TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

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Made me think there for a second ;) had to look it up! Here is an excerpt from the article:

“Despite the fact that it’s been nearly 30 years since the murder took place, John Burmester is working on the case. Burmester is a retired Houston Police Department homicide investigator. He is one of five retired detectives who, working as volunteers, are looking into cold cases for the Walker County Sheriff’s Department and the Huntsville Police Department.”
Maybe the boyfriend wasn’t an inmate but worked there.
 
Made me think there for a second ;) had to look it up! Here is an excerpt from the article:

“Despite the fact that it’s been nearly 30 years since the murder took place, John Burmester is working on the case. Burmester is a retired Houston Police Department homicide investigator. He is one of five retired detectives who, working as volunteers, are looking into cold cases for the Walker County Sheriff’s Department and the Huntsville Police Department.”
That is the first I have heard about her buying anything or about her being seen getting into a station wagon. I wonder if this man is still working on the case.

@mcluver23 Maybe he wasn't really a "boyfriend". Could just have been someone she wanted to meet or had been writing to.
 
I always wondered if she was going to meet someone at the prison for a Halloween get together, but not someone who worked at the prison or an inmate. For the same reason that teens meet at cemeteries on Halloween, meeting at a prison on Halloween might have seen like a cool idea. (Like they were planning a Halloween party)
 
I always wondered if she was going to meet someone at the prison for a Halloween get together, but not someone who worked at the prison or an inmate. For the same reason that teens meet at cemeteries on Halloween, meeting at a prison on Halloween might have seen like a cool idea. (Like they were planning a Halloween party)

Yes...searched for a possible Halloween party's on that date...posters... anything...didn't find anything....otherwise I would have shared it with you. BUT I'm not perfect...so maybe an other member can come up with something.
 
I always wondered if she was going to meet someone at the prison for a Halloween get together, but not someone who worked at the prison or an inmate. For the same reason that teens meet at cemeteries on Halloween, meeting at a prison on Halloween might have seen like a cool idea. (Like they were planning a Halloween party)
If she was really from the Aransas Pass area she was going a really long way to party. They said it looked like she had been wearing the same clothes for a while or that she had slept in them I think one account stated. Might have taken her longer than she thought to find rides going in the direction she wanted to go.
 
She might be too young. They tend to stay away from child cases.

I really hope they will make an exception for her.
I believe the main reason for them to stay away from child cases is because they’re more likely to be killed by their own family and they don’t want to get caught up in that (especially because they use family to identify the victims).
However, I think it’s very unlikely that WCJD was killed by a family member. So hopefully a collaboration between the LE investigating her case and the DDP will eventually happen. I fear it’s the only way she will ever be identified.
 
She might be too young. They tend to stay away from child cases.

I doubt that that’s the reason. They stay away from child cases because it’s so likely that a family member was the killer—as I understand it, their mission is to identify the person, not solve the case for LE. But in this case, no matter how young she was, it’s extremely unlikely that she was killed by a family member.
 
I don't understand the reluctance to accept and pursue the information from the Port Aransas South Jetty article from 2010. Astonishingly poor handicapping, if you ask me. Just because it took you guys 9 years to find it, and the information doesn't align with some of your pet theories, you seem group-reluctant to recognize what you have.

That single article is exponentially more valuable than digging through old yearbooks, or tossing out one idea after another.

I'm referring to this article, linked earlier in this thread: Cold case | Port Aransas South Jetty

That is hardly a trash dubious online source. The author Dan Parker has a journalism degree from the University of Texas-Austin, which is one of the premier journalism schools in the country and especially during the years Parker attended. He has had a long distinguished career at major dailies, and was elected to at least one Hall of Fame based on journalistic contributions. Parker still works for the same paper, or at least he did as of March 2019, the last byline I found. The source Parker quoted for the article -- John Burmester -- is a veteran respected homicide detective from Houston. He retired and joined a cold case squad in Hunstville. From a quick google he is 73 years old and still lives in Huntsville. No doubt he remembers this case. He wouldn't bite. He could verify and perhaps expand on the information from that 2010 article. But you have to ask. I doubt he's going to register on Websleuths tomorrow and volunteer everything he knows.

The lack of trust and usage of the media is preposterous. These are great people. They want to help. People of Parker's age grew up when journalism was one of the most admired and pursued careers imaginable. Yet when I sample these true crime sites and blogs the one thing I seldom if ever detect is competent understanding of the media, or sufficient emphasis. Walker County stands out as uncaring and lazy compared to the jurisdiction that pursued the Orange Socks case. We can understand that and moan about it, or we can use the Walker County media to apply pressure on the local authorities. Direct comparison is a powerful tool.

John Burmester and his cold case colleagues in 2010 would have had greater access than anything you guys have enjoyed, no matter the online digging. That's why the details don't match. They aren't supposed to match. Not everything from those police files made the newspapers in 1980. This wasn't exactly the O.J. Simpson case with the elite investigative reporters assigned.

The girl stepped out of that (estimated 1973 or 1974) car at the Gulf station. Okay, so we basically know she hitchhikes in cars. On that day. So why are we switching to trucks as favored departure and crime scene? Sorry, that makes zero sense. Or almost zero sense. There have been some high profile trucker serial killers. Big deal. There are a heck of a lot more murderers who used basic vehicles than trucks. In adopting trucks as likely, you guys are applying an adjustment far away from the norm. I don't like adjustments. People place far too much faith in low percentage adjustments. If the girl spent a considerable amount of time in the Hitchin Post, and was seen speaking at length to a waitress and perhaps others, there was far too much risk for a trucker to pick her up in the same parking lot

She wasn't being logical. Asking about visiting a prison at 6:30 PM and again an hour or two later. Sounds like blind determination to me. She didn't ask about place to stay overnight. Far more likely than not, the blind determination continued. She used her new map and sense of direction to walk in the direction of the prison. But it's too far. Already dark. She defaults to hitchhiking again. And a car picks her up. Sadly, the wrong car.

Hours pass before the murder, and body dumped. Therefore the straight line route means nothing. If this is a local but inexperienced killer he could take her anywhere, before departing later and deciding on that spot as the dump site. Normally I don't like the theory of multiple perpetrators. But in this case it makes great logic. That's why I was intrigued by that 2010 story, with three guys supposedly inside the car. It is much more common for multiple offenders to subdue the victim and take her to a residence. We have the Hillside Strangler example and Charles Ng, among countless others. The more articulate and calming presence is used as the lure. Imagine a well spoken young guy as the driver, persuading her into the car. Once they hear her plan they convince her the prison wouldn't be open at this hour. Don't worry. We'll let you stay at our place. It's not far away. You can clean up and be presentable for your boyfriend in the morning. We'll drive you there.

Then the betrayal begins.

Obviously this is merely one theory. But I've always preferred that type of thing, upon learning of this case years ago. I'm glad I found this thread because that John Burmester material is light years more interesting and significant than anything else I've come across. For example, the idea of isolating one person from a 1980 hotel stay or 1979 choir picture is next to nothing. That's why DNA solves cases and yearbook scrambling does not.

Dan Parker and John Burmester. Not complicated. When someone has demonstrated interest and knowledge previously, they are big favorite to be interested and helpful again, especially if the correct questions are posed. Correct means plenty of them.

DNA Doe Project can identify this victim but only if Walker County is suitably pressured and shamed to take the prerequisite steps. Looks like the Huntsville Item is the largest paper in the county: itemonline.com
 
Actually, in checking closer Dan Parker is now News Editor of that paper. He has fewer bylines due to that role, but still writes some articles.

And BTW, just because the article dates from 2010 doesn't mean it was available online throughout that time frame. This is a rather small weekly paper. It could have been a long time before they prioritized digital and made their archived content available online.
 
I don't understand the reluctance to accept and pursue the information from the Port Aransas South Jetty article from 2010. Astonishingly poor handicapping, if you ask me. Just because it took you guys 9 years to find it, and the information doesn't align with some of your pet theories, you seem group-reluctant to recognize what you have.

That single article is exponentially more valuable than digging through old yearbooks, or tossing out one idea after another.

I'm referring to this article, linked earlier in this thread: Cold case | Port Aransas South Jetty

That is hardly a trash dubious online source. The author Dan Parker has a journalism degree from the University of Texas-Austin, which is one of the premier journalism schools in the country and especially during the years Parker attended. He has had a long distinguished career at major dailies, and was elected to at least one Hall of Fame based on journalistic contributions. Parker still works for the same paper, or at least he did as of March 2019, the last byline I found. The source Parker quoted for the article -- John Burmester -- is a veteran respected homicide detective from Houston. He retired and joined a cold case squad in Hunstville. From a quick google he is 73 years old and still lives in Huntsville. No doubt he remembers this case. He wouldn't bite. He could verify and perhaps expand on the information from that 2010 article. But you have to ask. I doubt he's going to register on Websleuths tomorrow and volunteer everything he knows.

The lack of trust and usage of the media is preposterous. These are great people. They want to help. People of Parker's age grew up when journalism was one of the most admired and pursued careers imaginable. Yet when I sample these true crime sites and blogs the one thing I seldom if ever detect is competent understanding of the media, or sufficient emphasis. Walker County stands out as uncaring and lazy compared to the jurisdiction that pursued the Orange Socks case. We can understand that and moan about it, or we can use the Walker County media to apply pressure on the local authorities. Direct comparison is a powerful tool.

John Burmester and his cold case colleagues in 2010 would have had greater access than anything you guys have enjoyed, no matter the online digging. That's why the details don't match. They aren't supposed to match. Not everything from those police files made the newspapers in 1980. This wasn't exactly the O.J. Simpson case with the elite investigative reporters assigned.

The girl stepped out of that (estimated 1973 or 1974) car at the Gulf station. Okay, so we basically know she hitchhikes in cars. On that day. So why are we switching to trucks as favored departure and crime scene? Sorry, that makes zero sense. Or almost zero sense. There have been some high profile trucker serial killers. Big deal. There are a heck of a lot more murderers who used basic vehicles than trucks. In adopting trucks as likely, you guys are applying an adjustment far away from the norm. I don't like adjustments. People place far too much faith in low percentage adjustments. If the girl spent a considerable amount of time in the Hitchin Post, and was seen speaking at length to a waitress and perhaps others, there was far too much risk for a trucker to pick her up in the same parking lot

She wasn't being logical. Asking about visiting a prison at 6:30 PM and again an hour or two later. Sounds like blind determination to me. She didn't ask about place to stay overnight. Far more likely than not, the blind determination continued. She used her new map and sense of direction to walk in the direction of the prison. But it's too far. Already dark. She defaults to hitchhiking again. And a car picks her up. Sadly, the wrong car.

Hours pass before the murder, and body dumped. Therefore the straight line route means nothing. If this is a local but inexperienced killer he could take her anywhere, before departing later and deciding on that spot as the dump site. Normally I don't like the theory of multiple perpetrators. But in this case it makes great logic. That's why I was intrigued by that 2010 story, with three guys supposedly inside the car. It is much more common for multiple offenders to subdue the victim and take her to a residence. We have the Hillside Strangler example and Charles Ng, among countless others. The more articulate and calming presence is used as the lure. Imagine a well spoken young guy as the driver, persuading her into the car. Once they hear her plan they convince her the prison wouldn't be open at this hour. Don't worry. We'll let you stay at our place. It's not far away. You can clean up and be presentable for your boyfriend in the morning. We'll drive you there.

Then the betrayal begins.

Obviously this is merely one theory. But I've always preferred that type of thing, upon learning of this case years ago. I'm glad I found this thread because that John Burmester material is light years more interesting and significant than anything else I've come across. For example, the idea of isolating one person from a 1980 hotel stay or 1979 choir picture is next to nothing. That's why DNA solves cases and yearbook scrambling does not.

Dan Parker and John Burmester. Not complicated. When someone has demonstrated interest and knowledge previously, they are big favorite to be interested and helpful again, especially if the correct questions are posed. Correct means plenty of them.

DNA Doe Project can identify this victim but only if Walker County is suitably pressured and shamed to take the prerequisite steps. Looks like the Huntsville Item is the largest paper in the county: itemonline.com
This is the first time I’ve personally seen this article. It’s interesting and the sighting of the car is something to think about. Although as it states in the article, the eyewitness didn’t actually see her get in the car. Mind you, nobody saw her get in a truck either.

I’m guessing it’s probably less a case of us websleuthers having a strong bias/vendetta towards the journalist and more the fact that we like to pursue a range of theories and avenues. The detective himself talks about hunting through yearbooks as an avenue of enquiry. If sleuthers choose to spend their time doing that then in my opinion, more power to them. It’s really not something to get riled up about. We all have different skill sets.
 
I don't understand the reluctance to accept and pursue the information from the Port Aransas South Jetty article from 2010. Astonishingly poor handicapping, if you ask me. Just because it took you guys 9 years to find it, and the information doesn't align with some of your pet theories, you seem group-reluctant to recognize what you have.

That single article is exponentially more valuable than digging through old yearbooks, or tossing out one idea after another.

Snipped by me. Welcome to websleuths! Websleuths is a community of cohesiveness, collaboration, and a safe place to express ideas. We don’t readily promote one source of information as the end all, nor do we shame or criticize others who think differently. Are you the author or friend of that article? You heavily promote it in a way that speaks to that. Otherwise, your contributions and our contributions are equally valid and appreciated.

Also...we never, ever victim shame. You said she wasn’t being logical, asking about a prison at 6:30pm....She might have had many reasons for that. One of the simplest being, safety. In a young girl’s mind, alone on the road, dropping taboo concepts or ideas like “visiting a prisoner, bikers, drug dealers” gives her a false edge. It can indeed deter the general public from wanting to mess with her. It’s very logical to the developing mind of a teen or displaced kid. I’ve been there.
 
@Awsi Dooger how would you recommend putting pressure on Walker County to use DNA Doe Project? I'm not sure I would know how to go about that myself. I would assume the papers or editor could help but require a spectacular followup story that leaves a lasting impression and resonates with many. This is a story that would keep on giving in the right hands...professionally speaking IMOO.
I'm a small town gal myself, enlighten me. I mean that in all seriousness. I would love nothing more than WCJD receive the exposure she deserves and see this case to resolution.
 
Oh my that girl looks exactly like CarlK's sketch of WCJD :eek:!!! And she has a very short chin too!
I have already asked Carl K about this. The girl in the still from the VHS, from the Rebekah Home, is not WCJD. She was found alive and well.
Also Carl is a volunteer at the DNA Doe Project and she is currently not in the project.
 
Actually, in checking closer Dan Parker is now News Editor of that paper. He has fewer bylines due to that role, but still writes some articles.

And BTW, just because the article dates from 2010 doesn't mean it was available online throughout that time frame. This is a rather small weekly paper. It could have been a long time before they prioritized digital and made their archived content available online.

I think you are right about the fact that this article wasn't available online and more recently added. I (or anybody else) would have found it earlier if it was around. Actually I was very happy with this article, including info from a respectable source. An insider, not a bla, bla person to me. Some reactions on it (sorry, not to be offensive, at least trying not to be), kind of dismissing, questioning the content or the source, felt almost like I had personally taken it out the top hat. And because nobody else found it earlier it couldn't be true. It's simple, we cannot ignore the content and it's there.
 
@Awsi Dooger Actually I have been thinking about that article a lot since it was posted here and I logged on today to discuss it. It was the first time I had seen it and it changed the way I was thinking about WCJD. So now we are told she sat for a while and even bought (or someone paid for) a milkshake. Previously, given the information available, I had assumed she was quick to run out because the waitress was questioning her and she feared being discovered. Now not so much. Seems the waitress started up a conversation with her and she could have been there for a more substantial amount of time. Maybe she was tired and wanted to sit for a while before continuing on her journey. The station wagon with the three guys is also intriguing. I had found a comment online from a woman who was suspicious of her ex and said he told her either him and his brother(s) or friend(s) had done some bad things in Huntsville including killing a girl. The comment was left on something about WCJD.

I hadn't had time to took up the detective yet. I wonder if he would be willing to discuss what he knows?

@Spindlebrook Yes that picture was creepy!
 
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