CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[dbdb11]

@dbdb11 - Do you know if Barbara has a current driver’s license?

Thank you for answering all of our questions and I am keeping your family in my prayers. This must be so hard on your father being so far away and having health issues.

I can only assume she must. Dont know for sure.

 

[ZsaZsa]

She was in a remote area. someone driving by would think she was alone. They would not know her husband was not far behind, so they could have grabbed her. "Just a thought."

For what purpose?

 

[K9Enzo]

I'm wondering whether its worth contacting the San Bernardino County Sheriff's SAR? Could we find out whether there are further searches being carried out? If not, is there anything we can (collectively) do to ensure that further searches can be carried out? SBSAR.ORG - SAR Teams

IMO, When the official search was suspended there were a bunch of SAR personnel with a knots in their stomach. They hate this, when the missing is not found. It stays with them even after going home. It's a tough call but the decision has to be made at some point when you look at probability of survival in the environment and many other factors. RT would have been sat down and told this information.

IMO, the official SAR will not deploy again unless evidence is discovered (example: clothing, scattered bones, makeshift shelter, etc.) or investigation information leads them back out there to the search area or outside of it.

I don't believe anyone in the public will get a response back from SAR - maybe a canned answer from the Sheriff's office and I even doubt that. They appear to be very tight lipped. Which some departments just are. IMO.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

I think the circumstances of her disappearance are almost too "perfect" if indeed foul play is involved. I just feel it highly, highly improbable that there would be a chance encounter with a nefarious stranger. The recent purchase of the truck/RV I find to be highly significant. Also, consider all the resources expended in a search of the area - helicopters, search dogs, volunteer teams, with no results. Then there's the polygraph. Whatever happened, didn't happen "out there." All of this is my opinion only.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Maybe there's no money for a PR person.

I've seen posts that say RT should sell this or that to post a big reward.

Does anybody know if those things are paid for? For all we know they are upside down on the house, truck and RV and selling them would gain nothing.

The ideas based on zero facts on this thread amaze me.

Hell for all we know they are in such financial straights that it could be a motive for murder. JMO

“Hell for all we know they are in such financial straights that it could be a motive for murder. JMO”

Do we know anything about Life Insurance Policies on BT?

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Where did anyone come up with hair coloring? or styling?

I would be interested in knowing this too.

A change of hair color would mean RT is moving on as in BT is gone and not coming back.

 

[LietKynes]

I think the circumstances of her disappearance are almost too "perfect" if indeed foul play is involved. I just feel it highly, highly improbable that there would be a chance encounter with a nefarious stranger. The recent purchase of the truck/RV I find to be highly significant. Also, consider all the resources expended in a search of the area - helicopters, search dogs, volunteer teams, with no results. Then there's the polygraph. Whatever happened, didn't happen "out there." All of this is my opinion only.

Bolding mine

Agreed.
And many here at WS, and elsewhere on msm seem to feel likewise.
Very heartbreaking.

“Hell for all we know they are in such financial straights that it could be a motive for murder. JMO”

Do we know anything about Life Insurance Policies on BT?

BBM

It wouldn't necessarily mean anything sinister, but it'd be interesting to know if RT has contacted any life insurance companies -- if he had a policy on Barbara.

I think after a time (unsure if it's 2 months or how long ?) you can reasonably assume someone is no more; and then the insurance company is obligated to honor the policy.

The time frame that a family member can claim a policy in the unlikely event of a death is determined by whom--- the family member or the life ins. company ?

I would be interested in knowing this too.

A change of hair color would mean RT is moving on as in BT is gone and not coming back.

BBM
Ita.
But, we'll never know, as RT does not come across as the type to reveal personal details.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

RSABBM

A person walking comfortably but briskly will walk around 3 mph in my experience.

That means one mile in 20 minutes, or a half mile in ten minutes.

No speeding bullet necessary.

To be clear, my own theory is leaning more and more toward her not having been there that day at all. But I do think we should be as realistic as possible when thinking about the various bits of the story as given.

Your 'experience' is spot-on!

What's the Ideal Pace for Brisk Walking?

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a brisk walking pace is 2.5 to 4 miles per hour (mph). One study defines this as about 100 steps per minute for adults under age 60.

By contrast, an average easy walking pace is 20 minutes per mile (about 3 to 4 mph). A fast pace is 12 minutes per mile (5 mph).

 

[Kapua]

IMHO, RT would not be in a rush to collect on any insurance policies.

 

[LietKynes]

IMHO, RT would not be in a rush to collect on any insurance policies.

Yes, it might make him look bad, tbh.

 

[Kapua]

Yes, it might make him look bad, tbh.

I don't think he is THAT stupid. But you never know. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I would be interested in knowing this too.

A change of hair color would mean RT is moving on as in BT is gone and not coming back.

The way I read the post, it's been awhile. Not since Barbara came up missing.

 

[al66pine]

Successful Life? Defining? Wealth?

....It doesn't matter what era you were raised in (and he is not that old or naive IMO - he's clearly had a successful life, has a business that presumably involves computers and also served his country in war)....

@Reasonable & Just Thanks for your post. Snipped for focus. bbm
'Successful life' is susceptible to vastly different interps. Trying not to sleuth where ToS prohibit. But for ex: Some think a 40-50 yr- long marriage, at age 70 is a sign of a successful life, while others give that no weight. Ditto, extensive time w family. Or volunteering in the community, hobbies, etc.

If successful life is defined as having accumulated wealth, can we measure a person's success by our perception of his property, assets, balance sheet? Can we measure accurately?

Without disparaging him, are the house, truck, RV, boat, & other assets held in his name? Are they the fruit of his blood, sweat, and tears? Did he inherit a substantial amt? Did any/some $ come from current or prior marriages? Did he buy a lottery ticket on the right day? Just asking rhetorically. Some who have sleuthed him may have some fact-based answers, and some may be making assumptions. I don't know, won't guess, won't assume, saying more re ^ is beyond ToS, as I understand them.

Second, as others asked: are these assets owned outright/paid for, or are there loan/encumbrances against them? Aside from the house, these (truck, RV, boat, & ?) are depreciating assets, not necessarily symbols of success imo and relatively easy to get upside down on. Again, rhetorically speaking.

Some posters say: RT & BT just bought truck & RV, so they must ---
- be cash-strapped, be slaves to big monthly payments, now have no other $.
or
- still have plenty o'dough left in the bank.
^ my paraphrasing^

I believe these assumptions reflect our general sensibilities and sentiments about $$$, w little basis in fact as to BT & RT specifically. jmo YMMV.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Successful Life? Defining? Wealth?

@Reasonable & Just Thanks for your post. Snipped for focus. bbm
'Successful life' is susceptible to vastly different interps. Trying not to sleuth where ToS prohibit. But for ex: Some think a 40-50 yr- long marriage, at age 70 is a sign of a successful life, while others give that no weight. Ditto, extensive time w family. Or volunteering in the community, hobbies, etc.

If successful life is defined as having accumulated wealth, can we measure a person's success by our perception of his property, assets, balance sheet? Can we measure accurately?

Without disparaging him, are the house, truck, RV, boat, & other assets held in his name? Are they the fruit of his blood, sweat, and tears? Did he inherit a substantial amt? Did any/some $ come from current or prior marriages? Did he buy a lottery ticket on the right day? Just asking rhetorically. Some who have sleuthed him may have some fact-based answers, and some may be making assumptions. I don't know, won't guess, won't assume, saying more re ^ is beyond ToS, as I understand them.

Second, as others asked: are these assets owned outright/paid for, or are there loan/encumbrances against them? Aside from the house, these (truck, RV, boat, & ?) are depreciating assets, not necessarily symbols of success imo and relatively easy to get upside down on. Again, rhetorically speaking.

Some posters say: RT & BT just bought truck & RV, so they must ---
- be cash-strapped, be slaves to big monthly payments, now have no other $.
or
- still have plenty o'dough left in the bank.
^ my paraphrasing^

I believe these assumptions reflect our general sensibilities and sentiments about $$$, w little basis in fact as to BT & RT specifically. jmo YMMV.

Living close to a beautiful Desert to hike in would equal a successful life to me, especially with someone that’s “the love of your life”. Money can always be gotten but how you spend your time is what matters the most and I think that’s the life BT and RT had.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Considering the distance between the rock formation and where the truck/rv were parked in the turnout, RT would have had to have spent at least 10 minutes "taking pictures" before BT could reach the road walking at a steady pace... assuming BT was 'abducted' while RT was still 'taking pictures'.

Wondering how far back from BT would have been if RT was already walking his way toward the truck/rv before BT had reached Kelbaker Rd. This scenario would place RT closer to the road and more likely to have seen or heard voices, a vehicle or a struggle. To date, RT hasn't mentioned hearing or seeing anything. This, plus the "beer" angle... flicker my hinky needle.

Another issue:

When LE arrived to the scene after the 911 dispatch (some hours later :-/) they set up their command post in the turnout. The turnout. Was LE not aware at that time that RT believed his wife to have been abducted when she had "crossed that road" while walking toward the truck/rv? IMO that was a misstep by LE... unless they searched/SAR-dogged the turnout before staging the command center. Something tells me they did no such a thing.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Successful Life? Defining? Wealth?

@Reasonable & Just Thanks for your post. Snipped for focus. bbm
'Successful life' is susceptible to vastly different interps. Trying not to sleuth where ToS prohibit. But for ex: Some think a 40-50 yr- long marriage, at age 70 is a sign of a successful life, while others give that no weight. Ditto, extensive time w family. Or volunteering in the community, hobbies, etc.

If successful life is defined as having accumulated wealth, can we measure a person's success by our perception of his property, assets, balance sheet? Can we measure accurately?

Without disparaging him, are the house, truck, RV, boat, & other assets held in his name? Are they the fruit of his blood, sweat, and tears? Did he inherit a substantial amt? Did any/some $ come from current or prior marriages? Did he buy a lottery ticket on the right day? Just asking rhetorically. Some who have sleuthed him may have some fact-based answers, and some may be making assumptions. I don't know, won't guess, won't assume, saying more re ^ is beyond ToS, as I understand them.

Second, as others asked: are these assets owned outright/paid for, or are there loan/encumbrances against them? Aside from the house, these (truck, RV, boat, & ?) are depreciating assets, not necessarily symbols of success imo and relatively easy to get upside down on. Again, rhetorically speaking.

Some posters say: RT & BT just bought truck & RV, so they must ---
- be cash-strapped, be slaves to big monthly payments, now have no other $.
or
- still have plenty o'dough left in the bank.
^ my paraphrasing^

I believe these assumptions reflect our general sensibilities and sentiments about $$$, w little basis in fact as to BT & RT specifically. jmo YMMV.

Thanks, and let me clarify my context. Everything I have read has come from these threads, but I won't be more specific just in case something is out of TOS.

RT has many wonderful material objects, some that few people possess. Things that require some savvy to negotiate for, finance, and maintain. Some that require courage and know-how to operate.

All I was getting at is that I have heard the terms "naivety" and implications that it would be too difficult for him to advocate for his missing wife. I don't agree. If you can do and have all these things (whether they are straining your finances or not - we don't know), you can do better than a lawyer's milquetoast "frantically looking for information on ways to get her back" statement. That's called Google

In all seriousness, maybe he is doing more than we know. <modsnip>

 

[al66pine]

Life Ins. Policy Claims, Time Elapsed & Info/Doc’s

....
It wouldn't necessarily mean anything sinister, but it'd be interesting to know if RT has contacted any life insurance companies -- if he had a policy on Barbara.
I think after a time (unsure if it's 2 months or how long ?) you can reasonably assume someone is no more; and then the insurance company is obligated to honor the policy.
The time frame that a family member can claim a policy in the unlikely event of a death is determined by whom--- the family member or the life ins. company ?....

@Liet Kynes Thanks for your post. snipped for focus
You say, “you can reasonably assume someone is no more” and I’m agreeing w that as true in many circumstances, but not so for life ins co's or in our US judicial system generally.
Before starting to process (let alone pay) a death benefit claim, those nit-picking life insurance companies insist on having in their hands, that pesky little document: Death Certificate, which they review to verify death of the insured, for one thing.
But in this situation, MedExaminer has not issued D/Ctf for BT yet.
Before issuing a DCtf, those by-the-book stickler MedEx's insist on having a body or remains to examine and draw conclusions from, findings like cause of death and manner of death, which may or may not be homicide.
And that's why any beneficiary of a policy on BT's life (if one or more exists) would hit a wall in making a claim for benefits under that policy: No DCtf. At least for now.

A person may file a petition in court to have a MisPers 'declared dead' and to probate that person's estate, etc. but that's an entirely different issue from sumitting a life ins claim. Typically those judicial procedures are not started until yeeeeears after the person goes missing, but there are a few exceptions.
^ largely jmo ime^

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think it's just someone's impression. True or not, it doesn't have anything to do with Barbara's disappearance, IMO, so I think it would be kind of us to drop it.

Thank you

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

They [LE] don’t believe she left by choice, but at this point do not believe there was criminal activity so they’re focusing their efforts on a search and rescue mission.[/Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearanceQUOTE]
I interpret that as: LE believed passersby had picked up BT, forcing her in to their vehicle thinking she needed help, regardless of her reluctance to go with them. What would make passersby not believe BT that she did not need help? How much beer did BT consume by that time? Sweating in >100° temperature and drinking beer....

...maybe that is why RT emphasized BT was "carrying a beer"?

 

[al66pine]

Thanks, and let me clarify my context. Everything I have read has come from these threads, but I won't be more specific just in case something is out of TOS.
RT has many wonderful material objects, some that few people possess. Things that require some savvy to negotiate for, finance, and maintain. Some that require courage and know-how to operate.
All I was getting at is that I have heard the terms "naivety" and implications that it would be too difficult for him to advocate for his missing wife. I don't agree. If you can do and have all these things (whether they are straining your finances or not - we don't know), you can do better than a lawyer's milquetoast "frantically looking for information on ways to get her back" statement. That's called Google
In all seriousness, maybe he is doing more than we know. My point is that I try to take people as they present themselves, and not infantilize a grown man of apparent means.

@Reasonable & Just Thanks for clarifying your post.
I should and could have been clearer myself, as I was using your post as a launching pad, to respond to the personal financial issues that several others mentioned as well.
Again, TYVM.