Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[dreamwarrior66]

Yes, of course she had many capabilities but she needed assistance with daily living skills on a regular basis.

She may have needed assistance while walking, especially in difficult terrain, such as a steep hill, and definitely for all the stream and river crossings on the trail that leads to the waterfall.
She did not require a wheelchair or a walker, so obviously she was capable of getting around in a regular environment.

But in order to navigate her way through the jungle, it just doesn't make any sense that she could have done it alone.
She would have fallen many times, and that she did not have any severe injuries other than some bruises on her legs and scratches is unbelievable.

Just because she had disabilities doesn't mean she was not capable of travelling with her parents. They knew what her limitations were and I'm sure they had the means to help her.
That still doesn't mean she could have done all those things independently. If she never even went out into their garden by herself, imagine what it would be like to walk for days through the jungle. Imo

Looking at the terrain and reading the travel blogs about the hike to the waterfall, I'm not even sure if I could do it barefoot myself or even in flip flops. Kids with her disability range in abilities, but judging by what her family said about her, it would have been quite difficult for her to simply climb out of that window to begin with. I mean I think she went barefoot because she probably couldn't even tie her shoes. But then again, she might've been able to find some spare flip flops or resort provided slippers and went with those. The intruder theory has no evidence to back that up. No sign of forced entry, no 2nd set of footprints, no sexual assault or assault of any kind, no ransom demand, nothing. So, how'd she get there? I don't know if she had that kind of sheer determination. Maybe it was God's will. Or a spirit/jinn hexxed her mind. Someone helped her or gave her the courage but it was no normal human being.

 

[HayLouise]

NORA QUOIRIN FAMILY / LBT STATEMENT:

Lucie Blackman Trust

#NoraQuoirin #NoraAnneQuoirin

Lucie Blackman Trust on Twitter

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

The family don't seem inclined to let this go. They have been convinced from start a "crime" had taken place. Their belief in this is unnerving.

 

[Lilibet]

LATEST: NORA QUOIRIN – FAMILY CLARITY The family of Nora Quoirin would like to clarify several comments that have been attributed to the family or to people claiming to act on behalf of the family. (Thread) #NoraAnneQuoirin #NoraQuorin
BBM
Howard Johnson on Twitter

They wish it to be made absolutely clear that the only comments and statements relating to the disappearance, death, investigation and any other matters that are actually from the family are those released via Matthew Searle of the Lucie Blackman Trust.

Howard Johnson on Twitter

The family have only appointed Matthew Searle to act as a spokesman for them.Any other comments and views are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect the views of the immediate family or an accurate portrayal of the facts.

Howard Johnson on Twitter

The family urge media to rely on Lucie Blackman Trust statements and comments only from now on. The charity will release updates and statements when appropriate.

Howard Johnson on Twitter

Nora's family are concerned that continued reporting of comments such as those recently reported are unhelpful and may hinder any investigations, as well as causing confusion and distress for them.

Howard Johnson on Twitter

The Lucie Blackman Trust is arranging repatriation of Nora’s body and no further information concerning this, including dates or destinations, will be released at this point. #NoraAnneQuoirin #NoraQuoirin

Howard Johnson on Twitter

When we discussed this announcement earlier, we wondered whether grandpa Quoirin had spoken out of turn, and I do wonder what comments the family would like to “clarify.” That hasn’t been made clear, or did I miss something?

Tragic teen's family hit out at 'distressing, unhelpful' comments by relatives

 

[MsBetsy]

Let’s face it - her descriptions went from a child with mild disability to completely unable to walk on her own...

Actually that statement only came from her grandfather.

It's easy for a person who is not familiar with the proper terminology to not accurately describe a persons disabilities.

But I have read the description of her limitations and of the special education school she attended. If
she had mild disabilities there is no reason she could not have attended a regular school. Even children who are severely disabled can be mainstreamed. In fact, she never would have been allowed to attend a self contained special ed school if she were not eligible for those services. At least that's how it is in the US, but I can't imagine it would be any different there. It costs a huge amount of money for a school like that.


If Nora was eligible for the extensive therapies that were provided for her, she obviously did not have a mild disability. Most children who are born with her disorder do not live beyond a year.

Yet she had surgeries and hospitalizations and extensive care to treat her condition, so yes, in some ways she was extremely high functioning considering her disorder.

So it's not that it "went" from her being mildly disabled to her being "unable to walk", but I think it's more likely that some just don't have a clear understanding of her disability. Her mother specifically said she had problems with balance and coordination. So how much assistance she needed with walking is hard to say. She may have only needed help with stairs or she may just have tired easily.

As I have mentioned before I have had many students with similar disabilities.
Parents or grandparents don't always understand what category is accurate for their child.

I don't think Nora's mother ever described her disability as mild. In fact the way she described it tells me she had a very good understanding of her child. Not every parent does. Imo

 

[Njust1]

Actually that statement only came from her grandfather.

It's easy for a person who is not familiar with the proper terminology to not accurately describe a persons disabilities.

But I have read the description of her limitations and of the special education school she attended. If
she had mild disabilities there is no reason she could not have attended a regular school. Even children who are severely disabled can be mainstreamed. In fact, she never would have been allowed to attend a self contained special ed school if she were not eligible for those services. At least that's how it is in the US, but I can't imagine it would be any different there. It costs a huge amount of money for a school like that.


If Nora was eligible for the extensive therapies that were provided for her, she obviously did not have a mild disability. Most children who are born with her disorder do not live beyond a year.

Yet she had surgeries and hospitalizations and extensive care to treat her condition, so yes, in some ways she was extremely high functioning considering her disorder.

So it's not that it "went" from her being mildly disabled to her being "unable to walk", but I think it's more likely that some just don't have a clear understanding of her disability. Her mother specifically said she had problems with balance and coordination. So how much assistance she needed with walking is hard to say. She may have only needed help with stairs or she may just have tired easily.

As I have mentioned before I have had many students with similar disabilities.
Parents or grandparents don't always understand what category is accurate for their child.

I don't think Nora's mother ever described her disability as mild. In fact the way she described it tells me she had a very good understanding of her child. Not every parent does. Imo

I am only referring to the first press releases on the day she went missing. Then, it was described as child with mild leaning difficulty. Later, I think in day 5, they made another press release describing her rare genetic condition to do with her brain maldevelopment.

I am aware of the fact that some special needs can go to normal school. I am a mum of a special needs child - who would love it if my kid could still join mainstream. Alas, she also has cognitive and physical issues (like Nora was).

I have been following this case from day 1 because I almost went to the same resort a few weeks ago when I was in Malaysia and decided to go to another place (in Malaysia) because of my child’s disability. Also, the day she arrived in Malaysia was the day, we left Malaysia. We probably took the plane she arrived on, to fly to London that evening.

Too many coincidences.

 

[Njust1]

If you could find newspaper articles from the 4th August, you should read the description of Nora given by her parents. @MsBetsy. Surely, it was a teenage with mild learning disability...

Actually that statement only came from her grandfather.

It's easy for a person who is not familiar with the proper terminology to not accurately describe a persons disabilities.

But I have read the description of her limitations and of the special education school she attended. If
she had mild disabilities there is no reason she could not have attended a regular school. Even children who are severely disabled can be mainstreamed. In fact, she never would have been allowed to attend a self contained special ed school if she were not eligible for those services. At least that's how it is in the US, but I can't imagine it would be any different there. It costs a huge amount of money for a school like that.


If Nora was eligible for the extensive therapies that were provided for her, she obviously did not have a mild disability. Most children who are born with her disorder do not live beyond a year.

Yet she had surgeries and hospitalizations and extensive care to treat her condition, so yes, in some ways she was extremely high functioning considering her disorder.

So it's not that it "went" from her being mildly disabled to her being "unable to walk", but I think it's more likely that some just don't have a clear understanding of her disability. Her mother specifically said she had problems with balance and coordination. So how much assistance she needed with walking is hard to say. She may have only needed help with stairs or she may just have tired easily.

As I have mentioned before I have had many students with similar disabilities.
Parents or grandparents don't always understand what category is accurate for their child.

I don't think Nora's mother ever described her disability as mild. In fact the way she described it tells me she had a very good understanding of her child. Not every parent does. Imo[/QUOTE

 

[Ardoch]

If they find her clothes (or they have already) it will give a better indication of her movements.
In the circumstances that N found herself in, was her instinct for survival to keep walking?
I do wonder though, given her special needs, that she didn't just stay in one small area and respond when/if she heard voices.
I'm jumping to conclusions as to how someone with N's condition would react in a situation when they're lost and desperate.
So many ifs and questions.

 

[cocomisty]

Actually that statement only came from her grandfather.

It's easy for a person who is not familiar with the proper terminology to not accurately describe a persons disabilities.

But I have read the description of her limitations and of the special education school she attended. If
she had mild disabilities there is no reason she could not have attended a regular school. Even children who are severely disabled can be mainstreamed. In fact, she never would have been allowed to attend a self contained special ed school if she were not eligible for those services. At least that's how it is in the US, but I can't imagine it would be any different there.

My daughter attends a special needs school here in the UK. There are many children in her school (my daughter included) that simply can't cope in a classroom with 30 other children and the special school has small classes of less than 10 pupils.

We tried mainstream school but it was not suitable, she couldn't cope and didn't have the same focus as the "normal" children and therefore it affected the other children's education as well.

My daughter has autism and gets a lot of sensory input and different therapies in her school which she never got in mainstream school.

The point of my post was to let you know children don't need to be severely disabled to attend a special school here in the UK.

 

[Peppery]

stress can cause ulcers. People have posted medical/scientific articles about it. Can you post any that state otherwise?

The posted articles are not from respected medical journals,

NHS Scotland
Stomach ulcer (Gastric ulcer)

Mayo Clinic
Peptic ulcer - Symptoms and causes

Johns Hopkins
FAQs about Peptic Ulcer Disease | Johns Hopkins Department of Gastroenterology and Hepatology

UCLA Medical Center
h[URL='https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/10350-peptic-ulcer-disease']ttps://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/10350-peptic-ulcer-diseasettp://healthinfo.uclahealth.org/Search/85,P00394[/URL]

Cleveland Clinic
Peptic Ulcer Disease | Cleveland Clinic

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Negri Sembilan Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Aminuddin Harun believes the tourism industry will not be affected by the tragic death of Irish teenager Nora Anne Quoirin.

He said this today when asked by reporters whether the industry was at risk, after launching a Port Dickson-level Farm Day celebration at Dataran Kampung Pachitan here.

Expressing the hope that tourists would continue to visit the state, Aminuddin said the tourism sector was the biggest contributor to the state’s economy.

The state government will decide on August 31 whether the resort where Nora Anne, 15, and her family stayed, and from where she disappeared, would be allowed to continue to operate, he said.

He said all aspects would be studied, including the resort’s security, construction and certification.
N. Sembilan MB believes tourism unaffected by Nora Anne tragedy | Malay Mail

 

[NoSI]

The posted articles are not from respected medical journals,

NHS Scotland
Stomach ulcer (Gastric ulcer)

Mayo Clinic
Peptic ulcer - Symptoms and causes

Johns Hopkins
FAQs about Peptic Ulcer Disease | Johns Hopkins Department of Gastroenterology and Hepatology

UCLA Medical Center
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/10350-peptic-ulcer-diseasettp://healthinfo.uclahealth.org/Search/85,P00394

Cleveland Clinic
Peptic Ulcer Disease | Cleveland Clinic

Thank you so much for the links! They are high quality sources and i totally appreciate your point. Again, i am not medical expert by any means, but we may have to distinguish between a chronic stomach ulcer and a acute stress ulcer. And it is a very good possibly that Nora suffered from chronic stomach ulcers that worsened and maybe developed a stress ulcer/stress ulcers on top of it. Since i work in psych in a medical hospital, i can definitely attest that anxiety (which stresses the body), for example, increases ulcer risk. MOO.

Stress ulcer: Symptoms and treatments

UpToDate

https://www.clinicalcorrelations.or...tiology-and-pathophysiology-of-stress-ulcers/
- This article looks at ICU setting, but i think it is still applicable.

 

[neesaki]

Negri Sembilan Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Aminuddin Harun believes the tourism industry will not be affected by the tragic death of Irish teenager Nora Anne Quoirin.

He said this today when asked by reporters whether the industry was at risk, after launching a Port Dickson-level Farm Day celebration at Dataran Kampung Pachitan here.

Expressing the hope that tourists would continue to visit the state, Aminuddin said the tourism sector was the biggest contributor to the state’s economy.

The state government will decide on August 31 whether the resort where Nora Anne, 15, and her family stayed, and from where she disappeared, would be allowed to continue to operate, he said.

He said all aspects would be studied, including the resort’s security, construction and certification.
N. Sembilan MB believes tourism unaffected by Nora Anne tragedy | Malay Mail

Unbelievable, so now the resort is to blame.

 

[Chiatos]

Volunteer: That trail is also hard to navigate for people without a disability. There is thick vegetation that constantly scrapes against your legs. The inclination of the terrain varies from 20 to 40 degrees and you have to cross two rather deep streams to reach the spot where she was found. It is slippery and rocky. My shoes got completely ruined. And Nora was supposed to have walked there on bare feet.....

Dat pad is al heel lastig voor mensen zonder een beperking. De begroeiing is er dik en trekt aan je benen, het hellingspercentage varieert van 20 tot 40 procent en je moet twee behoorlijk diepe stroompjes over om bij de plek te komen waar zij is gevonden. Het is er glad en rotsachtig. Mijn schoenen waren compleet vernield. En Nora zou daar dan blootsvoets naartoe moeten zijn gelopen...”

The police: We know the CoD, we know where she ended up, but we dont't know how she got there...
De politie: „We weten waaraan Nora is gestorven, we weten waar ze is terechtgekomen, we weten niet hoe ze daar is terechtgekomen...”
Dood Nora (15) steeds raadselachtiger

 

[SuperTmo]

Actually that statement only came from her grandfather.

It's easy for a person who is not familiar with the proper terminology to not accurately describe a persons disabilities.

But I have read the description of her limitations and of the special education school she attended. If
she had mild disabilities there is no reason she could not have attended a regular school. Even children who are severely disabled can be mainstreamed. In fact, she never would have been allowed to attend a self contained special ed school if she were not eligible for those services. At least that's how it is in the US, but I can't imagine it would be any different there. It costs a huge amount of money for a school like that.


If Nora was eligible for the extensive therapies that were provided for her, she obviously did not have a mild disability. Most children who are born with her disorder do not live beyond a year.

Yet she had surgeries and hospitalizations and extensive care to treat her condition, so yes, in some ways she was extremely high functioning considering her disorder.

So it's not that it "went" from her being mildly disabled to her being "unable to walk", but I think it's more likely that some just don't have a clear understanding of her disability. Her mother specifically said she had problems with balance and coordination. So how much assistance she needed with walking is hard to say. She may have only needed help with stairs or she may just have tired easily.

As I have mentioned before I have had many students with similar disabilities.
Parents or grandparents don't always understand what category is accurate for their child.

I don't think Nora's mother ever described her disability as mild. In fact the way she described it tells me she had a very good understanding of her child. Not every parent does. Imo

If someone wants to pay enough, I’m sure their kid could go to her school. Of the kids born alive with her brain condition, I don’t know that it is true that most die before a year, since there is a large range of severity. It sounds like she had the least severe form.

I don’t think anyone meant the mom called it mild, it is just that the description of her abilities seemed to get worse as time went on. Had they made it very clear that she can walk just fine, albeit with some balance struggles, perhaps people would have searched more further away and in harder to access areas.

 

[MsBetsy]

I am only referring to the first press releases on the day she went missing. Then, it was described as child with mild leaning difficulty. Later, I think in day 5, they made another press release describing her rare genetic condition to do with her brain maldevelopment.

I am aware of the fact that some special needs can go to normal school. I am a mum of a special needs child - who would love it if my kid could still join mainstream. Alas, she also has cognitive and physical issues (like Nora was).

I have been following this case from day 1 because I almost went to the same resort a few weeks ago when I was in Malaysia and decided to go to another place (in Malaysia) because of my child’s disability. Also, the day she arrived in Malaysia was the day, we left Malaysia. We probably took the plane she arrived on, to fly to London that evening.

Too many coincidences.

Yes, I remember. In the beginning there were many inconsistencies and the reporting made it unclear.
But later it was explained in more detail in the post in the LBT.
I think that's why there were so many conflicting reports by the media.
No fault of the parents, however. I'm sure it made them even more frustrated. Imo

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Nasty vibes creeping into the thread again.

These poor parents have just lost their daughter.

ETA in my opinion

 

[SuperTmo]

ITA

We may be the only ones in this boat, but that’s ok. I’ll always think this was handled very oddly!

 

[Teratai]

We may be the only ones in this boat, but that’s ok. I’ll always think this was handled very oddly!

Agreed

 

[MsBetsy]

If you could find newspaper articles from the 4th August, you should read the description of Nora given by her parents. @MsBetsy. Surely, it was a teenage with mild learning disability...

Yes, the description was explained in more detail and clarified later.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. To me ADHD, Dyslexia, language Disorders, and other LD's are mild disabilities. Many behavior disorders are mild disabilities.
Anyway, I was referring to how she would be classified in terms of SpecialEd. Imo