Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[SnooperDuper]

No doors were kicked in but there is deep current and historical grievances between some of the First Nations residents and the RCMP. I don’t want to speak for everyone here as it’s obviously not the case for all but not everyone there loves the cops.

Yeah, sure, the aboriginals are going to go to bat for two white kids from the south? I could see them standing up for their own kind, not so much a pair of white kids with guns.

 

[aphoto]

Just a heads up, as I know you are new and may not have been able to read every post. On page 1 of each thread, there are several posts, including this one from an admin stating what can and cannot be discussed.

Also off topic subjects include:

Rumors, social media comments, antifa, incels, extensive discussion/philosophizing about Communism/Hitlerism/Nazism, sexual orientation or gender identity, politicizing (i.e. RCMP vs Indigenous Peoples of Canada) ... right on down to police attire and comments on a grandmother’s television.

My apologies. I won’t go in to it any further but it is a critical point in the investigation and goes a long way to explaining what was being discussed. I don’t mean to speculate in any way hence was just sharing points of view I learnt from people on both sides in my time there.

 

[sandbar]

Wikipedia has an itemised list of the hydroelectric power plant locations along the Nelson River - Nelson River Hydroelectric Project - Wikipedia

Manitobawildlands.org - Manitoba Hydro Generation Stations Map

 

[otto]

My apologies. I won’t go in to it any further but it is a critical point in the investigation and goes a long way to explaining what was being discussed. I don’t mean to speculate in any way hence was just sharing points of view I learnt from people on both sides in my time there.

It shouldn't be. There are two armed and dangerous fugitives on the loose near Sundance Manitoba, and everyone should have their eye on the ball regardless of what happened before.

 

[aphoto]

There is 200 year history between indigenous people and colonialists. This relationship has improved significantly under the current and last prime ministers.

This situation has to supersede all other experience, as it is important to everyone to locate the suspects.

This situation certainly should supersede all other experience but if one group of people had given your family grief for centuries would you be inclined to help them if they came knocking on your door? Probably not. I’ve been warned not to get too much in to the politics of the relationship between First Nations people and the Govt/RCMP but it’s an obvious rift. There is definitely members of the community that are willing to help in any way possible and there are some who aren’t there yet. I don’t think it’s enough to make or break the case (IE I don’t think someone is harboring two white kids and not telling the police just because of historic traumas) but someone could well know something they aren’t sharing.

 

[Mountain Misst]

My voyage down the Lower Nelson in Google Maps - River access between Gillam and Sundance will confront the Long Spruce Generating Station if travelling towards Hudson Bay. Once past that obstacle, it's on to York Factory on the banks of Hudson Bay. From there it's small settlements around the Bay, that I can see as feasible stops for foraging from dumpsters, which I'm sure would've all been on high alert by locals.

How about if they travelled upstream to Split Lake? The media report re 'items found' didn't appear to indicate whether the find was upstream, or downstream. Do I need to re-spin my compass?

 

[SteveP]

My apologies. I won’t go in to it any further but it is a critical point in the investigation and goes a long way to explaining what was being discussed. I don’t mean to speculate in any way hence was just sharing points of view I learnt from people on both sides in my time there.

I completely understand, and agree, but most of these topics are off limits because they have all been discussed at length and tend to be the stuff of contentious debate that often leads the thread completely off topic. This thread has been shut down for moderator cleanup many times, and was even shut down for a couple days just within the past week, so we kinda need to tread lightly. JMO

 

[Sparrow2]

My apologies. I won’t go in to it any further but it is a critical point in the investigation and goes a long way to explaining what was being discussed. I don’t mean to speculate in any way hence was just sharing points of view I learnt from people on both sides in my time there.

Your perspective is appreciated and your information on how the door to door search was conducted is helpful.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Renata D'Aliesio‏ @RenataDAliesio
Update from RCMP. Rowboat was found on Friday, Aug. 2, not Saturday. https://www.facebook.com/485338141556769/posts/2340852522671979/?sfnsn=mo …
12:35 PM - 6 Aug 2019

RCMP previously reported the boat located on Saturday which was incorrect.

RCMP updated that boat was located on Friday, August 2 and that items were found related to KM/BS.

Reporter tweeted both incorrect info by RCMP, update by RCMP, and also retweeted RCMP's tweet prefacing that it was a correction.

If you want to challenge the reporters tweets, so be it.

I can't even follow all this mess.

You posted: "We know that the damaged rowboat was spotted on Friday afternoon. The only other thing found that day was a red-and-white water container. The RCMP have just said other items linked to the fugitives have since been found along the shoreline."

The Manitoba RCMP posted that the other items were found on August 2 as well. Do you agree with that or not, given that it contradicts what you posted?

 

[Pyecraft]

Two B.C. fugitives probably ‘hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say

Our rcmp were so slow off the blocks (4 hours to respond to the murdered couple, really?), that the killer of these 3 innocents has had ample time to frame the two suspects, over and again. Any cctv security tapes at gas pumps will have long now been erased, but it might have been helpful to have seen at least one clip of the suspects actually sitting in the Rav4. What we see in fact is only what the killer wants us to - the young dupes wandering around a grocery store, making sure he's put them on camera while he himself, cagely hides in back whenever public scrutiny was looming.
Its not illogical to surmise that the two suspect's own truck simply had mechanical issues and they were picked up by the killer who saw an opportunity in their gullability for excitement. He could easily have planted a possession of theirs at each crime scene, even used their own gun on the 3rd victim if they indeed had one, without the suspects even knowing. Maybe that's why the suspects aren't charged in the first murders - different weapon ballistic evidence.

Plenty of possible reason why all three would have hot-tailed it to such a dead-end location as Gillam. Its likely the killer knew the area from past experience, knew of the train schedules - remember nobody's looking for him at the time of the Rav4 torching. (or today) Perhaps he knew of a train time slowing past right after the burning. Wouldn't be a problem for the killer either to execute these two once he'd got them suitably framed, or indeed even stroked them into believing they would rendevous at some future fictitious point, and sent them on their way to perish.

Quite possibly the two suspects know nothing of the killings at all, but its almost a certainty that they're not experienced enough to have survived this long in such uncompromising bush. They've been dead a while. And sadly, the killer's long away as per the mantracker story above.

I can't imagine the heartbreak felt by all three families of the victims.

 

[otto]

I can't even follow all this mess.

You posted: "We know that the damaged rowboat was spotted on Friday afternoon. The only other thing found that day was a red-and-white water container. The RCMP have just said other items linked to the fugitives have since been found along the shoreline."

The Manitoba RCMP posted that the other items were found on August 2 as well. Do you agree with that or not, given that it contradicts what you posted?

August 2 was Friday. A red and white water container was found as well as a mangled punt or Jon boat (I would call it a skill) on Friday. In addition to the water container and mangled boat, other evidence was found on the shore.

I don't see a contradiction.

 

[copkid]

Is it just me or does it seem strange that some of their identifiable belongings were found in proximity to a random boat?
If they were foolish enough to get in the water in that boat chances of their belongings and the boat landing in the same area seems slim. JMO
The indentifiable belongings would likely never have been found if not for the discovery of the boat
I am very interested to see how long the RCMP think the boat may have been there before it was actually found.
Seems somewhat deliberate to me? JMO

 

[otto]

Two B.C. fugitives probably ‘hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say

Our rcmp were so slow off the blocks (4 hours to respond to the murdered couple, really?), that the killer of these 3 innocents has had ample time to frame the two suspects, over and again. Any cctv security tapes at gas pumps will have long now been erased, but it might have been helpful to have seen at least one clip of the suspects actually sitting in the Rav4. What we see in fact is only what the killer wants us to - the young dupes wandering around a grocery store, making sure he's put them on camera while he himself, cagely hides in back whenever public scrutiny was looming.
Its not illogical to surmise that the two suspect's own truck simply had mechanical issues and they were picked up by the killer who saw an opportunity in their gullability for excitement. He could easily have planted a possession of theirs at each crime scene, even used their own gun on the 3rd victim if they indeed had one, without the suspects even knowing. Maybe that's why the suspects aren't charged in the first murders - different weapon ballistic evidence.

Plenty of possible reason why all three would have hot-tailed it to such a dead-end location as Gillam. Its likely the killer knew the area from past experience, knew of the train schedules - remember nobody's looking for him at the time of the Rav4 torching. (or today) Perhaps he knew of a train time slowing past right after the burning. Wouldn't be a problem for the killer either to execute these two once he'd got them suitably framed, or indeed even stroked them into believing they would rendevous at some future fictitious point, and sent them on their way to perish.

Quite possibly the two suspects know nothing of the killings at all, but its almost a certainty that they're not experienced enough to have survived this long in such uncompromising bush. They've been dead a while. And sadly, the killer's long away as per the mantracker story above.

I can't imagine the heartbreak felt by all three families of the victims.

According to these trackers, when did they use the boat to either cross the river, push into the rapids, or hide under? It's not enough to guess direction and timeline.

 

[otto]

Is it just me or does it seem strange that some of their identifiable belongings were found in proximity to a random boat?
If they were foolish enough to get in the water in that boat chances of their belongings and the boat landing in the same area seems slim. JMO

The identifiable belongings would likely never have been found if not for the discovery of the boat

I am very interested to see how long the RCMP think the boat may have been there before it was actually found. Seems somewhat deliberate to me? JMO

Evidence was found 9 km from the car, the boat was found 13 km from the car. Therefore, belongings were found approx. 4 km from the boat, and the boat became a point of interest through aerial photos. The boat was downstream of rapids, middle seat missing.

I doubt anything along the shore would have been searched if not for the boat. I'm surprised that when the car was found near a train line and a creek, RCMP only searched the train line. Knowing they were dealing with gamers, did they not recognize the obvious "make your own adventure" options : rail, water, road?

 

[missy1974]

My apologies. I won’t go in to it any further but it is a critical point in the investigation and goes a long way to explaining what was being discussed. I don’t mean to speculate in any way hence was just sharing points of view I learnt from people on both sides in my time there.

It's hard not to mention it to try to understand why someone in the area would help them, someone wouldn't come forward, someone wouldn't go straight to the RCMP with information. It's part of the reason I am very cautious about this boat and whatever else was found. I still feel that they wouldn't have set the RAV4 on fire unless they had an immediate way out of there.

Does anyone have the distance from where the RAV4 was found to the river? @otto ... I know you know this lol ETA: you posted it in the post right before mine! Thanks @otto

 

[FactFinder3000]

August 2 was Friday. A red and white water container was found as well as a mangled punt or Jon boat (I would call it a skill) on Friday. In addition to the water container and mangled boat, other evidence was found on the shore.

I don't see a contradiction.

The post said the only things found Aug 2 were a boat and water bottle. Manitoba RCMP today says other items were found as well. That's the contradiction.

I'm just trying to nail down when the other items were found. According to Manitoba RCMP twitter it was Aug 2, which contradicts what was posted here. Was it Jan 2 or not?

 

[copkid]

Two B.C. fugitives probably ‘hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say

Our rcmp were so slow off the blocks (4 hours to respond to the murdered couple, really?), that the killer of these 3 innocents has had ample time to frame the two suspects, over and again. Any cctv security tapes at gas pumps will have long now been erased, but it might have been helpful to have seen at least one clip of the suspects actually sitting in the Rav4. What we see in fact is only what the killer wants us to - the young dupes wandering around a grocery store, making sure he's put them on camera while he himself, cagely hides in back whenever public scrutiny was looming.
Its not illogical to surmise that the two suspect's own truck simply had mechanical issues and they were picked up by the killer who saw an opportunity in their gullability for excitement. He could easily have planted a possession of theirs at each crime scene, even used their own gun on the 3rd victim if they indeed had one, without the suspects even knowing. Maybe that's why the suspects aren't charged in the first murders - different weapon ballistic evidence.

Plenty of possible reason why all three would have hot-tailed it to such a dead-end location as Gillam. Its likely the killer knew the area from past experience, knew of the train schedules - remember nobody's looking for him at the time of the Rav4 torching. (or today) Perhaps he knew of a train time slowing past right after the burning. Wouldn't be a problem for the killer either to execute these two once he'd got them suitably framed, or indeed even stroked them into believing they would rendevous at some future fictitious point, and sent them on their way to perish.

Quite possibly the two suspects know nothing of the killings at all, but its almost a certainty that they're not experienced enough to have survived this long in such uncompromising bush. They've been dead a while. And sadly, the killer's long away as per the mantracker story above.

I can't imagine the heartbreak felt by all three families of the victims.

This is an interesting perspective, I honestly had not considered that KM & BS could be being framed.

Do you have more info on what leads you in this direction?

 

[Seattle1]

I can't even follow all this mess.

You posted: "We know that the damaged rowboat was spotted on Friday afternoon. The only other thing found that day was a red-and-white water container. The RCMP have just said other items linked to the fugitives have since been found along the shoreline."

The Manitoba RCMP posted that the other items were found on August 2 as well. Do you agree with that or not, given that it contradicts what you posted?

It was reported for several days that only a rowboat and red and white water container were located, and a search by RCMP dive team followed.

Today, for the very first time, RCMP announced that other items linked to the fugitives have since been found along the shoreline. (To my knowledge, RCMP has not released any other dates than Aug 2, and reporter not speculating any dates).

That is exactly what the reporter tweeted, and what I posted.

And no, I don't agree that reporter contradicts herself, and that by my posting her tweets, I'm contradicting myself. That's ridiculous.

If you can't understand @RenataDAliesio tweets, take it up with her.

 

[SteveP]

The post said the only things found Jan 2 were a boat and water bottle. Manitoba RCMP today says other stuff was found as well. That's the contradiction.

I'm just trying to nail down when the other stuff was found. According to Manitoba RCMP twitter it was Jan 2, which contradicts what was posted here. Was it Jan 2 or not?

You are 7 months off...pretty sure you meant to type Aug 2 and not Jan 2.

 

[Carpetchick]

My voyage down the Lower Nelson in Google Maps - River access between Gillam and Sundance will confront the Long Spruce Generating Station if travelling towards Hudson Bay. Once past that obstacle, it's on to York Factory on the banks of Hudson Bay. From there it's small settlements around the Bay, that I can see as feasible stops for foraging from dumpsters, which I'm sure would've all been on high alert by locals.

How about if they travelled upstream to Split Lake? The media report re 'items found' didn't appear to indicate whether the find was upstream, or downstream. Do I need to re-spin my compass?

With all due respect, there is absolutely nothing up there. Churchill is the only real town. There is nothing at York Factory. Think abandoned ghost towns.