CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

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On the "stay" detail...

A family member is in the hospital and my dad and I went for a walk around the building to look at things since it's an old hospital and my dad as an EMT transported patients there many times over the years.

There were several times when my dad would stop and start talking to someone or would go in one direction and I wanted to go in another. I'm deaf, so he didn't say "stay" or anything like that, but it was implied that I should hang on while my dad talked to this or that hospital worker. But I wasn't about to hang around and wait, so I would keep on a little bit until I found someplace to sit down or lean against that suited me to wait for my dad to catch up.

So for me BT leaving RT behind after he wanted her to hold up is not exactly a clear cut sign of a disfunctional relationship.

I’m sorry about your family member and I agree with you about not waiting. I don’t think it’s a sign of a dysfunctional relationship either. RT may take a long time getting the photo set up perfectly. I’d keep going too. I do that when my husband-who-reads-everything and I-who-keeps-moving go to a museum. :D Personally, I think RT took much longer than he thinks he did taking that photo. I also think he might have decided to relieve himself, which at his age can take a little longer. IF he is being truthful, I just think he underestimated the time he delayed and BT got lost.
JMO
 
I presume I can post this because it's public information - but they straight up lived in the desert. One would think that they were used to / aware of the conditions?
@campbellsoup :) Thanks for your post.

Yes, seems like they should have been used to/aware of conditions, but --------
Maybe BT was accustomed to laying out/lounging in backyard recliner and did this multiple times per week. Seems like this passive activity acclimation to similar heat would not necessarily prep her for her, imo, walk/hike in Mojave, even just a couple miles.
Or maybe her backyard lounging was usu done at 10:00am or 4:00pm, a different time of day.
In backyard, if she started feeling dizzy, lightheaded, etc, she would have been just a few steps away from re-hydration and cool temps in the house.

jmo
 
BT's Condition on Way Back to RV - Heat Sickness?
I would think if BT were suffering from any of these symptoms she would have mentioned this to RT
RT has not said she was feeling poorly, or acting strangely...
@Nerissa :) Thanks for your post. snipped for focus
Seems possible she did have heat sickness symptoms or other med symptoms and did not tell him directly/expressly. Or maybe she did not recognize them as heat sickness. < imo.
IIRC, no link, RT said in interview ~ Barbara went to "use the RV."
Struck me as a bit odd when I heard it.
1. Did I mishear? Did he say - use the potty?
2. Was there a glitch in audio recording? Did he say - use the potty?
3. Did he stutter/mispeak? Did he start to say use the potty/lav/head, then changed his mind about referencing bodily functions on tv?


'Use the RV'? Meaning --- what? Or did he say something else?

Seems possible, in telling RT she was headed for RV, BT might have glossed over her symptoms and just said - gotta use the potty, so that's essentially what he repeated but euphemized. Or maybe not.
 
Heat Index That Afternoon Close to Turnout?

I recall a post w temperatures that day/afternoon close to turnout. I'll try to find.
Did anyone post humidity % for that same time there? And wind speed?
Re heat index calculations, I'd never read about full sunshine increasing the H-I by up to 15F
. Fry an egg on the sidewalk? :D Yes, and roast a turkey too.

"The Heat Index is a measure of how hot it really feels when relative humidity is factored in with the actual air temperature.... Heat Index chart for area with high heat but low relative humidity. Since heat index values were devised for shady, light wind conditions, exposure to full sunshine can increase heat index values by up to 15°F. Also, strong winds, particularly with very hot, dry air, can be extremely hazardous."

heatindex.png


https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png
 
OT but I totally relate to that. Its family joke taking my husband to a museum. He reads every single piece of info.

LOL! More OT: Our daughter (who keeps moving like I do) made the mistake of taking her Dad shopping for shoes (for him) at the mall. She came home verrry cranky after he had to look at EVERYTHING and said “Shopping with Dad is like shopping with a slug!” :D

Perhaps being with RT taking photos was like taking photos with a slug, so BT “needed to use” the RV to maintain her patience. :)
 
I would think if BT were suffering from any of these symptoms she would have mentioned this to RT

RT has not said
she was feeling poorly, or acting strangely.

In fact, I don't think we've been given any particular 'reason' she was going to the RV aside from the fact their little jaunt was through & they were in the process of returning when he wanted her to 'stay' while he took more pics, she didn't and he 'lost sight of her' when she rounded a corner to never be seen again

JMO but I don't think it's reasonable that a person would be suffering any of these symptoms & not say a word to their companion. Simpy makes no sense.
We really don't know what he has or has not said except what's in those two media interviews.
He will have said much more to the police, and they will have asked those kind of questions.

My money is on their having a disagreement,not necessarily anything major, and she stormed off. Understandably he wouldn't want to disclose that detail to the media or the wider public, but he may have admitted it to the police.
 
I’m sorry about your family member and I agree with you about not waiting. I don’t think it’s a sign of a dysfunctional relationship either. RT may take a long time getting the photo set up perfectly. I’d keep going too. I do that when my husband-who-reads-everything and I-who-keeps-moving go to a museum. :D Personally, I think RT took much longer than he thinks he did taking that photo. I also think he might have decided to relieve himself, which at his age can take a little longer. IF he is being truthful, I just think he underestimated the time he delayed and BT got lost.
JMO
I also wonder whether, once BT had declined to wait for RT and had gone on ahead, he might have felt less of a need to rush. So maybe another photo or two after the one he stopped for, then continue strolling at a leisurely pace etc. That would be a completely reasonable thing to do IMO, with your partner no longer standing waiting for you or (speculating) asking you to hurry, but presumably resting comfortably back at the RV, or on her way there.
 
We really don't know what he has or has not said except what's in those two media interviews.
He will have said much more to the police, and they will have asked those kind of questions.

My money is on their having a disagreement,not necessarily anything major, and she stormed off. Understandably he wouldn't want to disclose that detail to the media or the wider public, but he may have admitted it to the police.

She doesn't even have to storm. She can just walk off in exasperation. Who hasn't done that? If she then failed to take a turn to go back to the RV, she would still be able to see the RV for a while walking in the wrong direction.

BTW, my daughter got to high stage 2 hyperthermia last spring in Lake Havasu. She lost consciousness. She did have a severe headache but she gets migraines, she mentioned it to no one because she hates to complain. She had vomiting, but that happened after she was unconscious. Fortunately, her husband woke up, noticed, roused her, got her into a tepid bath (she was already back inside, thank goodness). Her temperature was just a hair under 103 (but that was after being inside for at least half an hour).

I've had hyperthermia, stage 2, myself. Was super uncomfortable at the beginning, with racing pulse, no sweat, etc. Was on I-40 at the time, following my ex-husband who was in a car with air conditioning and the kids. He ignored my signal to pull over (that was early on). As an hour went by, I became euphoric. I rolled down all the windows, began singing with the radio and waved at everyone I passed. We stopped as planned in Needles and my ex-husband (a physician) knew instantly something was wrong. He wouldn't let me drink an iced drink until I had had room temperature water (don't know if that's proper treatment - he wasn't an ER physician). We stayed in the A/C'ed McDonald's for quite a while, but I continued to feel weak and disoriented (no longer euphoric, medium headache - also common for me, unable to eat/slight nausea) so we went to a motel. I still don't think this was worth an ER visit but I do think my daughter should have gone (although...they would have done much as her husband did, just to cool her off again, but vital signs would have been taken).

So, I'm well aware that in the early stages, one merely feels uncomfortable (and I was super irritable before the euphoria set in). The effects of heat on mood were well known to Native Americans, and euphoria was one of the (desired) side effects of the Sweat Lodge.

Sweat Lodges in Drug Rehab

That's why heat is being used (as in this article) in drug rehabs.

I now know that if it's really hot and I'm starting to feel impatient, restless and irritable, I should get myself to a cooler place. Not surprisingly, our brains are designed to get us out of trouble. So Barb, already somewhat compromised by heat (Nixle says 104 out there in the mid-afternoon) may very well have gone to the RV/truck to cool off (and if my husband were deciding to take pictures, there'd have been an increase in my irritability, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't think as clearly when I'm irritated).

It's just one scenario to keep in mind. And it also explains the behavior of some people out on Lake Havasu or Lake Powell or especially Lake Mead, who get overheated, combine that with alcohol, and get themselves into quite a bit of trouble, doing things a sane person would probably not do.
 
She doesn't even have to storm. She can just walk off in exasperation. Who hasn't done that? If she then failed to take a turn to go back to the RV, she would still be able to see the RV for a while walking in the wrong direction.

BTW, my daughter got to high stage 2 hyperthermia last spring in Lake Havasu. She lost consciousness. She did have a severe headache but she gets migraines, she mentioned it to no one because she hates to complain. She had vomiting, but that happened after she was unconscious. Fortunately, her husband woke up, noticed, roused her, got her into a tepid bath (she was already back inside, thank goodness). Her temperature was just a hair under 103 (but that was after being inside for at least half an hour).

I've had hyperthermia, stage 2, myself. Was super uncomfortable at the beginning, with racing pulse, no sweat, etc. Was on I-40 at the time, following my ex-husband who was in a car with air conditioning and the kids. He ignored my signal to pull over (that was early on). As an hour went by, I became euphoric. I rolled down all the windows, began singing with the radio and waved at everyone I passed. We stopped as planned in Needles and my ex-husband (a physician) knew instantly something was wrong. He wouldn't let me drink an iced drink until I had had room temperature water (don't know if that's proper treatment - he wasn't an ER physician). We stayed in the A/C'ed McDonald's for quite a while, but I continued to feel weak and disoriented (no longer euphoric, medium headache - also common for me, unable to eat/slight nausea) so we went to a motel. I still don't think this was worth an ER visit but I do think my daughter should have gone (although...they would have done much as her husband did, just to cool her off again, but vital signs would have been taken).

So, I'm well aware that in the early stages, one merely feels uncomfortable (and I was super irritable before the euphoria set in). The effects of heat on mood were well known to Native Americans, and euphoria was one of the (desired) side effects of the Sweat Lodge.

Sweat Lodges in Drug Rehab

That's why heat is being used (as in this article) in drug rehabs.

I now know that if it's really hot and I'm starting to feel impatient, restless and irritable, I should get myself to a cooler place. Not surprisingly, our brains are designed to get us out of trouble. So Barb, already somewhat compromised by heat (Nixle says 104 out there in the mid-afternoon) may very well have gone to the RV/truck to cool off (and if my husband were deciding to take pictures, there'd have been an increase in my irritability, and I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't think as clearly when I'm irritated).

It's just one scenario to keep in mind. And it also explains the behavior of some people out on Lake Havasu or Lake Powell or especially Lake Mead, who get overheated, combine that with alcohol, and get themselves into quite a bit of trouble, doing things a sane person would probably not do.
Your scenario makes me wonder about the beer she was carrying around. When was the beer poured in the travel mug? From the RV at the beginning of the hike? It had to be super warm at that point. Why carry it around for so long? Did she ever ask for water? Or pour a little on her head if she was hot?
 
If I were on a desert walk with my wife, you can bet she would have me carry the gallon of water that she was also drinking- you guys are really stretching to find sinister intentions here.
Exactly. My husband always carries our water in his backpack,even when it is just a bottle! You can be guaranteed that, if we take a gallon, he's gonna be the one carrying it. And we share it.
 
Exactly. My husband always carries our water in his backpack,even when it is just a bottle! You can be guaranteed that, if we take a gallon, he's gonna be the one carrying it. And we share it.
IT could be also that she and RT had had water while out walking in the desert. Perhaps she grabbed a cold beer from his backpack for the short trip to the RV. Who knows?
 
As for all the possibilities of how BT could have become separated from RT and disappeared while on a 2 mile walk to and from their RV with the two of them together equipped with a gallon of water according to RT, on the way back to the RV, less than a mile from there with an uphill clear view of their trail and the RV parked below:

LE and SAR searched for her where RT said they were for 9 days and 'found no evidence of Barbara Thomas'
LE said they do not believe she was abducted
LE said they are not aware she has any medical conditions
Her husband and family said they go desert hiking and camping on a regular basis
RT did not say she wasn't feeling well or acting strange, only that she (he mumbled during this statement in the MSM interview) "needed to use the RV"

What other possibilities does that leave on the table?

LE and SAR 'overlooked' her and then her body being 'in the vicinity' searching with K9 units, helicopters, ATVs for 9 days
She was never there

MOO
 
If Robert is telling Truth..
She must be a personality that does not like to complain.. But feeling the sign of not feeling well.
She needed the RV.. Even though they are from that particular climate and therefore used to heat, she must have dropped like a rock while attempting to reach the RV.. Possibly even taking a short cut from what ever Rock RT wanted to take pictures of.
So it is important to start the search for Barbara from that spot.. We do not know where his foot was planted when he lost sight of her. I sure hope the SAR team did. Seems logical they would.
jmho
 
Exactly. My husband always carries our water in his backpack,even when it is just a bottle! You can be guaranteed that, if we take a gallon, he's gonna be the one carrying it. And we share it.
Different strokes for different folks. My spouse, myself, and anyone we're walking or hiking with always carry their own water. We don't have any statement from RT on what they typically did when it came to carrying water, only his statement that BT had a beer in her hand. MOO
 
If Robert is telling Truth..
She must be a personality that does not like to complain.. But feeling the sign of not feeling well.
She needed the RV.. Even though they are from that particular climate and therefore used to heat, she must have dropped like a rock while attempting to reach the RV.. Possibly even taking a short cut from what ever Rock RT wanted to take pictures of.
So it is important to start the search for Barbara from that spot.. We do not know where his foot was planted when he lost sight of her. I sure hope the SAR team did. Seems logical they would.
jmho
Well, LE made several statements after the search was called off that were somewhat startling to me, including that they were not aware of what time she disappeared or where she was at the time. It's posted in the Media Thread. MOO
 
As for all the possibilities of how BT could have become separated from RT and disappeared while on a 2 mile walk to and from their RV with the two of them together equipped with a gallon of water according to RT, on the way back to the RV, less than a mile from there with an uphill clear view of their trail and the RV parked below:

LE and SAR searched for her where RT said they were for 9 days and 'found no evidence of Barbara Thomas'
LE said they do not believe she was abducted
LE said they are not aware she has any medical conditions
Her husband and family said they go desert hiking and camping on a regular basis
RT did not say she wasn't feeling well or acting strange, only that she (he mumbled during this statement in the MSM interview) "needed to use the RV"

What other possibilities does that leave on the table?

LE and SAR 'overlooked' her and then her body being 'in the vicinity' searching with K9 units, helicopters, ATVs for 9 days
She was never there

MOO

Our VI @dbdb11 has said that the case detective told him that photos from RT's phone showed that he and BT were there when they said they were. (AFAIK, the VI has not seen the photos.)

That said, we don't know what timeline RT gave LE. IIRC, in media interviews, he said he searched for BT for about an hour before calling 911. So in that account, he missed her around 2:30pm and their walk (and presumably the photos) was before then. The dispatch call log puts the 911 call at 3:26pm. (I'm guessing that's the time of the call but wonder if it could be the time of dispatch.) In a different timeline, @dbdb11's sister recalled RT telling the family he started to worry about BT at around noon and then called 911. In that account, their walk (and the photos) would be from sometime before noon.

We've discussed those different timelines ad nauseam here already, I'm just saying that even if the detective told the VI that the photos show that RT/BT were there when he said they were, we don't know exactly what that means. JMO
 
Well, LE made several statements after the search was called off that were somewhat startling to me, including that they were not aware of what time she disappeared or where she was at the time. It's posted in the Media Thread. MOO
@dbdb11
If a drone search can be successful then those with drones need Robert to show them the spot.
They can fly a grid pattern from the spot to the RV including short cut routes recording everything as they go. Then those recordings can be analyzed for small details if needed. The best scenario is clothing or the cup shows up and is spotted while in flight.. If that luck were to happen. Nobody goes there, because LE has to be called in.
Weather is changing and it is starting to get dark earlier...

Keep your chin up ..
Walk into battle with confidence .. We are fighting the good fight here..
https://sardrones.org/participants-list/ ..
2 of them live close enough to perform ..
Barbara is listed on their website as a possible search and they need you as a family to ask for their help.. The rest is left up to God and his angles..
 
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A couple of points:
1: The conditions for dogs were far from optimal.

I should have clarified that I meant cadaver dogs, not air scent dogs. I don't even know when or if they were used on this case(I've only seen reference to tracking dogs in MSM), but if they were, they should have hit on a week-old or so body in that heat if it was within the search zone IMO.

I do think she is out there, just not near the RV.
 
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