bar, when there are dozens of bars in the area?

While he didn't leave a manifesto, and maybe he wasn't a well educated leftist, it is obvious that he did have strong feelings about being a democratic socialist from all the rants listed above.
My question is, was he motivated to do a tit for tat in answer to the El Paso killings?

 

[cody22]

Connor Betts, Ohio gunman, was Elizabeth Warren supporter

Bump.......moo

 

[Betty P]

No. He didn’t target right wing people. He killed his sister and 6 black & 2 other white people who were outside a bar at 1 am.
He didn’t have a coherent political ideology. He was just another ******* who could not function in society and thought he deserved higher status without earning it. He seems to have liked the idea of socialism for people like him because he had a moronic understanding of it. What he probably wanted was a comfortable income without having to do anything useful or productive to earn it, but that is not socialism.

Agree, from what reliable sources I've read, his thoughts were all over the place. There's a major disconnect between an obsession with big guns and ammo and his alleged political beliefs. The targets of his shooting were not chosen for any hate crime. One victim was his sister, another his friend and many others were AA. Aside from the sibling and friend, he seemed to be shooting at whomever was getting in his way.

IIRC, we're not supposed to discuss politics in this thread.

 

[x_files]

Ok...We strongly agree he was a loser. But why outside a country western bar, when there are dozens of bars in the area?

While he didn't leave a manifesto, and maybe he wasn't a well educated leftist, it is obvious that he did have strong feelings about being a democratic socialist from all the rants listed above.
My question is, was he motivated to do a tit for tat in answer to the El Paso killings?

I watched the CCTV footage it appears he was walking/running down the street shooting at random and was stopped/shot in front of that bar rather than it being his target. It could have been completely random.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Agree, from what reliable sources I've read, his thoughts were all over the place. There's a major disconnect between an obsession with big guns and ammo and his alleged political beliefs. The targets of his shooting were not chosen for any hate crime. One victim was his sister, another his friend and many others were AA. Aside from the sibling and friend, he seemed to be shooting at whomever was getting in his way.

IIRC, we're not supposed to discuss politics in this thread.

But is motivation allowed to be discussed? If it's a tit for tat motive, why can't we discuss it?

 

[Betty P]

Ok...We strongly agree he was a loser. But why outside a country western bar, when there are dozens of bars in the area?

While he didn't leave a manifesto, and maybe he wasn't a well educated leftist, it is obvious that he did have strong feelings about being a democratic socialist from all the rants listed above.
My question is, was he motivated to do a tit for tat in answer to the El Paso killings?

Nothing in the rant I read (please feel free to link to one from a reliable source) came close to accuracy about Democratic Socialism. None.

 

[Betty P]

Just trying to catch up...please correct me if I'm wrong.

The pictures posted yesterday of the "him" in front of a Trump tower sign were not Connor Betts. Which other ones were not him?

There were signs that CB going back at least 10 years that he was deranged, because he kept a hit list of people he wanted to knock off in high school?

And according to Heavy.com and the above Washing

But it's motivation allowed to be discussed? If it's a tit for tat motive, why can't we discuss it?

You should probably contact the mods and ask them to clarify that for you.

 

[JBMDC]

But it's motivation allowed to be discussed? If it's a tit for tat motive, why can't we discuss it?

It obviously was not. There is nothing to suggest it.

 

[x_files]

So he had a troubled past, there were RED FLAGS. I wonder what was done before he was allowed back to HS? Obviously, whatever it was didn't work.
I wonder if his sister lived in fear of him, and the fact he never moved out was stuck dealing with him like being forced to take him out on dates with her and her new bf?

"As a high school student, the gunman in the Dayton, Ohio, massacre had a "hit list" of classmates he wanted to kill or hurt, according to four former students who said they were told by school officials they were on the list."
Classmates say Dayton gunman had a 'hit list' in high school - CNN

 

[alucardsdream]

I watched the CCTV footage it appears he was walking/running down the street shooting at random and was stopped/shot in front of that bar rather than it being his target. It could have been completely random.

With the number of shots he fired, I don't know that he would have had time to aim at anyone in particular...it looked like he was just trying to get as many shots in as possible. If his sister hadn't been a victim, I would have been more inclined to believe it was completely random, but I'm not sure what to make of it. If he was targeting just her specifically, he wouldn't have had to keep firing once she was down. Who knows what was going on in his head...he obviously had some mental issues.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it will become known his sister was known as the good child, and he was the bad seed child. So he probably ruthlessly bullied her growing up. Imo, he detested goodness.

I hope at some point we can get beyond the knee jerk reactions when immediately turning immense pain, and suffering of others into a political agenda before the bodies are even cold.

Imo, instead we must concentrate on the underlying root causes why every mass murderer decides to do these horrific acts.

I cant recall the specifics now, but wasn't it in Ohio where a mass killer wannabe came into a mall seerely stabbing 10 victims? I may have the state wrong, but I do remember a legally armed citizen stopped them from harming many more.

Imo, if we continue to only dwell on whatever weapon the mass killers chose we will continue to get no where.

Imo, it is total illogical problem solving as if banning or restricting firearms is the answer for all of this especially when its known anyone hellbent on murdering people do not, and never will respect any gun laws.

The opposite happens because these individuals are law breakers who will continue to give the finger to any laws in place. Only law abiding people follow, and respects the rule of law. That's why we have seen our overall homicide rate steadily declined in the past 6 years even though there are more legally purchased firearms than ever before in our history.

Even though we have 350 million guns legally owned there are millions of illegal firearms in every community. For those who purchased their weapons legally if they were unable to do so they would do like many do, and illegally obtain one. We see how easily that is to do by just looking at many large inner cities where illegal firearms are used every single day.

Now I most certainly do believe that criminal background checks must include any mental health issue or if the person has ever made violent threats to anyone of any kind.

The background check should also include a deep dive into social media of each one wanting to purchase a firearm.

Imo, because in the end each of these killings it always comes back to the individuals themselves who do this, and their mindset which is often learned only after it's too late.

All social media site owners must start being more proactive making sure they do not supply a platform for anyone spewing hate or violence no matter what hate they are spewing. It must include ALL who do so, and not only some.

Making more restrictive gun laws may make some feel better, but it's just putting a bandaid over a cancer expecting it to heal. Imo.

It will not stop the next mass murderer nor individual murderers from taking place who will once again be hellbent on killing others, and will do so.

We must dive deeply into the mental traits many of these mass murderers have. Each one who have done these murders have similiar traits.

We must have the best mental health professionals to come together in our country to come up with the root cause of why this is happening because it is always each individual's mindset of each one is what put the mass shooting into play in the first place.

Once they can come up with a commonality profile then all investigative agencies, both local, state, and federal can work together, and hopefully will be able to recognize huge red flags of anyone in their community before it happens, and make sure they surveil or keep close tabs on those particular individuals.

Jmho