Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[otto]

When their bodies were found, Lucas had bare feet and Chynna had one shoe. Lucas may have been ready for bed and she was still in the process of removing her shoes.

Alternatively, if any conversation was taking place between the teens and Lucas, Chynna may have started putting on her shoes in anticipation of leaving the van for whatever reason.

They would have been aware of any vehicle that was stopped near them in the middle of the night. Even if they were asleep and putting on shoes when they encountered the suspects, they were not in the van when found.

They were in the ditch, an easy lazy place to drag a body. It seems that their third victim was just lying on the ground at the pullout 2 km South of their truck. The suspects did very little to hide bodies, and I doubt they removed bodies from the van to put in the ditch.

 

[Seattle1]

Meadow Lake SK gas station reported the teens to RCMP and CCTV footage was obtained of the teens with the Rav4 on July 21. CBC News. Employees at the gas station reported the sighting and footage to RCMP because the teens were all over the news as 'missing.' That footage proved that they were not missing.

Clearly they were not suspects prior to the Meadow Lake sighting, but afterward they were. Their vehicle was burned near a murder victim, and they were driving the wrong vehicle.

Yes, I agree!

Except you also said you believed the teens were named suspects on July 21 -- when AUS stated they were being hunted, and not July 23 as police later reported.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Someone suggested that the reason they were in the same position is because they were dragged to the ditch and rolled over so that one arm was under their bodies.

There's nothing like a little home experiment. I just got my husband to drag me first by the legs and then by the arms. When he rolled me over, one arm was under my body.

 

[otto]

Yes, I agree!

Except you also said you believed the teens were named suspects on July 21 -- when AUS stated they were being hunted, and not July 23 as police later reported.

I wasn't able to find a link confirming that RCMP changed status of the teens from missing to suspects, but I associated it with information about the Meadow Lake sighting where they were driving a Rav4 in Sask and not missing.

 

[otto]

There's nothing like a little home experiment. I just got my husband to drag me first by the legs and then by the arms. When he rolled me over, one arm was under my body.

Appreciate you taking one for the team! It makes sense and explains why both of them have one arm under their bodies, heads in the same direction, facing West ... they were shot, dragged to the ditch and rolled over.

 

[otto]

My impression is that the families of the suspects have been kept completely in the dark and are upset that they have not had more information about how it happened, why it happened ... not sure anyone outside the family can answer those questions.

 

[JudgeJudi]

They were in the ditch, an easy lazy place to drag a body. It seems that their third victim was just lying on the ground at the pullout 2 km South of their truck. They did very little to hide bodies, and I doubt that removed bodies from the van to put in the ditch.

Yes, if they were already outside, the ditch would be the obvious place, but are you suggesting that they were outside at 11:30pm or later of their own accord and Lucas had bare feet? That doesn't seem plausible to me. Or are you suggesting they were made to leave the van and then shot? RCMB would know if they were inside the van when they were shot as there would no doubt be gunshot residue.

 

[Seattle1]

@Seattle1 I think you have the July 21 date incorrect. On July 22 at 4:51pm PST the BCRCMP were asking "the public if anyone could identify the drawing of the deceased man" (Mr. Dyck) as well asking for Bryer and Kam to "contact police right away to let them know they were okay". Here is a link to the BC RCMP webpage and dates and alert request: RCMP in British Columbia - BC RCMP announce update in the ongoing northern BC homicide investigations

July 21 is actual date of tweet by AUS reporter Alexis citing Canada police are hunting for the teens after 3rd body located.

The "tip" and status change of teens by RCMP from 'missing' to 'suspect' is cited as July 23.

Why did AUS know the teens were suspects on 7/21 before RCMP announced to public on 7/23?

 

[Allgoodusernamestaken]

The thing is, most of those "creepy" kids end up growing out of it. Maybe they'll still be weird, but not Dateline weird. Even when it comes to complete remorseless sociopaths, the majority of sociopaths are non-violent. So I think that's what we have to figure out, what tips the scales one way or the other? How can we identify people who are at risk and help them before this happens?

I know you guys are probably tired of me talking about this but I really feel like this case is a microcosm of deeper issues in our society and larger stuff that we have not addressed as a society. I just keep feeling like none of this would have happened if just a few things went right, and of course that has implications for the next time something like this may happen. It's easy to just write them off as "they were monsters, rot in hell" but I think (and research shows that) human beings are way more complicated than that, and also that doesn't help us for preventing this next time.

This article talks about school shootings but this is kind of a similar perpetrator profile and age group, and I think there's a lot that's relevant here. I recommend reading the whole article but I excerpted it. I also bolded stuff that seems particularly relevant to either one or both of these two. So I guess we can kind of make a guess as to what may have been going on in Kam's head based on what the research shows about these general shooter profiles.

School Shooters: What's Their Path To Violence?

I agree! Our mental health system needs some changes or this will keep happen unfortunately. Thank you for pointing this out I think a lot of people have a hard time looking passed what they’ve done and miss what’s been done to them (or not done) to make them do this so we can prevent others.

 

[JudgeJudi]

An RCMP spokesperson declined to tell CBC News what was found, citing the ongoing investigation, but said they were personal items.

The mayor of Gillam said the stretch of river near where the items were found is very turbulent.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5237174?__twitter_impression=true

Does this turbulent stretch of river assist any of our local members in establishing more precisely the location of the items? The sleeping bag was found tangled up in some willows.

 

[SBurrus]

I’m sure this has been said by others, but the “there” to me was just AS meaning he didn’t know where there was specifically. He (thought he) knew Alberta generally, but had only assumed Red Deer because of a family connection. Didn’t seem off to me at all, but who knows.

It is an interesting use of the word "there", indeed. Which brings up a question; I think I knew this at one time but now so much time has passed and there has been so much discussion of the case, I have forgotten.

Do we know, for sure, the intended destination of the two boys was Whitehorse? Did AS mention that in his first interview?

I'm getting older now...memory isn't as sharp as it used to be and life/work is busy so I just can't recall details like that as I used to when I was younger.

 

[JudgeJudi]

DBM

 

[SBurrus]

DBM

Hmm...in that interview, the great-uncle of BS mentions they were headed to Whitehorse, which answers my previous question.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hmm...in that interview, the great-uncle of BS mentions they were headed to Whitehorse, which answers my previous question.

I'm glad it answered your question. Sorry I had to delete the post but the live stream had finished and no-one else would have been able to watch.

 

[JudgeJudi]

We're waiting to hear the results of autopsies expected to be done on two bodies RCMP say they believe are B.C. fugitives Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky. Meanwhile, people in Northern Manitoba are hoping life will return to normal now that the manhunt is done.

https://twitter.com/AustinGrabish · 12h12 hours ago

AG's understanding is that after the autopsies are done, BC RCMP will be putting out some kind of press release.

More info in the video.

Interestingly, AG did a live BBC radio interview yesterday at the end of which he was told this story is the most read story on the BBC's website. Obviously it's huge here in Oz too.

 

[musicaljoke]

This article was posted upthread (thank you!) and I highly recommend it, even though I am not in full agreement with it.
‘Murder is not a private matter’: RCMP owe public more answers about suspected B.C. killers, critics say | The Star

I'm a privacy fanatic, so I'm biased toward being sympathetic to arguments based on privacy, but I agree in the main; a bit more transparency, so long as it does not impede the investigation or prosecution, is needful.

I sort of disagree with the issue of revealing the details of Professor Dyck's death. At this juncture (assuming the suspects are indeed dead) and assuming the family made the request not to disclose, I feel that deferring to the family of the victim is correct. However, if Professor Dyck was murdered by the same means as the couple on the van, then back before the suspects were IDd and seen elsewhere, the means should have been disclosed, for reasons of public safety on those roadways.

Quite a few of the questions the article asks are IMHO things in need of answering, though after the suspect autopsies and IDs are completed (probably can't be known for sure without that). A toxicology result (on the suspects) needs to be included in the release, as well.

I also hope that Canadians will demand answers, real answers this time (conflating it with releasing the names was dissembling at best) on why it took over 4 days for them to reveal that anyone had been murdered. Expecting people to read between the lines that "suspicious" means "murdered" is preposterous; if they mean murder, then say murder.

I'll close by saying that I have no rights on this issue, nor any say in it, and that's as it should be - I'm not Canadian. This is a matter for Canadians to decide and, if they so wish, change, but they can't make a decision on that without knowing facts.

Saskatchewan RCMP launched a pilot program this past March, that provides alerts by phone, text, or email to individuals who sign up for the service.

I'm not sure if this is already offered elsewhere, but it's a way of getting information directly into the hands of the public.

New provincial crime watch notification system launched in Saskatchewan | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

[JuneBug67]

It is an interesting use of the word "there", indeed. Which brings up a question; I think I knew this at one time but now so much time has passed and there has been so much discussion of the case, I have forgotten.

Do we know, for sure, the intended destination of the two boys was Whitehorse? Did AS mention that in his first interview?

I'm getting older now...memory isn't as sharp as it used to be and life/work is busy so I just can't recall details like that as I used to when I was younger.

BS actually told his grandma and his father different things. He told his grandma Whitehorse, and he told his father Alberta. AS has said he assumed they were heading to Red Deer specifically, because of a family connection. Both stated destinations were supposed to be for work.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wasn't able to find a link confirming that RCMP changed status of the teens from missing to suspects, but I associated it with information about the Meadow Lake sighting where they were driving a Rav4 in Sask and not missing.

See if this link is the one you need. There is a picture of the sighting, plus info about the change to suspect status.
RCMP in British Columbia - Police request the public's assistance in locating the suspects connected to Northern BC investigations

 

[musicaljoke]

Yes and no. Boat was found at 13 km. Personal items were found at 9km. Bodies were found at 8km. Bodies were 1km from personal items. How fuzzy should that be?

Well, it wouldn't be exactly 13, 9 and 8kms, because that would be way too precise. And we don't know if those are measured as the crow flies, or if they are the distances for humans who are hoofing it. So I think it's reasonable to have a wee bit of fuzziness on the distances.

 

[brett1968]

Is there anything more known about the perps’ cause of death? After all the misery & horror they caused the victims’ families, I have to admit I’m hoping they didn’t die on their own terms by deliberate suicide.

Daily Mail this morning seems to think they died of exposure, I’m wondering if that’s conjecture or based on anything.....

How discarded sleeping bag led police to bodies of Canadian teen serial killers | Daily Mail Online

Knowing the Daily Mail, it's conjecture.