Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

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rrstren said:
The thing is, we know zip about their online lives outside gaming. The RCMP probably know plenty, including any involvement in extreme Internet forums, whether 8Chan, 4Chan, Storm Front, Gab, etc.

I don’t know, one way or the other, how much your interesting millennial profile applies to small town Vancouver Island. I spend much more time in Newfoundland, where it doesn’t fit very well, but maybe it has more application to the island on the west coast :)
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My profile "fits" where ever teens are connected to the internet. It's really hard to observe teen behavior when most of their meaningful life is conducted online. Indoors.

But let me ask (I'd love to visit Newfoundland, I used to dream, of course, of living on PEI)...do you still see teens out and about playing in your neighborhood? I don't. I got all excited at a "teen sighting" in my hood two days ago (three boys and three girls, all about 14). There are no kids outside, anywhere, where I live (suburban Los Angeles). And in my home town (small agricultural California town), same thing except there are some kids out in the poorer neighborhoods.

Middle class neighborhoods? No kids. Empty playgrounds (teens used to congregate there; now they congregate online). They don't even go to the mall that much any more. And my students (18-25 mostly) have a steep increase in meeting people in apps or games, whereas even 8 years ago, a fair number were disdainful of that.

I am always surprised at the way online communities attract a worldwide core group or clique, sometimes rocking the assumptions of the actual host cultures in the places where these kids live.

Kam and Bryer were very active members of some online communities, that much we know (especially Kam, who was a mod). Many kids in alternative high schools are online...a lot.

Anyway, if Newfoundland still has regular teen activity that involves hanging out in a neighborhood, that's amazing.
 
Schmoosh said:
I'd love to hear your theory on why they put it in the ditch before intentionally burning it.
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That one's easy. They took the corner too fast. The vehicle doesn't look very stuck, though. Anyone know if it was a 4x4?
 
Schmoosh said:
I think I've been obvious in my theory. I haven't been here for long so it won't take you long to read my posts.

Your turn to answer my question.
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I see skepticism about details of the murder investigation in your comments, but not an overarching explanation of why Kam & Bryer aren’t in Whitehorse.
 
rrstren said:
The thing is, we know zip about their online lives outside gaming. The RCMP probably know plenty, including any involvement in extreme Internet forums, whether 8Chan, 4Chan, Storm Front, Gab, etc. I’d be interested in whether they were spending time on certain YouTube channels, such as those associated with Generation Identity.

I don’t know, one way or the other, how much your interesting millennial profile applies to small town Vancouver Island. I spend much more time in Newfoundland, where it doesn’t fit very well, but maybe it has more application to the island on the other coast. One thing I’m fairly sure of is that island life and mainland life tend to be quite different.

Maybe I’ll raise this question with my brother in Victoria later today.
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I'd love to know how RCMP know about whether they were involved in 4chan (if they took and burned their computers). Hopefully, they left a computer behind, but people change handles so often (or don't use them). The ISP should have some idea of which sites they went to, but not necessarily (especially on 4Chan and 8Chan) what handles they used. I'd be content just to know that they were active in those communities. ISP should know if they were on those specific Youtube sites.

The people they knew in their gaming world (and on some of those sites mentioned) probably know way more about the "why" of this than we ever could. At least, the conscious "why."
 
NJSleuth91 said:
I feel like things have to be really bad in a home environment for a teenager to think staying on the streets is preferable to staying at home....JMO.
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Breyer is sounding more and more like someone who hangs with whoever will give him what he wants. When the goodies and, so does he. I’m starting to wonder if he even cared about Kam? JMO
 
10ofRods said:
My profile "fits" where ever teens are connected to the internet. It's really hard to observe teen behavior when most of their meaningful life is conducted online. Indoors.

But let me ask (I'd love to visit Newfoundland, I used to dream, of course, of living on PEI)...do you still see teens out and about playing in your neighborhood? I don't. I got all excited at a "teen sighting" in my hood two days ago (three boys and three girls, all about 14). There are no kids outside, anywhere, where I live (suburban Los Angeles). And in my home town (small agricultural California town), same thing except there are some kids out in the poorer neighborhoods.

Middle class neighborhoods? No kids. Empty playgrounds (teens used to congregate there; now they congregate online). They don't even go to the mall that much any more. And my students (18-25 mostly) have a steep increase in meeting people in apps or games, whereas even 8 years ago, a fair number were disdainful of that.

I am always surprised at the way online communities attract a worldwide core group or clique, sometimes rocking the assumptions of the actual host cultures in the places where these kids live.

Kam and Bryer were very active members of some online communities, that much we know (especially Kam, who was a mod). Many kids in alternative high schools are online...a lot.

Anyway, if Newfoundland still has regular teen activity that involves hanging out in a neighborhood, that's amazing.
Click to expand...
I live in rural Arkansas. I think kids are outside less than when I was a kid (in the ancient 90s!), but I still see kids out and about here in my small town. I see them walking around (usually together and not solo), playing pick-up basketball at home or on public courts, etc.

I know a lot of them spend a fair amount of time online from talking to them and having them camp out in our public library, but I also live in a poor community where a lot of people don't have internet access or where internet access is not available in all areas. Also an agricultural community where a lot of them work on family farms.

I do think there's more of a tendency to provide structured outdoor time/activities than when I was younger, especially for the folks who live in town. My brother and I were just sort of pushed out the door and left to fend for ourselves (and lived pretty far from neighbors), which I don't see as much. Not sure if that is just increased fear of child abductions or a growing tendency of parents to schedule their child's day to keep them out of trouble or what the deal is.
 
Errrr said:
Breyer is sounding more and more like someone who hangs with whoever will give him what he wants. When the goodies and, so does he. I’m starting to wonder if he even cared about Kam? JMO
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I agree, and same about getting a driver's license. "Why bother? I have Kam and my Auntie to drive me around!"
 
Gina20 said:
Maybe this will help.

Air Guns - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
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It did! And note well that the RCMP does not call these things "airsoft" (which implies 'toy' to me and to many people - including, perhaps, the person who bought this gun).

I think it's an air gun (MOO) and falls well under RCMP guidelines for "air gun." While air guns are regulated in Canada, they are super easy to buy from ebay and can be shipped to Canada, especially by a seller who doesn't know and doesn't care about RCMP rules about who can buy...

Just saying. Mr. S calls his gift "airsoft" rifle, but I'm not so sure it isn't an "air gun" under RCMP rules.
 
10ofRods said:
My profile "fits" where ever teens are connected to the internet. It's really hard to observe teen behavior when most of their meaningful life is conducted online. Indoors.

But let me ask (I'd love to visit Newfoundland, I used to dream, of course, of living on PEI)...do you still see teens out and about playing in your neighborhood? I don't. I got all excited at a "teen sighting" in my hood two days ago (three boys and three girls, all about 14). There are no kids outside, anywhere, where I live (suburban Los Angeles). And in my home town (small agricultural California town), same thing except there are some kids out in the poorer neighborhoods.

Middle class neighborhoods? No kids. Empty playgrounds (teens used to congregate there; now they congregate online). They don't even go to the mall that much any more. And my students (18-25 mostly) have a steep increase in meeting people in apps or games, whereas even 8 years ago, a fair number were disdainful of that.

I am always surprised at the way online communities attract a worldwide core group or clique, sometimes rocking the assumptions of the actual host cultures in the places where these kids live.

Kam and Bryer were very active members of some online communities, that much we know (especially Kam, who was a mod). Many kids in alternative high schools are online...a lot.

Anyway, if Newfoundland still has regular teen activity that involves hanging out in a neighborhood, that's amazing.
Click to expand...

This is very much a cultural thing. Newfoundland, like Vancouver Island, has a lot of wild areas and associated wildlife. At the moment, just about every kid in my part of Newfoundland is out cod fishing because there’s a personal use recreational cod fishery twice each summer. In the fall, a lot of teenage boys will be helping with the moose hunt, and ice hockey is pretty much de rigeur in the winter. They are plugged in, but it’s not like suburban Los Angeles.

Similarly, I spent eight months on the island of Sicily two years ago, and internet use is much lower than in urban Canada/US at all ages. Teenage boys are too busy bombing around on their motor bikes, no helmet of course :)

I’m not sure about Vancouver Island these days, but there are reasons to think that rural parts of the Island are also not like L.A. Don’t know about the Washington State islands. Anyway, I’ll be talking with my brother in Victoria tonight and will get his thoughts.
 
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Errrr said:
Breyer is sounding more and more like someone who hangs with whoever will give him what he wants. When the goodies and, so does he. I’m starting to wonder if he even cared about Kam? JMO
Click to expand...
I think their relationship was very toxic and emotionally unhealthy, but I also think they had a very genuine, strong bond. I do think KM provided BS with access to things he wouldn't have had otherwise--like a vehicle--but I also get the impression that KM was not put off by the thing BS did that drove away his other friends.

That right there, for someone as lonely and unmoored as BS seemed, would inspire some genuine affection, I think. I also suspect since BS was apparently so introverted and strikes me as a nervous sort that he liked KM's confidence and slightly more outgoing nature but also appreciated he wasn't too extroverted and, thus, overwhelming to him. (I say that as an introvert. I avoid bubbly extroverts like the blight! They're lovely people, but they exhaust and overwhelm me.)

So, yeah, I think BS may have used KM, but I don't think that precluded him genuinely liking him. I do suspect he used his own family shamelessly, though.

All MOO.

Edited to add: I think the fact they were friends for so long also just provided him with some stability he appreciated and may have even relied on. He had a rocky relationship with his mom and an absent one for a long time with his dad. But it seems like KM's friendship was always there. I think the fact they were described by numerous people as "inseparable" indicates that they were both very dependent on that friendship and valued it tremendously. In other words, I see it as very much a two-way street with them.
 
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10ofRods said:
It did! And note well that the RCMP does not call these things "airsoft" (which implies 'toy' to me and to many people - including, perhaps, the person who bought this gun).

I think it's an air gun (MOO) and falls well under RCMP guidelines for "air gun." While air guns are regulated in Canada, they are super easy to buy from ebay and can be shipped to Canada, especially by a seller who doesn't know and doesn't care about RCMP rules about who can buy...

Just saying. Mr. S calls his gift "airsoft" rifle, but I'm not so sure it isn't an "air gun" under RCMP rules.
Click to expand...

They do say "air soft."
 
Schmoosh said:
I agree, and same about getting a driver's license. "Why bother? I have Kam and my Auntie to drive me around!"
Click to expand...

...considers himself above all that mundane stuff, on a mission (which isn't yet revealed to him, as teen missions are often mysteries even to the teen).

rrstren said:
This is very much a cultural thing. Newfoundland, like Vancouver Island, has a lot of wild areas and associated wildlife. At the moment, just about every kid in my part of Newfoundland is out cod fishing because there’s a personal use cod fishery twice each summer. In the fall, a high percentage of teenage boys will be helping with the moose hunt, and ice hockey is pretty much de rigeur in the winter. They are plugged in, but it’s not like suburban Los Angeles.

Similarly, I spent eight months on the island of Sicily two years ago, and internet use is much lower than in urban Canada/US at all ages. Teenage boys are too busy bombing around on their motor bikes, no helmet of course :)

I’m not sure about Vancouver Island these days, but there are reasons to think that rural parts of the Island are also not like L.A. Don’t know about the Washington State islands. Anyway, I’ll be talking with my brother in Victoria tonight and will get his thoughts.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's definitely cultural - but notice how you started out with geography and ecosystem, basically. Those things underpin culture. Lack of internet access in Sicily is a significant feature of social life (and true for the Greek islands as well), but on Vancouver Island, not so much. As relatively middle class kids, K/B had internet access. The infrastructure and technology are key in providing culture its framework.

Would LOVE to hear your brother's insights. I've been around PA on google maps (definitely not like LA, but not too dissimilar from, say, parts of Riverside or San Bernardino Counties - or the Central Valley of California). In fact, it really looks like a Central Valley town (but absent the agriculture). It's probably really boring for teens.

Those with internet access have the world as their oyster (or so they think).

Cell phones are not the standard teen equipment in Sicily either (or most parts of Italy, as far as I can tell). I bet they are pretty common in middle class homes on Vancouver Island, though.
 
Sleuths, I’m late joining this but are there any links to their route mapping to include the confirmed sightings (Col Lk, Meadow Lk)between northern BC and where the RAV4 was burned? With cams common place at most gas stations across Canada and traffic cams one would think they would have been seen somewhere else. Has anyone estimated fuel stops based on the cars range? If they had cell phones, won’t they be able to locate pings? Sorry, just some questions I cannot find any media on.
 
Zella said:
I think their relationship was very toxic and emotionally unhealthy, but I also think they had a very genuine, strong bond. I do think KM provided BS with access to things he wouldn't have had otherwise--like a vehicle--but I also get the impression that KM was not put off by the thing BS did that drove away his other friends.

That right there, for someone as lonely and unmoored as BS seemed, would inspire some genuine affection, I think. I also suspect since BS was apparently so introverted and strikes me as a nervous sort that he liked KM's confidence and slightly more outgoing nature but also appreciated he wasn't too extroverted and, thus, overwhelming to him. (I say that as an introvert. I avoid bubbly extroverts like the blight! They're lovely people, but they exhaust and overwhelm me.)

So, yeah, I think BS may have used KM, but I don't think that precluded him genuinely liking him. I do suspect he used his own family shamelessly, though.

All MOO.

Edited to add: I think the fact they were friends for so long also just provided him with some stability he appreciated and may have even relied on. He had a rocky relationship with his mom and an absent one for a long time with his dad. But it seems like KM's friendship was always there. I think the fact they were described by numerous people as "inseparable" indicates that they were both very dependent on that friendship and valued it tremendously. In other words, I see it as very much a two-way street with them.
Click to expand...
I see it as Kam being the leader who BS looks up to. At a young age, one year's difference in age can make a huge difference, yet they bonded and have hung out together since. Kam has the resources, BS has had very few. Kam is the gaming mod, BS is the instigator. They wouldn't have done this road trip if it weren't for Kam. The Meadow Lake video looked like Kam leading BS, and BS acting almost as a bodyguard. Although we've heard much more about BS, I believe Kam is the far more dangerous one.
 
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