Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[OldCop]

The victims were found outside the van. Chynna was wearing one shoe. She wasn't sleeping with her shoes on, and she was alive at 11:30PM. It's highly likely that she was outside the van wearing at least one shoe when she was shot.

Also, from the Fort Nelson gas station footage we know that they removed their shoes in the van, even for driving. Any footwear means they were outside the van.

I'm betting that they were killed outside the van. If the shot was fired from inside the van, I think Kam was outside distracting the victims while Bryer fired the first shot through the window because he was curious about whether it worked, and Bryer was curious what it looked like when people are shot. How's that for a wild game scenario theory for non-virtual murder!

I just thought of another possible scenario, actually three, that might fit what we know about the murders of Chynna and Lucas; the shoes on, men arguing, bodies outside the van scenario:
1) What if Lucas and Chynna needed to relieve themselves? The van was in a pretty open spot. We know there was a tree line towards the river that was visible in the photos of the area. They had been sitting by the road for hours and we know they had a picnic. What if they walked into the trees for a call of nature and came back to find Kam & Breyer snooping around their van? An argument ensued and Lucas and Chynna were murdered. 2). This theory could also hold if Lucas went alone to relieve himself and came back to find the men at their van. Knowing Chynna was inside and fearing for her safety he got into the argument with Kam. Breyer went in and found Chynna in the back of the van. She may have heard the commotion outside and was putting on her shoes to go out and see what was going on. He fired the shot to get her moving. This would explain the appearance of the glass breaking from inside. Once outside, they were both killed.
3). The third possibility is that L and C were both sleeping. They heard S and B pull up outside. Lucas went outside to investigate and got into the argument. The rest happened as in theory 2.
MOO

 

[Pyecraft]

Kam and Bryer were looking to get a game high through same non-virtual experiences (my theory). I think one accosted the victims while the other was strategically nearby taking aim.

The witness described a middle of the night scene with one Caucasian bearded man, nearly the same height as Lucas, standing in the middle of the road and who made her so uncomfortable that she kept driving. Maybe that Caucasian bearded man had a sneaky friend with a gun.

So far north Otto, I'm assuming visibility would still be fairly decent, at that hour in July.
If Kam was the Caucasian guy, then their truck with camper top would be parked up close-by, no?
Can't blame her for not noticing such detail though, as she must have been forced to steer around him standing in the middle of the road. She surely got a great look at the bearded man, and not likely to ever get it out of her psyche. Her photo sketch doesn't look much like Kam, tho, imo.

 

[Zella]

We need to remember they lived with family members, were going to school and graduated, worked in Walmart and had a group of friends online and in real life, they weren't just "holed up in a basement" and isolated from the world

That was one thing I noticed. BS's name didn't come up in this regard, so I do think he was more isolated beyond school and work, but people recalled seeing KM at local hockey games, LAN tournaments, and coffee shops. Seems like he did get out some. Compared to the gamers I know, he struck me as a bit more of a social butterfly than what is usual.

 

[MistyWaters]

There may not be a trial for these two, but there certainly will be an inquest and, if it turns out that there's more to this story than mere conjecture has so far revealed, then there may even one day be a trial, if it is uncovered that another as yet unknown person (or persons) was involved.

This may be someone who it might prove is actually the real guilty party in one, (if not all), of these murders, (and we really don't even yet know that the two suspects found deceased weren't themselves murdered), do we?

I’m not so sure it can be said there will certainly be an inquest held. There’s no indication their deaths were a direct result of interaction with police nor would changes in police policy or procedure have saved their lives. Quite the opposite, they were suspects in three murders who were intentionally avoiding detection and died without anyone present, through their own actions.

Inquests are not held as a routine matter. They’re held to address deaths which occur when the reason is not clear. In this case I don’t think there’s any question - the two were evading arrest. We already know an autopsy is underway, to determine the cause and manner of death.

BBM
Why are inquests held?
While the systems may vary between provinces and territories (coroner or medical examiner), the purpose is the same. An inquest or a fatality inquiry must answer five questions concerning the deceased: who he was; when he died; where he died; how he died; and the manner of death e.g. accident, homicide, suicide, natural or undetermined.2 An inquest is not held to determine civil or criminal liability.3 Recommendations arising out of an inquest may be used to try to prevent similar deaths from occurring.
CNPS – Inquests and Fatality Inquiries

 

[SnooperDuper]

Wow. I thought Websleuths would be about discussing possibilities and alternate theories, not just hammering out the mainstream view. If you're just going to go with the scenario the cops have given you without any evidence, what's the point of talking about it? Having another suspect involved is not a conspiracy. This case makes no sense. Maybe the cops have something wrong. It would be nice to hear ideas from people and not be shut down. I have learned from my life that truth can be a lot stranger than fiction.

The RCMP has said they have "significant" evidence linking the two fugitives to both crime scenes. It's not that there is "no evidence" but that LE hasn't released it yet.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think another huge factor in so many of these cases is Social Isolation. So many of them are holed up in a basement, not interacting with others, "loner-types". They have few friends other than themselves. They spend much of their time on-line or in a fantasy game world, brooding, depressed and angry. A catalyst for violence.

Totally agree. There is a lot of research indicating a link between social isolation and violence, and between conduct disorders and depression, etc.

Now this is interesting and possibly relevant to this case (bolded by me)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e3-b7d1-7153ad47b549_story.html?noredirect=on

Research we have conducted with political scientist and geneticist James Fowler found that a person’s sense of loneliness depends on how those in his social network are feeling. You are about 52 percent more likely to be lonely if a person to whom you are directly connected is lonely. But there is an even more extraordinary pattern at the edge of social networks. On the periphery, people have fewer friends; this makes them lonely, and it paradoxically drives them to cut their few remaining ties. But before they do, they may “infect” their friends with the same feeling of loneliness, starting the cycle anew. These reinforcing effects mean that our social fabric can fray at the edges, where it is weakest, like a yarn that comes loose at the end of a sweater.

And this explains in part BS's attraction to Nazism and the Azov Battalion...it's not just to be edgy and seem like a hardass and not to be messed with, although that plays a part too, I'm sure. But I think it gives some kids a sense of structure and order and belonging, albeit a twisted version of a healthy society.

I worked for many years in counter-terrorism, investigating East African extremism in Canada (Somalia, Sudan, etc.). Over and over again, the kids in their teens and early twenties who I talked to had very similar stories: dysfunctional home life (with absent parents for multiple reasons, often related to being newly arrived immigrants with little to no means to support themselves) and social isolation from other kids around them. They often felt like they had two options to give them structure and support and really, meaning: criminal gangs or religious extremism and head off to Somalia to join Al-Shabaab or Syria to join ISIS.
JMO

This is a really great perspective, and thank you for sharing it. I totally agree. It's so easy for young people to be drawn into things like that when they feel they have no place in the world. Inner city gang violence is the same way.

We need to remember they lived with family members, were going to school and graduated, worked in Walmart and had a group of friends online and in real life, they weren't just "holed up in a basement" and isolated from the world

They lived with family members (Kam's parents and Bryer's grandma) from whom, the evidence suggests, they were actively hiding their darker interests. We haven't heard many accounts of their school and work lives but going to school or work doesn't necessarily mean not being socially isolated, as a lot of people have experienced. Someone can be isolated in a room full of people. Even their friends when interviewed said the two had only a few friends and that Bryer had lost a lot of friends over time. And how close were they to those friends really? Was it more just like a glorified acquaintance thing? Also, it seems like they spent a lot of their time with those friends playing video games that, at least in part, simulated what they ended up doing IRL (or trying and failing to do in the case of survivalism).

The evidence suggests that by far the closest relationship, possibly the only close relationship, in their life was each other. And that turned out to have the absolute worst consequences for both of them (and for three innocent people, dozens of loved ones, etc.). I imagine Bryer's family was probably like "he has issues, but he's so close to Kam and Kam has his head on straight, so he will turn out ok."

 

[puppyraiser]

It is my understanding that everything was found on the same side of the river as the car. Two sources confirm that. I’m not great with directions so can’t tell you North or South without looking at a map which I don’t have time for right this moment.

Thanks. That would be the north side of the river heading east. Maybe the video near the cabin was facing backwards (west) along the north side.

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

Will we ever hear more about Kam from his family? It would be nice if RCMP would give us some answers, but based on them not revealing the cause of LD's death, I'm not hopeful at all.

I understand and share the desire to know details and to try to make sense of why and how things happened. But I increasingly understand why Kam’s family has only made one statement and why the family of the deceased would desire limited information being made public. A little bit of information in the mix seems to act like chum in the water for endless speculation.

So given that there will be no trial, I cannot see the need for the details of cause of death of the victims being made public. And if I was a member of a suspect’s family, I would not say anything further. The media and entertainment industry can meet/fuel the public’s desire for details but if I was a member of the botanist’s family I would not care to have his death be the subject of the same speculation that has developed regarding the couple. What purpose would these details really serve other than satisfying curiosity?

I expect that after the autopsy and investigation are complete that the RCMP will provide a report. But I expect that it will not tell nearly all they know/suspect and will be far later than the current public interest/news cycle would hope. I hope it provides sufficient details for the Canadian public to assess the adequacy of their public services/response. But again, given that their will be no trial, I expect any public report will be less informative/conclusive than those who have been following the case would desire. I believe many questions posed in this forum will never have an answer .

 

[Zella]

I imagine Bryer's family was probably like "he has issues, but he's so close to Kam and Kam has his head on straight, so he will turn out ok."

SBM

I bet you're right, with them never realizing KM likely had issues of his own. I wonder what the McLeods made of BS. He sure spent a lot of time at their home, it seems. I know he could be creepy around kids his age, but he seems to have known to behave around adults.

 

[Hraefn]

Thanks, it's behind a paywall, I wonder if it's being reported anywhere else. If it was K&B it might imply that they had a cellphone and it was powered...

I am nearly this whole thread behind, but for articles behind a paywall try copying the link and going to outline.com for the full text.

 

[Link Haze]

There's been no assistance by the Australian police: they sent 2 officers to act as liaison to LF's family but the Aussies were not at all involved in the investigation.

Fowler's father, a police inspector, pleads for public help with the investigation

There's been no assistance by the Australian police: they sent 2 officers to act as liaison to LF's family but the Aussies were not at all involved in the investigation.

Let me clarify, I never said the Australian police offered assistance "with the investigation". I merely said "with the assistance of Australian police". Acting as a liaison and pleading for public's help with the investigation is still "assistance", no matter how small.

 

[MistyWaters]

The RCMP has said they have "significant" evidence linking the two fugitives to both crime scenes. It's not that there is "no evidence" but that LE hasn't released it yet.

And with the death of the two suspects, police stated the file is still not closed so until that happens we definitely won’t learn what evidence linked the three murders.

“We still need to ensure our investigative findings – whether it is statements, evidentiary timelines, physical or digital evidence – continue to confirm our investigative clearing that eliminates any other possibilities or suspects,” Hackett said at the force’s headquarters in Surrey.

“Until that is concluded, we will not close this file.”

https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/new...etermine-in-northern-b-c-deaths-rcmp-say/amp/

 

[ldlager]

Wow. I thought Websleuths would be about discussing possibilities and alternate theories, not just hammering out the mainstream view. If you're just going to go with the scenario the cops have given you without any evidence, what's the point of talking about it? Having another suspect involved is not a conspiracy. This case makes no sense. Maybe the cops have something wrong. It would be nice to hear ideas from people and not be shut down. I have learned from my life that truth can be a lot stranger than fiction.

From the article- "...A relative of Bryer Schmegelsky’s in Port Alberni told the CBC, “Let’s see some proof, let’s see what the RCMP have. There are some holes in this story...”

 

[NJSleuth91]

Personally I think that it is in the public's best interest for the RCMP to eventually (probably not right away but in several months, since it takes time to compile all this) release a report with the broad strokes of what happened, and that speculates, as best they can based on the evidence, what led up to this and the motive. Other spree killings have had similar analyses that came out months or years later. I also think it is in the public's best interest to release cause of death for Kam and Bryer when the autopsy results come out, and it sounds like they are going to do that (hopefully). I think the public has a right to know what happened here so we can maybe hopefully take steps to identify risk factors for this happening again.

I don't think the ballistics and who was standing where when this or that happened and how many times each person was shot and all that are particularly important to know. Maybe a vague description that gives a sense as to what kind of crime this was, like were they killed instantly or left to die an agonizing death, etc. But knowing every tiny detail is not really going to provide a benefit to the public, I think. We know three people were brutally murdered for no reason...do the details matter all that much?

 

[musicaljoke]

There's been no assistance by the Australian police: they sent 2 officers to act as liaison to LF's family but the Aussies were not at all involved in the investigation.

In the video, BC RCMP thanks "our law enforcement partners across Canada, the United States and Australia for their support and assistance ..."

BC RCMP say investigation does not stop with discovery of bodies | Watch News Videos Online

There were some aspects of the early investigative work that had to be done by Australian and American LE, not as in feet on the ground in upper BC, but in identifying the victims and providing any background information needed to try to discover a possible motive for the homicide. I'm sure that the RCMP were grateful for their involvement in those aspects of the investigation.

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

I bet you're right, with them never realizing KM likely had issues of his own. I wonder what the McLeods made of BS. He sure spent a lot of time at their home, it seems. I know he could be creepy around kids his age, but he seems to have known to behave around adults.

I wonder that too...did they ever see that "creepy" side of him or did they see him the way his grandma and great-uncle did? I imagine he must have at least behaved somewhat or they probably would have forced Kam to stop being friends with him years ago.

 

[sandbar]

I wonder if maybe there was a nefarious sort of Pokemon GO aspect to this. Maybe not a third person per se, but more of a dark, geocaching-type adventure and the stuff they picked up is the stuff that links all people, places, and things. Not a conspiracy, but a sick game or a quest...

 

[pentimento]

The RCMP has said they have "significant" evidence linking the two fugitives to both crime scenes. It's not that there is "no evidence" but that LE hasn't released it yet.

I know it seems to be the vogue right now to bash me for having an open mind, but if you read my original post, I did say that the police haven't released any evidence YET. Just having a hard time keeping up with all my critics this morning, so please refer to my original post -- where I never advocated any particular theory, never criticized the RCMP, never attacked anyone's point of view -- but suggested that there could be other explanations for what has happened in this case.

 

[Gina20]

The RCMP has said they have "significant" evidence linking the two fugitives to both crime scenes. It's not that there is "no evidence" but that LE hasn't released it yet.

But they also said the evidence in CD's and LF's murders did not meet the evidentiary threshold yet for charging BS and KM when they were still believed to be alive.

What does this mean? That DNA places them at the scene, but the evidence did not indicate that they committed murder? The timing for them being there does not match the time of death? Or that CD's and LF's possessions were found at Dease Lake or in the banks of the Nelson River? Without more disclosure, we just have to take their word for it, and lack of information will fuel the rumor mills for years to come. Maybe they did want to become a great Canadian mystery, like the Mad Trapper of Rat River, after all. This secrecy will guarantee that it happens.

 

[Zella]

I was poking around BS's Steam account last night. Had looked before but never checked out his screenshots. I never did screenshots for any of my Steam games, so I can't figure out if they show the oldest first or the most recent, but the first one is a screenshot of a game involving players on a boat headed for forested land (in winter).

It could be coincidence, but now I really am wondering if they had a harebrained scheme to use the boat based on a game. If so, I don't think they were able to get into the boat and it got away from them, frustrating their plans. The game was Player Unknown Battlegrounds, which I am not familiar with, and none of the names of the other players in the screen match KM's Steam names. That might be due to KMs privacy settings, though--again I never used the screenshots, so I don't know how they work.

There's another screenshot from Rust a little further down that also features a boat. And further below that is another one from Player Unknown Battlegrounds showing a burning car. He has a couple of other Rust screenshots where his character seems to be in water. I really wish I could figure out when those were all taken.

The only game he played that I recognize from the screenshots is Rome Total War II. LOL I lost many hours of sleep to that game and the cause of conquering the world for Rome a few years ago so recognized it right off.

Steam Community :: Bryer :: Screenshots

The comments on his profile show seem of the normal posting you'd see in the wake of someone's death/infamy on social media. But the last activity of BS's is in response to KM. On June 4th a little after 2 am, KM posted a face on BS's wall. And then several hours later that same day, BS seems to have posted the same face in response. I can't figure out whose face it is supposed to be. Incidentally, it's the only interaction I can see between them on the site, though some of that could be because KM had his profile set to private.

Steam Community :: Bryer