Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[pearl]

Carter specifically states he "recently watched a movie called 'The Shack.' But also mentions there is a book too. But during the PC, he specifically says he personally watched the movie.

It was released theatrically just weeks after the murders.

Yep, you are right.

 

[Charlot123]

Carter specifically states he "recently watched a movie called 'The Shack.' But also mentions there is a book too. But during the PC, he specifically says he personally watched the movie.

It was released theatrically just weeks after the murders.

Yes. He is mentioning the film. He is also saying “they are not how you have left them”, sorry, imprecise citation. All of it seems to be alluding to religion, but there also is appeal to conscience that Carter hopes the perp still has.

That, essentially, rules out all drug addicts around, all meat packers and drivers - because how Carter would know about their conscience? MOO.

I would not be surprised if there is some weird form of conscience left in the perp, but the fear is stronger. And as silence progresses, the “twist” one of the LEs (Kim?) was speaking about seems to be impossible to resolve.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes. He is mentioning the film. He is also saying “they are not how you have left them”, sorry, imprecise citation. All of it seems to be alluding to religion, but there also is appeal to conscience that Carter hopes the perp still has.

That, essentially, rules out all drug addicts around, all meat packers and drivers - because how Carter would know about their conscience? MOO.

I would not be surprised if there is some weird form of conscience left in the perp, but the fear is stronger. And as silence progresses, the “twist” one of the LEs (Kim?) was speaking about seems to be impossible to resolve.

I'm sorry, but IMO a person who murders two young teenagers doesn't have a conscience to begin with.
jmo

 

[Sugarcane18]

I think that the perp is not a psychopath. I wonder if he has a real emotional problem, and is unaware of it himself. There is something very ... different about this case. Don’t other people feel it, too?

There must be a reason why the LE was alluding to his conscience. It never happens in murder cases. Who, and when, assumes that the double murderer has conscience? Yet here LE did. And I don’t think it had to with the fact that the perp, allegedly, read “the Shack”. JMO x 2.

Was LE alluding to the murderer's conscience? Perhaps LE knows that the murderer is a religious zealot with a God complex and was alluding to that.

Imo no person who can take the lives of 2 little girls has a conscience at all.

 

[TL4S]

Yes. He is mentioning the film. He is also saying “they are not how you have left them”, sorry, imprecise citation. All of it seems to be alluding to religion, but there also is appeal to conscience that Carter hopes the perp still has.

That, essentially, rules out all drug addicts around, all meat packers and drivers - because how Carter would know about their conscience? MOO.

I would not be surprised if there is some weird form of conscience left in the perp, but the fear is stronger. And as silence progresses, the “twist” one of the LEs (Kim?) was speaking about seems to be impossible to resolve.

I've looked but can't find where Sgt. Holeman was talking about the "twist" in this case, but iirc, it was right after discussing another case that was much easier to solve because the victims were related to the perpetrators. It's right after that he says this case has a "twist." IMO, that could simply mean it's harder to solve because maybe there is no relation or link between the victims and the perpetrator(s). And, not only that, but there's video/audio made by the victim. Just one thought.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think that the perp is not a psychopath. I wonder if he has a real emotional problem, and is unaware of it himself. There is something very ... different about this case. Don’t other people feel it, too?

There must be a reason why the LE was alluding to his conscience. It never happens in murder cases. Who, and when, assumes that the double murderer has conscience? Yet here LE did. And I don’t think it had to with the fact that the perp, allegedly, read “the Shack”. JMO x 2.

Maybe, the BG is educated and intelligent and it made sense, to approach him this way? He doesn't need to be religious. He does need to be a man, who is thinking a lot - maybe sometimes completely askew.

 

[TL4S]

Maybe, the BG is educated and intelligent and it made sense, to approach him this way?

I've said it before, but maybe something from the CS or audio showed a level of remorse, for whatever that's worth. Or LE figured it couldn't hurt to try, in case there is that little bit of conscience left?

 

[sunshineray]

Your theory is very plausible too. I have often considered that myself but have struggled with what examples of evidence would point to "The Shack" other than a piece of the book, or a receipt for it or something like that.

I haven't seen the movie or read the book. A small plot synopsis I did read talks about a man who as a child suffered, along with his mother, abused at his drunken father's hands. It's possible if LE does feel they know who BG is, his circumstances in life may mirror The Shack's main character? Or another possibility is the movie came out in early March 2017 and posters have commented how churches in the Delphi area organized groups to go see it together. Maybe mentioning that was supposed to strike a cord for someone involved with BG or BG himself? How can you be so involved in something like that and yet commit such an atrocities as murdering two young girls. ISP Carter did state at the April PC that he thought the killer might just have a shred of conscious left, turn yourself in. That's a directed comment. Not something you'd think a officer would feel about or say to a random unknown killer. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I'm sorry, but IMO a person who murders two young teenagers doesn't have a conscience to begin with.
jmo

I agree but that may not be how they see themselves. I don't think that conference was done on the cuff, any of it. I think it was well planned out what was said. I could be wrong though as ISP Carter does strike me as a gentle soul and a man of faith who could have ad-libbed certain religious things.

 

[TL4S]

I agree but that may not be how they see themselves. I don't think that conference was done on the cuff, any of it. I think it was well planned out what was said. I could be wrong though as ISP Carter does strike me as a gentle soul and a man of faith who could have ad-libbed certain religious things.

I agree. I haven't seen any of the other press conferences, so was there religious speak in them?

There is one bit of evidence that LE has given us - they have more audio. We don't know what's on it, but we do know there's more. Maybe the audio was used to help make the profile. Maybe BG said something to the girls in response to them asking God for help. I'm not trying to be dramatic or bringing the girls' religious beliefs into play, but I'm just trying to think of reasons why there could be religious mention on the audio. Just brainstorming...

 

[GoodKnight]

I wonder if he has a real emotional problem, and is unaware of it himself. There is something very ... different about this case. Don’t other people feel it, too?

There must be a reason why the LE was alluding to his conscience. It never happens in murder cases. Who, and when, assumes that the double murderer has conscience? Yet here LE did. And I don’t think it had to with the fact that the perp, allegedly, read “the Shack”. JMO x 2.

I think that the perp is not a psychopath. I wonder if he has a real emotional problem, and is unaware of it himself. There is something very ... different about this case. Don’t other people feel it, too?

There must be a reason why the LE was alluding to his conscience. It never happens in murder cases. Who, and when, assumes that the double murderer has conscience? Yet here LE did. And I don’t think it had to with the fact that the perp, allegedly, read “the Shack”. JMO x 2.

I dont know why but your first paragraph of the perp being "unaware of it himself" just stands out at me so much especially when I consider the metaphor that the book is based off.

 

[gitana1]

Was LE alluding to the murderer's conscience? Perhaps LE knows that the murderer is a religious zealot with a God complex and was alluding to that.

Imo no person who can take the lives of 2 little girls has a conscience at all.

One would think. However investigators routinely make appeals to suspects' conscience and it sometimes works.

I've come to realize it's simplistic to say that someone who murders a child cannot have a conscience. But even psychopaths can to some degree and not all murderers are psychopaths, despite our brains' desires to fit them into neat packages that explain it all.

For that reason some admitted serial killers will confess to every murder except maybe one- the one in which they covered the victim's face for some reason. Some vestige of guilt of some sort.

Some killers have nightmares. Or they can't look at the victims' family. Or they confess when given a shred of empathy by the mother of their victim or whatever.

None of this is ever black and white. It's always super complex and nuanced. I don't pretend to understand it at all. But that at least I've come to comprehend.

 

[TL4S]

One would think. However investigators routinely make appeals to suspects' conscience and it sometimes works.

I've come to realize it's simplistic to say that someone who murders a child cannot have a conscience. But even psychopaths can to some degree and not all murderers are psychopaths, despite our brains' desires to fit them into neat packages that explain it all.

For that reason some admitted serial killers will confess to every murder except maybe one- the one in which they covered the victim's face for some reason. Some vestige of guilt of some sort.

Some killers have nightmares. Or they can't look at the victims' family. Or they confess when given a shred of empathy by the mother of their victim or whatever.

None of this is ever black and white. It's always super complex and nuanced. I don't pretend to understand it at all. But that at least I've come to comprehend.

I really like this post. It reminds us all that we know next to nothing about BG or the case. We don't know motive, method, COD, TOD, or any other crimes he did that day aside from murder. It's not enough to go by in making our own profiles or theories.

 

[sunshineray]

I agree. I haven't seen any of the other press conferences, so was there religious speak in them?

There is one bit of evidence that LE has given us - they have more audio. We don't know what's on it, but we do know there's more. Maybe the audio was used to help make the profile. Maybe BG said something to the girls in response to them asking God for help. I'm not trying to be dramatic or bringing the girls' religious beliefs into play, but I'm just trying to think of reasons why there could be religious mention on the audio. Just brainstorming...

I only saw the April 2017 in full, only snippets of others. I also saw the recent Flora case one where ISP Carter is asked about the Delphi case and answers the question asked if all the family members being cleared with "the vast majority" have been cleared.

 

[TL4S]

Okay, so I'll throw out something different (and probably extremely implausible).

So let's say BG was parked at the CPS lot, which LE has put a vehicle there as late as 5pm. If we say the girls were killed around 2:30-3pm (which could be wrong), then what was BG doing for 2 hours? There could be countless things, but here's just one thought. I'm going on the idea he didn't cross the creek, and didn't want to. Being wet would only make him uncomfortable and noticeable.

So LE initially was asking if anyone had been seen walking Hoosier Heartland hwy. What if BG took a roundabout way to get to the highway, with the least chance of being seen until he was on the highway itself. Then it could look like he was coming from the exact opposite direction of the crime when he headed back towards the parking lot.

I mapped out different routes through the woods and fields and came up with between 3 and a half to 4 miles, which comes out to be 2 hours or less. If he went south, he also could have followed a route through the woods and come up with the same, but I'll only post the north route because I'm probably insanely incorrect and nobody will care, anyway.

 

[sunshineray]

Okay, so I'll throw out something different (and probably extremely implausible).

So let's say BG was parked at the CPS lot, which LE has put a vehicle there as late as 5pm. If we say the girls were killed around 2:30-3pm (which could be wrong), then what was BG doing for 2 hours? There could be countless things, but here's just one thought. I'm going on the idea he didn't cross the creek, and didn't want to. Being wet would only make him uncomfortable and noticeable.

So LE initially was asking if anyone had been seen walking Hoosier Heartland hwy. What if BG took a roundabout way to get to the highway, with the least chance of being seen until he was on the highway itself. Then it could look like he was coming from the exact opposite direction of the crime when he headed back towards the parking lot.

I mapped out different routes through the woods and fields and came up with between 3 and a half to 4 miles, which comes out to be 2 hours or less. If he went south, he also could have followed a route through the woods and come up with the same, but I'll only post the north route because I'm probably insanely incorrect and nobody will care, anyway.

From where the girls were situated as BG was pictured crossing the bridge towards them, if he brought them "down the hill" right there on that side he'd have to cross the creek for them to wind up where the crime scene was. Unless you think he brought them back over the bridge?

 

[TL4S]

From where the girls were situated as BG was pictured crossing the bridge towards them, if he brought them "down the hill" right there on that side he'd have to cross the creek for them to wind up where the crime scene was. Unless you think he brought them back over the bridge?

I think either the girls crossed the creek to avoid having to be near BG, and he recrossed the bridge, went through the woods on the north side, and cut them off up the hill by where they were found. Or, maybe he recrossed, so the girls felt okay to recross, then he engaged them on the north end of the bridge somewhere. I think "down the hill" is the hill by the CS.

 

[gitana1]

Hinky meter off the charts: A few weeks ago, I watched a youtube video that cannot be linked here. It features three people walking the Monon High Bridge and discussing the case. One of the young males looks so much like the new sketch that I actually emailed in the tip. I know we can't sleuth this person and I wouldn't really even know how (not that tech savvy) and just have a first name anyway. When asked how many times he's been to/across the bridge by the other guy, he says "Fou....three." Three, huh. Something about him makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Anyone know which video I'm talking about? Sorry I have to be vague. And sorry if this post has to be deleted, I'm new.

You can probably find it super easy if you go on to YouTube and type in monon high bridge.

 

[Krwiley60]

I apologize for a late response to this but yes, I believe BG was interviewed and may have contributed to one of the sketches, perhaps the first. I think he did assist in the first OBG sketch. Another witness assists in a sketch and they toss it aside due to the video matching the sketch. When the case started getting cold, they attempt to go back to this witness, who is a significant witness and they can’t find him due to providing false info. LE finally realizes that they’ve been duped. The witness was OBG and they lost him. So they issue the NBG sketch. At the April presser they’re talking to him calling him out on his bs sketch and tell him in so many words, we figured you out and you never thought we would. Common sense tells me that the witness giving direction for the first sketch “saw the BG” and LE came full circle to say, he is the BG. LE admits they had that sketch for a long time. I think police had 2 people who were interviewed having seen BG; one was a credible witness and the other was BG. They changed course a little too late giving BG with false identity time to make a run. MOO

The problem I have with this scenario is that it is imperative that an investigator verify the ID of all witnesses whether by a valid photo ID, or in the absence of a photo ID, by establishing the witnesses identity through other means such as public records, third party etc. Even if deception was involved, they would still verify his ID.

 

[gitana1]

It's all beyond me Tresir ,man.

Do LE think the perp had a scarf with him that day? Are they only wanting info from people who saw him sans scarf or scarf in 'down' mode?

Why have they not continued to include it in descriptions?

Does anyone really think a scarf is going to be what identifies the perp at this point?