Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #1

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I wonder if the whole “sibling implies she went out the window thing” is where the disconnect began and why they aren’t allowed to speak to the police or media. Maybe they took an 8 year olds suggestion and made it a key element in their case.

I totally agree.

And we do not know how the questions were ask.
 
As someone who personally has experienced my own child being abducted, catching them with my child later on, then having some people disbelieve me, some of whom I knew closely,(which is a cruel, cruel pain, I can tell you) because in their minds such things are so far fetched and hardly ever happen, I will always, always, err on the side of 'abduction is possible'. I know we have to be objective from all sides here, but just sticking my hand up above a very painful parapet to say that it does happen and being disbelieved is like a 2nd crime on top of the first. I guess my default now is innocent until evidence is overwhelming the opposite. JMO.
So sorry you and your child had to go through that. And then to not be believed by some. Says more about them than it does about you x
 
Well that turned out to be a bit of a damp squib! The reporter said the parents didn't feel able to speak. They showed a brief appeal clip of the aunt speaking and another male and female unidentified with her. There was a brief phone conversation with the grandfather in France, speaking French, with audio translation. He said his granddaughter was "very shy, very reserved, very fearful".

The reporter also stated on the intro that it was the window in her (Nora) room that was found open.

So she definitely was sleeping downstairs then?
 
I’d say 12 year olds are reasonably clued up. When you had it as eight, I agreed completely.

I’m still not taking it seriously, even so, because it sounds like it was just a guess.
Must have been someone else. I didn't mention her age before. :)

It sounds like a guess but it is informative also as to Nora's capabilities IMO.
 
I don't think the family's behaviour is strange at all to be honest. The media are fickle and untrustworthy, they only care about what story sells, I wouldn't be keen on having them taking loads of photos of me and my family and throwing questions at us every time we step outside at the best of times let alone in this kind of nightmare. I would not want my children being extensively questioned by police while they are already experiencing such trauma. They gave an initial statement, nothing more to say. We don't know in what manner the police are questioning them, if they are asking leading questions for example, or have an aggressive tone.

I'm now erring on the side of abduction after the latest updates however the logistics of how they'd manage it aren't quite clear from the limited information we have. Perhaps she did go out first. Or maybe went downstairs trying to find her parents and confused in the new layout and it just so happened the intruder was already in. I think it must have been someone very comfortable with the surroundings who knew exactly what they were doing and where they were going. They had a plan to get in and out undetected and remain that way.

If she'd wandered off and got lost or stuck somewhere you'd expect some sort of trace of her to be found by now. It's difficult terrain, hot, lots of bugs/rats/snakes etc. I can't imagine she'd get far alone. Still hoping for a miracle on this one.
 
Exactly. In the beginning, I read in one article that she is non-verbal and now one of the reports from this morning, said she could speak English and French.

She might have a condition where it's very hard to explain details like how severe 'learning difficulties' are. There are conditions in which people can understand and communicate in multiple languages but where they also have some degree of occasional or situational mutism.

There are conditions where children/people can do maths to a high standard and can't tie shoe laces or cook a ready meal or bathe and dress themselves.

How do you condense these complexities down to a two- or three-word phrase?
 
They were staying in the Sora House?
From looking at guest pictures and reviews of that particular house - open concept and a spiral staircase that leads from the loft bedroom upstairs down to the first floor, right at the lower bedroom. I don’t see the parents closing their door first night in an unfamiliar area. JMO
 
I don't think the family's behaviour is strange at all to be honest. The media are fickle and untrustworthy, they only care about what story sells, I wouldn't be keen on having them taking loads of photos of me and my family and throwing questions at us every time we step outside at the best of times let alone in this kind of nightmare. I would not want my children being extensively questioned by police while they are already experiencing such trauma. They gave an initial statement, nothing more to say. We don't know in what manner the police are questioning them, if they are asking leading questions for example, or have an aggressive tone.

I'm now erring on the side of abduction after the latest updates however the logistics of how they'd manage it aren't quite clear from the limited information we have. Perhaps she did go out first. Or maybe went downstairs trying to find her parents and confused in the new layout and it just so happened the intruder was already in. I think it must have been someone very comfortable with the surroundings who knew exactly what they were doing and where they were going. They had a plan to get in and out undetected and remain that way.

If she'd wandered off and got lost or stuck somewhere you'd expect some sort of trace of her to be found by now. It's difficult terrain, hot, lots of bugs/rats/snakes etc. I can't imagine she'd get far alone. Still hoping for a miracle on this one.
Unless she’s in water? Frequently in these cases we wonder why no trace is found for ages, only for the body to turn up weeks later. (I hope she’s alive, obviously.)
 
They were staying in the Sora House?
From looking at guest pictures and reviews of that particular house - open concept and a spiral staircase that leads from the loft bedroom upstairs down to the first floor, right at the lower bedroom. I don’t see the parents closing their door first night in an unfamiliar area. JMO

I thought so too. All the other houses, that are shown on the site at least, don't look suitable for kids as they seem very high up and only have one bedroom. From the snippets in articles it seems to be the only one that fits because the rest don't really have windows.

I don't have kids but I cannot fathom how anyone would bring kids there. It looks really dangerous. I couldn't relax with kids running about up those heights. I also have ASD myself and the place sounds like a nightmare for anyone with sensory issues (no/little light, insect/animal noises, heat as there's no aircon, no locks or security)
 
“There are no security guards at the The Dusun area or proper CCTV to watch the surroundings. There are also easy exits even if the main gate is locked.

So that explains why she wasn't seen on cctv - the resort is not fenced/walled in, anybody could get in or out undetected and so could have Nora if she wandered around by herself.

7 August 2019:

Fingerprints are found at jungle cottage where Nora Quoirin disappeared: Malaysian police admit possibility of criminal element for first time in disappearance of British girl, 15, as 200 people, including local tribes, search for her

Malaysian police have admitted for the first time that there is a possibility missing British teenager Nora Quoirin was kidnapped, after previously saying there was no evidence of an abduction.

They confirmed today that they had discovered fingerprints at the jungle cottage where Nora, 15, was reported missing on Sunday and are not 'ruling out a criminal element'.

[...]

Negeri Sembilan deputy police chief Che Zakaria Othman said that a forensic team was analyzing the fingerprints but declined to give any more details.

Fingerprints are found at jungle cottage in Malaysia where Nora Quoirin disappeared | Daily Mail Online

To me this feels a bit like they're humouring the family now. Lets do some forensics to calm them down .... LE must be knowing that unknown fingerprints won't mean much if anything in a semi-public space?

Imo the open window is a red herring. The doors were open it was said in the beginning, more likely then she left via a door. Maybe she was looking for her parents or for the bathroom and accidentally stumbled outside. Once outside, it was dark, she panicked.

I still think they should search the whole resort again. The resort owners said they and the staff searched the whole place until Sunday afternoon, that's about 8 hours maximum. Is that long enough? Did the search teams ever search inside the resort? All houses, rooms, crawlspaces, vehicles, sheds etc?
 
I don't have kids but I cannot fathom how anyone would bring kids there. It looks really dangerous. I couldn't relax with kids running about up those heights. I also have ASD myself and the place sounds like a nightmare for anyone with sensory issues (no/little light, insect/animal noises, heat as there's no aircon, no locks or security)

This is exactly why I don’t find it strange that she would do something out of the ordinary like go outside by herself. The houses are very open concept. I wonder if they really had everything closed tight for the night. How could you sleep in a place that doesn’t have AC without opening windows and doors to get some sort of breeze? I see that their temps run about 90-92 degrees with 96% humidity. I personally wouldn’t be able to sleep :(
 
I hate to say it but there are more than 3 possibilities in this case. Just as in the McCann case, Mr Gamble seems to want to ignore the possibility of some sort of parental or family involvement.
I'm not saying there is any evidence of this at the moment that we know of but it is a possibility.
I took from his statement "harmed by someone" covers this. xo
 
7 August 2019:

Missing Irish teen: Orang Asli community believes she is no longer in the surrounding jungle

Malay Mail spoke to some of the Orang Asli from the communities nearby who have joined the search for the 15-year-old who arrived here last Sunday for a two-week family holiday but went missing the following day.

One of the locals who only wants to be known as “Pak” said the surrounding jungle is their “playground” since they were born here and they know the place well.

Pak said there were two cases of missing persons before this around the resort and with the help of the locals, they managed to find both within 24 hours.

“It is Day Four now, impossible she is still here. Even if she fainted or anything untoward happened while she is lost... the police canine (K9) unit would have detected her scent.

“Furthermore, we ourselves searched all the difficult areas and showed the search team, the vicinity around the search zone where the terrain is difficult and dangerous,” Pak said while taking a break from the search this afternoon.

20190807AZ11.jpeg


Missing Irish teen: Orang Asli community believes she is no longer in the surrounding jungle | Malay Mail

I have seen several pictures where someone (searcher? LE? Army?) Is carrying a weapon. Why is this deemed necessary when searching for a missing child?
 
What do you mean by that?

I've worked with special needs all my life. IMOO, in the pictures, she looks afraid/shy. I've had kids and adults who are very calm and good natured but ....won't go up steps or won't leave the mother without anxiety.

So I believe this family, I feel she was taken. She looks to timid to even walk outside alone.

If there was a risk, I know think these parents would have gone on this trip.
 
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