Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[SnooperDuper]

I would say maybe the dark web but I don't know. I know it is laughably easy to buy stuff like heroin, research chemicals, nembutal (often used to commit suicide) etc. off the dark web. But guns, I don't know about, because I feel like that's a) a lot harder to ship, and b) something the authorities would be more concerned about. Plus I really can't imagine these two successfully negotiating the black market. I still think they most likely came from Kam's family or someone else they knew, maybe a friend.

It is "laughably easy" to buy things on the dark web? What, these two kids had a bitcoin account that no one knew about? You can't exactly use PayPal.

These kids are going to get a mysterious package from somewhere and their parents would never notice, never ask about it?

I don't think they used the dark web. They could have made contact with gangsters in Vancouver via Steam and made a pickup.

 

[cartman]

I’ve been following this case since the beginning but held off commenting until I was fully caught up on all the threads.

I was watching the CTV National News last night at 11pm and there was a story done by Jill Macyshon on this case. Macyshon said that KM and BS died by suicide and were found with two firearms - believed to be rifles - found by their bodies. That was the first I heard MSM report about the type of guns. Did anyone else catch that?

edited to add link:

CTV News | News Video - Top National News Headlines - News Videos

 

[SnooperDuper]

Agreed, it is just speculation on here. I think what is fueling it here on WS is people trying to parse why the McLeods are being quiet. I don't think their silence implies anything other than they are distraught, confused, overwhelmed, and want to be left alone.

I think there's a chance Kam got them from his family, but there's no telling where the guns came from.

MOO

At the moment we don't know where the guns came from. I am sure the RCMP will be able to trace them.

We know absolutely nothing about KM's family, and I think it's wrong to speculate so furiously that they were the source. People have to leave that alone. It is just adding to their pain to have these rumours out there.

I think that theory is appealing because if it were true, then KM's family would be able to be punished, and there would be some vengeance for the victims. People don't have the same faith that a black market dealer would be caught and punished.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It is "laughably easy" to buy things on the dark web? What, these two kids had a bitcoin account that no one knew about? You can't exactly use PayPal.

Is there any reason why they couldn't have had one? Or one of their friends? I could totally see Bryer being one of those people who goes on long rants about "overthrowing fiat currency."

These kids are going to get a mysterious package from somewhere and their parents would never notice, never ask about it?

Who says they had to ship it to their own residences?

I don't think they used the dark web. They could have made contact with gangsters in Vancouver via Steam and made a pickup.

Ok, but you're talking about two scrawny, dorky, painfully shy and weird, edgelord gamers who I imagine spent a lot of time on sites like 4Chan and Reddit. What do you think is more likely? That they somehow successfully a) came across and b) negotiated a transaction with gangsters without getting ripped off and beaten, or just having the gangsters be like "you know what, these dudes are way too weird and sketchy, nvm." Or that they used the dark web, which as people who mostly lived on the internet and were very shy about face-to-face interaction, they would be way more comfortable with. And on top of that, the dark web and how to use it to buy illegal stuff is talked about extensively on several quite popular communities on Reddit that have to do with interests I think they would probably be into. If they did purchase the guns, I think dark web is most likely. But I still think they got them from a family member or friend.

 

[JuneBug67]

It is "laughably easy" to buy things on the dark web? What, these two kids had a bitcoin account that no one knew about? You can't exactly use PayPal.

These kids are going to get a mysterious package from somewhere and their parents would never notice, never ask about it?

I don't think they used the dark web. They could have made contact with gangsters in Vancouver via Steam and made a pickup.

We’re also assuming that they had no access to handguns directly. If, say, they got the guns from Kam’s home, it’s of course much more statistically likely they were long guns. But that’s not assured. Kam’s family (or some member of Bryer’s family) could also have had properly registered handguns for a variety of legitimate reasons. It’s typically for shooting at a range or collecting, but I remember Dellen Millard’s father in the Millard/Smich cases had handguns for personal protection from animals because he flew small planes to the far north commercially many years prior.

 

[MistyWaters]

As a traveller then, Lucas had no permanent household, can you explain please from your professional standing, how would he qualify for ICBC coverage? You'd think that an Aussie driving licence holder with no permanent Canadian address, bill-of-sale etc, wanting to insure in BC an older, mechanically uncertified, Alberta-registered van might present some problem.

Its background information that seems superfluous, but surely all details are important in any murder crime, and this is particularly horrific. Police gather evidence, courts decide if it is relevant. At this point it only confirms, if needed, that no LE passed the crime scene location from the time it broke down until the discovery of the bodies.

The eye-witnessed, late-night altercation might have been vehicle related. Would be good to know it has been investigated.

Some guesswork on my part but it may’ve went like this -

Van is repossessed from prior owner and sold at auction, as are the vast majority of repos. Plates remain intact, prior owner had no reason to remove them as registration is no longer valid.

Van is bought at auction by the ranch owner. But as long as it’s hauled away on a flatbed or towed, anything but driven, purchaser isn’t required to register or insure van. It sits on ranch and later LF buys van from ranch owner.

But if the original plates still remained on the van when it was found on July 15th, any VIN check would lead back to the repo only.

Beyond that it would take a bit of police leg work to first contact the bank involved in the repo, then to determine the auction company who sold it, to have them check their records to find the name and address of the new purchaser, then contact that person to learn the identity of the occupants of the van on the Alaskan Highway.

JMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think that theory is appealing because if it were true, then KM's family would be able to be punished, and there would be some vengeance for the victims. People don't have the same faith that a black market dealer would be caught and punished.

I think it's "appealing" because it's most likely. I don't want Kam's family to be punished. They're going to be in pain for the rest of their lives, and I think that's way more punishment than they deserve. In a lot of mass shootings involving teenagers, the guns came from a family member. It's actually pretty rare for the guns in a mass shooting to come from an illegal source.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Is there a link to back this up @otto?
You have previously posted that the van was registered to Lucas. Has there been information brought forward to dispute Lucas as the registered owner?

Yeah, I'd like to see some kind of source on this as well. This claim keeps getting stronger and stronger, but we have been provided no proof that I've seen. Now we are told, "nothing about the van - not the VIN or the licence plate - connected the vehicle to the owner Lucas Fowler."

Not having insurance is a $598 fine. Police officers routinely run plates. There's a color coded sticker on the plate to indicate when it expires. Your vehicle would be towed and impounded. Going on a BC/Yukon road trip with no valid insurance would be absolutely insane. Also, the vehicle had to be registered to someone. Assuming that person was not Lucas, does it seem likely that the registered owner of the vehicle had no idea Lucas Fowler was using it?

 

[Carpetchick]

I get that you don't think one has to do with the other, or maybe you just right out don't believe it. But here is an article from the cbc that quotes Sawchuk as well, does it make it more believable now?

Clint Sawchuk, owner of Nelson River Adventures, thinks he might have helped draw RCMP attention to the wide, fast-moving river that powers several hydro-electric dams.

He spotted what appeared to be a sleeping bag caught in willows and reported it to the RCMP. He believes the Mounties spotted the boat as they flew by helicopter to investigate.

"I'm very happy it's over and they found them," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bodies-found-manhunt-fugitives-1.5239053

I don't see this guy jumping up and down looking for attention and trying to take credit for "finding them". And actually, he did some interviews very early on when they started searching the area, he gave some pretty good insight into the area and the river, I believe that was on cbc too. I could only find 2 articles quoting him, one from Globe and Mail, one from CBC, the other articles reference the Globe and Mail from what I see.

This guy is a local guide that takes people up the Nelson River to York Factory. He puts his boat in the river at Gillam and takes people for a day trip. He has been doing this for years. He saw a sleeping bag floating way down river on one of his trips and reported it. He had sent his wife and kids to Winnipeg because he was nervous leaving them alone. He saw something and reported it, which is hopefully what anyone would do. Soon after that they found the boat and decided to stay focused on the River. The guy is not claiming anything other than facts ....

 

[Link Haze]

It is "laughably easy" to buy things on the dark web? What, these two kids had a bitcoin account that no one knew about? You can't exactly use PayPal.

These kids are going to get a mysterious package from somewhere and their parents would never notice, never ask about it?

I don't think they used the dark web. They could have made contact with gangsters in Vancouver via Steam and made a pickup.

I agree.

 

[scrappinkat]

I wonder what evidence they have which convinced the RCMP they involved the same suspects. I like the theory someone else had upthread that maybe one (or both) of the guns is registered to Kam's family. That makes a lot of sense, I think. But if they took a gun from LD that also works in terms of the double suicide by gun part.

In one of the photos from where Len Dycks body was found they have several little markers set out, people have suggested bullet casings but the quality of photo isn’t good enough to be able to really tell. IMO though there are a few stains on the ground that look a lot like soaked in blood. Perhaps there are bullet casings that match ones found at the murder scene of Fowler and Deese.

 

[FactFinder3000]

At the moment we don't know where the guns came from. I am sure the RCMP will be able to trace them.

We know absolutely nothing about KM's family, and I think it's wrong to speculate so furiously that they were the source. People have to leave that alone. It is just adding to their pain to have these rumours out there.

I think that theory is appealing because if it were true, then KM's family would be able to be punished, and there would be some vengeance for the victims. People don't have the same faith that a black market dealer would be caught and punished.

Yeah, I think there is a good chance the RCMP will tell us this, so why the unending wild speculation? There is absolutely no reason to go in any one direction on this, so the discussion has basically been everybody naming every possible way they can think of to get a gun. I don't see how that is helpful.

 

[Gina20]

Some guesswork on my part but it may’ve went like this -

Van is repossessed from prior owner and sold at auction, as are the vast majority of repos. Plates remain intact, prior owner had no reason to remove them as registration is no longer valid.

Van is bought at auction by the ranch owner. But as long as it’s hauled away on a flatbed or towed, anything but driven, purchaser isn’t required to register or insure van. It sits on ranch and later LF buys van from ranch owner.

But if the original plates still remained on the van when it was found on July 15th, any VIN check would lead back to the repo only.

Beyond that it would take a bit of police leg work to first contact the bank involved in the repo, then to determine the auction company who sold it, to have them check their records to find the name and address of the new purchaser, then contact that person to learn the identity of the occupants of the van on the Alaskan Highway.

JMO

As we know, a man in Dawson Creek stated that the van belonged to his father-in-law, who died. The van was sold at auction in 2018. This was from an article in the Vancouver Courier. How did he know this was the very same van that Lucas Fowler was driving? The RCMP must have told him.

Some people in Dawson Creek maintain a post office box in Bay Tree, Alberta. Alberta insurance is cheaper, which is why they do it. If that van had always been registered in Alberta, it never would have to pass a vehicle inspection in B.C. or in Alberta. As previously posted, the vehicle, once licensed and registered in Alberta, wouldn't have to be reregistered and licensed in B.C. For some time if being used by a traveller.

 

[Jealoushe]

Real life scenario. A 16-year-old boy borrowed his mother's car and crashed it into another vehicle. He had no driver's licence. It had actually been rescinded in another province. The mother found out and reported her car stolen by her son. The car was deemed uninsured and went to the government department for uninsured drivers. Nearly a year went by before the vehicle that was hit could be fixed, and the owner was told they'd have to sign a release promising not to sue. The owner refused to sign the waiver and more time went on.

The mother who owned the uninsured vehicle was off the hook. The boy was under the age of majority, so it's doubtful anything much happened to him in the way of consequences or getting a record. The owner of the vehicle that was hit was prevented from learning what was going on exactly because the boy was a minor.

Just saying.

<modsnip: removed personalized question>The car actually was insured, but the driver wasn't. Normally the insurance company will pay the loss to fix or replace, but subrogate the driver who didn't have insurance (sue them for the damages). So this example doesn't really make sense but I am not sure if that is because of how the post is written?

Cars do not get sent to any government department for uninsured vehicles. So not sure what information is getting crossed here.

Also if there was a third party, the person who was hit I assume, they would be certainly be filled on the situation. Minors in the fact of driving laws are not protected by publication bans. This post has some major holes.

 

[Jealoushe]

It's really easy to get a gun in Canada. It is a MYTH that it is not. It is probably just as easy here as it is in the US.

 

[10ofRods]

I suspect he is also very lonely, is a talker by nature, and feels compelled to reach out to somebody to work through this in his head but has nobody else in his life he could do so with. I suspect that Bryer was whatever support system that his father had, and now he is gone.

MOO

It's so good to see some compassion here. I believe the same thing. Alan S. has no one, and it is not uncommon for lonely people to talk to anyone who will listen, especially if they are a talker. Without his need to communicate (which is very human and quite common), we wouldn't know as much about the circumstances under which Bryer was raised.

I don't think most people here would consider Alan to be mentally ill if they met him at the supermarket or he showed up at your garage sale.

There's been a lot of media focus on how troubled and "in pain" BS must have been, to go on a murder spree. But Kam has to be "troubled" and "in pain" too, right?

Most families have dynamics that can be criticized if one of their kids becomes a heinous murderer.

 

[scrappinkat]

I think that's where Steam comes in. I think that's how the connected to people in the black market.

Realistically why would people on Steam be more prone to illegal activities? They are logged into Steam for legit purposes of playing online games.

 

[1987]

auction listing for the van
1986 CHEV BONAVENTURE VAN

 

[scrappinkat]

I've been trying to source the talk about Kam being a mod/admin and haven't been able to yet because I couldn't remember which game it was.

That was written in one of the early articles, where reporters had talked to gamer friends. I have a screenshot from the article but no link sorry.

 

[Kaydence]

Realistically why would people on Steam are more prone to illegal activities? They are logged into Steam for legit purposes of playing online games.

Right. It seems the people discussing Steam (and gaming in general) don't have much experience with it. There is nothing about Steam that would lend itself to illegal activities.

My suggestion is anyone discussing gaming, go download Steam and get an account. There are many free games to play and you can get some experience with the interface. A few hours into an online game and it becomes clear people are logged on to play, not connect with the black market. There are FAR more efficient ways to do that.