Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[DiploRed]

I don't think they've arrested him purely based on his recent conviction. Seems like a waste of time to me. I also don't see why they'd arrest him on suspicion of murder if nothing has changed.

I am very interested in the part about the file being prepared for CPS. If that is an irrelevant detail then why add it to the statement? Seems very positive. Could be they need a few days to get it all ready particularly with some test results pending still?

 

[Newthoughts]

I wonder if the arrest came at a time when he would presumably be feeling low in order to question him when he’s vulnerable (if that’s the right word to use in the case of someone who behaves as he does). A sort of ‘get him when he’s down’ tactic to push a guilty plea or hope he feels so dejected and downhearted that he admits to involvement? Perhaps his wife has spoken more freely with LE since his conviction?

Why release him? (I too assume this means ‘release into custody’ - it just can’t be phrased that way) Was this to put new questions to him, gauge his responses, go away with the answers and then come back and pick up where they left off? I hope this doesn’t mean they’ve hit a brick wall.

IMO they know it’s him. They knew from the beginning. But without admittance of guilt (and his lawyers pleas that he wants to return to Poland ASAP - I bet he does! - didn’t instil me with confidence that his story or plea might change in relation to LS), they’re back to square one. I hope not.

Religious question for anyone who might know ... Presuming he’s catholic as his mum stated, would one have to stand up and admit guilt for god to forgive? Or can you simply ask god for forgiveness privately without admitting what you’ve done in court or to the police? His wearing of the noticeable crucifix - which he had never done before - I wondered if this was an attempt to look like the religious family man in court (not really gonna wash with that charge list!) or if it was some sort of self protection from a higher power. Forgive me, I’m agnostic so I’m not sure under the catholic rules how this would sit. Just thinking out loud whether he’s genuinely god-fearing and repentant (he might feel compelled to confess) or if it’s just a PR (no pun intended) stunt.

As a long lapsed Catholic (things may have changed) a priest can forgive him all his sins, no matter how heinous, in confession.

Basically he has to confess all of his sins, say he's truly sorry and the priest forgives as long as some penance is done. Now I last went to confession at 16 and most of my sins (and most of most people's sins if I'm honest) could be cleared with a penance of a couple of Hail Marys.

However I suspect that serious sins such as murder might, or at least should, attract the much higher penance of confessing to the police and pleading guilty in court.

Then again though that's how it should be the Catholic ethos of confession is based on forgiveness and redemption so it could be a priest wouldn't impose that.

The other thing is that confession is sacrosanct. The priest cannot tell anyone what he's been told. So he doesn't have to stand up and admit his guilt. He can do it in private secure in the knowledge the priest can't tell.

My guess is PR wore the cross as a cynical attempt to appear remorseful. But I could be very wrong

 

[Plod]

I wonder if the arrest came at a time when he would presumably be feeling low in order to question him when he’s vulnerable (if that’s the right word to use in the case of someone who behaves as he does). A sort of ‘get him when he’s down’ tactic to push a guilty plea or hope he feels so dejected and downhearted that he admits to involvement? Perhaps his wife has spoken more freely with LE since his conviction?

Why release him? (I too assume this means ‘release into custody’ - it just can’t be phrased that way) Was this to put new questions to him, gauge his responses, go away with the answers and then come back and pick up where they left off? I hope this doesn’t mean they’ve hit a brick wall.

IMO they know it’s him. They knew from the beginning. But without admittance of guilt (and his lawyers pleas that he wants to return to Poland ASAP - I bet he does! - didn’t instil me with confidence that his story or plea might change in relation to LS), they’re back to square one. I hope not.

Religious question for anyone who might know ... Presuming he’s catholic as his mum stated, would one have to stand up and admit guilt for god to forgive? Or can you simply ask god for forgiveness privately without admitting what you’ve done in court or to the police? His wearing of the noticeable crucifix - which he had never done before - I wondered if this was an attempt to look like the religious family man in court (not really gonna wash with that charge list!) or if it was some sort of self protection from a higher power. Forgive me, I’m agnostic so I’m not sure under the catholic rules how this would sit. Just thinking out loud whether he’s genuinely god-fearing and repentant (he might feel compelled to confess) or if it’s just a PR (no pun intended) stunt.

I can’t answer the religious bit sorry! I agree with the rest of what you say - maybe arresting him when vulnerable and him dealing with the knowledge that he had 8 years in jail..., maybe telling him his options about what happens if he pleads guilty now to murder.

 

[Vermont24]

It may well be that LE simply didn't need to hold him long for questioning this time. To my mind, it sounds like something is very much imminent - particularly with the most recent statement mentioning the preparation of a file for the CPS.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

As a long lapsed Catholic (things may have changed) a priest can forgive him all his sins, no matter how heinous, in confession.

Basically he has to confess all of his sins, say he's truly sorry and the priest forgives as long as some penance is done. Now I last went to confession at 16 and most of my sins (and most of most people's sins if I'm honest) could be cleared with a penance of a couple of Hail Marys.

However I suspect that serious sins such as murder might, or at least should, attract the much higher penance of confessing to the police and pleading guilty in court.

Then again though that's how it should be the Catholic ethos of confession is based on forgiveness and redemption so it could be a priest wouldn't impose that.

The other thing is that confession is sacrosanct. The priest cannot tell anyone what he's been told. So he doesn't have to stand up and admit his guilt. He can do it in private secure in the knowledge the priest can't tell.

My guess is PR wore the cross as a cynical attempt to appear remorseful. But I could be very wrong

My Uncle was a Catholic Priest for almost 70 years. You are correct about everything. And if a person told my Uncle he murdered someone he would advise him to ask forgiveness of the Lord and definitely counsel him in going to the police as this would have been the right thing to do in the eyes of the Lord. I was very curious as a youngster and asked my Uncle all sorts of goofy questions. One being "has anyone ever confessed murder". LOL.

Edit by me to correct spelling.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

My Uncle was a Catholic Priest for almost 70 years. You are correct about everything. And if a person told my Uncle he murdered someone he would advise him to ask forgiveness of the Lord and definitely counsel him in going to the police as this would have been the right thing to do in they eyes of the Lord. I was very curious as a youngster and asked my Uncle all sorts of goofy questions. One being "has anyone ever confessed murder". LOL.

When you say "he would advise him" what if the confessor refused to take the advice to tell the police? Would a priest sprag on them anyway?

(and had anyone ever confessed to murder?!)

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Married Pawel Relowicz, 25, was held yesterday by detectives and quizzed for 24 hours.
He was previously arrested in February on suspicion of Libby's abduction.

Detective Superintendent Martin Smalley, said a file was being prepared for the Crown Prosecution Service.

He added: "The investigation is very much live and continuing.

"There are further enquiries still being carried out and there are constant investigative developments and procedures that are ongoing.

“The majority of the additional analysis stage is now complete, with a small number still pending final results.

"A file is being prepared for the Crown Prosecution Service as the investigation progresses.

Butcher arrested over Libby Squire murder after student vanished on night out

 

[Pinkizzy]

I can’t answer the religious bit sorry! I agree with the rest of what you say - maybe arresting him when vulnerable and him dealing with the knowledge that he had 8 years in jail..., maybe telling him his options about what happens if he pleads guilty now to murder.

He'll spend spend four years in jail surely

 

[Cherwell]

He'll spend spend four years in jail surely

That would be up to the parole board when the time comes.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

When you say "he would advise him" what if the confessor refused to take the advice to tell the police? Would a priest sprag on them anyway?

(and had anyone ever confessed to murder?!)

A priest would not sprag on the person. Priest cannot break "the Seal of Confession". If they do they could be removed from the priesthood.

My Uncle said no and hoped it never happened and then told me all about what he would do and why he would not be able to go to the police which would weigh very heavy on him. I think I was 12 or 13 when I asked but I still remember the conversation. Funny how things keep in your mind.

 

[Newthoughts]

I know the thought he might not have acted alone has sat with you throughout as a scenario. Do you still strongly believe that? Or is it just a vague possibility in your mind? I’m intrigued as to why ... for me everything points to dark, fear instilling, odd sex loner. Would he realistically be able to persuade anyone to cover for him? Would he be likely to meet a like minded deviant? I love reading your posts and really respect your thoughts on this case - because most are very much aligned with my own thinking. But for me this is definitely a solo act.

I don't think anyone would cover for something like that. If he didn't act alone it was from the start.

I'm slowly doubting it and moving to your opinion but:

I still think it's a possibility because on the surface this case looks so simple it should have been cleared up ages ago. Yet there are so many oddities. Too many things don't add up. It's the only thing I can think of.

Why was the first 10 minutes of spidercam edited out when it would have added just seconds to the footage and given the police extra scope to ask had anyone seen him. The only reasons I can think of are him taking something incriminating out if his car or evidence of him contacting someone else.

The comment to his sister about the address in sat nav. I did wonder was that an excuse (not a good one) for him texting her address. Making the heathcote screams more relevant.

He's very confident(eye contact with victims, leaving DNA) but doesn't seem bright (leaving DNA, keeping stuff in his car even when he knows she was in it and the police are everywhere). That combination of traits makes mistakes yet he manages to dispose of a body.

The river in the park is tidal and winding. The police started searching there almost immediately. Early on many people seemed to think she'd have been found if left in River in the park. The police have focused there so I'm guessing they don't have CCTV of him elsewhere. So could someone else have taken her elsewhere?

He entered Ventnor road via a broken window hidden away at the rear of the property. How did he know it was there?

Not a good basis for an opinion I'll grant you that

 

[LittleMystery]

I think the CPS report is pretty relevant.

Could it have been a procedural thing? Previously he was questioned on kidnapping? If they are bringing a murder charge with the CPS, could arresting him and questioning him for murder just have been crossing the t’s?

Also making him aware of what is happening and giving him a chance to confess.

 

[Audiohoney]

As a long lapsed Catholic (things may have changed) a priest can forgive him all his sins, no matter how heinous, in confession.

Basically he has to confess all of his sins, say he's truly sorry and the priest forgives as long as some penance is done. Now I last went to confession at 16 and most of my sins (and most of most people's sins if I'm honest) could be cleared with a penance of a couple of Hail Marys.

However I suspect that serious sins such as murder might, or at least should, attract the much higher penance of confessing to the police and pleading guilty in court.

Then again though that's how it should be the Catholic ethos of confession is based on forgiveness and redemption so it could be a priest wouldn't impose that.

The other thing is that confession is sacrosanct. The priest cannot tell anyone what he's been told. So he doesn't have to stand up and admit his guilt. He can do it in private secure in the knowledge the priest can't tell.

My guess is PR wore the cross as a cynical attempt to appear remorseful. But I could be very wrong

Really interesting - thanks so much for your insight. I did wonder whether the priest would be obliged to talk to police in a case as serious as murder. That’s some pretty heavy confessing for a priest to carry with him ... particularly if he can’t ever persuade the confessor to come clean his or her self. And even more so if that person evades a charge as a result of their silence.

But your thinking is perhaps that there is no real remorse or true religious belief behind wearing the cross anyway? More a bit of a gesture to have us believe he’s sorry. I’m perhaps inclined to agree.

 

[Newthoughts]

When you say "he would advise him" what if the confessor refused to take the advice to tell the police? Would a priest sprag on them anyway?

(and had anyone ever confessed to murder?!)

He shouldn't. The whole thing is based on what is said being between the priest, the penitent and their God

That most create huge ethical dilemmas which I guess can only be overcome by making penance a full guilty plea

 

[Audiohoney]

I don't think anyone would cover for something like that. If he didn't act alone it was from the start.

I'm slowly doubting it and moving to your opinion but:

I still think it's a possibility because on the surface this case looks so simple it should have been cleared up ages ago. Yet there are so many oddities. Too many things don't add up. It's the only thing I can think of.

Why was the first 10 minutes of spidercam edited out when it would have added just seconds to the footage and given the police extra scope to ask had anyone seen him. The only reasons I can think of are him taking something incriminating out if his car or evidence of him contacting someone else.

The comment to his sister about the address in sat nav. I did wonder was that an excuse (not a good one) for him texting her address. Making the heathcote screams more relevant.

He's very confident(eye contact with victims, leaving DNA) but doesn't seem bright (leaving DNA, keeping stuff in his car even when he knows she was in it and the police are everywhere). That combination of traits makes mistakes yet he manages to dispose of a body.

The river in the park is tidal and winding. The police started searching there almost immediately. Early on many people seemed to think she'd have been found if left in River in the park. The police have focused there so I'm guessing they don't have CCTV of him elsewhere. So could someone else have taken her elsewhere?

He entered Ventnor road via a broken window hidden away at the rear of the property. How did he know it was there?

Not a good basis for an opinion I'll grant you that

Hmmm yes, all very definite reasons to question whether an accomplice was involved, so I do see your thinking.

It’s perhaps also why my mind comes back to wondering whether LS & PR did initially know each other. I know this is going to feel like covering old ground (gym memberships etc) but you’re right, from the evidence we’re aware of something still doesn’t quite click with me.

If she volunteered to get in his car (I’m still unsure from Spidercam as to whether she’s ‘helped’ or pushed in) why would she? Drunk yes. Vulnerable yes. Cold yes. But she turned grey beard down for help. Would she get in a car with someone she’s never met - regardless of looks / age? I’m unsure. It would be very interesting to see more of that footage and of course what cctv was taken from the main road.

I’m also very surprised as to how he knew where to look for certain things. The broken window for example ... but also, chancing upon a student having sex in a downstairs bedroom. He must have been wandering around all over the place peering into homes, staking out locations, seeing who lived where. I can only think he was much more prolific than his 9 charges suggest and that he just didn’t get caught or reported for much more.

 

[Coach]

If he has been released pending investigation, does that mean they have not got enough to charge him?

 

[Oulton]

If he’s gone with no comment and a prepared statement then they’d be little point holding him in questioning for a long period of time. I think he’ll be charged very soon imo.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Released him back to his cell.

Libby Squire murder suspect 'released under investigation' as inquiries continue

 

[Miss_French]

Religious question for anyone who might know ... Presuming he’s catholic as his mum stated, would one have to stand up and admit guilt for god to forgive? Or can you simply ask god for forgiveness privately without admitting what you’ve done in court or to the police? His wearing of the noticeable crucifix - which he had never done before - I wondered if this was an attempt to look like the religious family man in court (not really gonna wash with that charge list!) or if it was some sort of self protection from a higher power. Forgive me, I’m agnostic so I’m not sure under the catholic rules how this would sit. Just thinking out loud whether he’s genuinely god-fearing and repentant (he might feel compelled to confess) or if it’s just a PR (no pun intended) stunt.

PR has committed a number of what are classed as 'mortal sins', which are offences serious enough to separate a person from God and for which they face eternal damnation. So far they include masturbation and serious lying, potentially endangerment of life and murder.

A person can immediately have the threat of eternal damnation removed if they confess their mortal sins (even murder) directly to God before they die, but it has to be with the intention of doing their upmost not to repeat the offence, and out of faith and true belief in God's love. If a person claims to be sorry because they are worried about going to hell or receiving some other punishment, they will still be under threat.

In both cases a person should then try to confess to a priest as well. This is because the priest will grant actual forgiveness (absolution is the proper term) on behalf of God and can prescribe actions to atone for the sins, such as prayers, donations to charity for minor theft, some kind of voluntary work. The priest cannot reveal the contents of the confession; an exception would be warning someone that they were in danger if the confession was a threat, but no names. The most they can do is try to persuade someone to give themselves up to the authorities for a crime and refuse absolution if they don't.

In short, as things stand, PR is going to have a hard time convincing God he's truly sorry and wasn't just trying to save his miserable skin.

 

[Cherwell]

Going back to the point about putting the address into satnav.
People seem to think that he should have known how to get to Wellesley Avenue because he had been there before. I would just say that it's quite plausible that he didn't pay attention to the names of roads. You can walk or drive around a network of residential streets without absorbing their names and their relation to each other. When I lived in a built-up area like that, if I walked to a shop or a pub through the back streets, I couldn't have told you the names of all the roads I crossed or walked down in the right order.