Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[Newthoughts]

Going back to the point about putting the address into satnav.
People seem to think that he should have known how to get to Wellesley Avenue because he had been there before. I would just say that it's quite plausible that he didn't pay attention to the names of roads. You can walk or drive around a network of residential streets without absorbing their names and their relation to each other. When I lived in a built-up area like that, if I walked to a shop or a pub through the back streets, I couldn't have told you the names of all the roads I crossed or walked down in the right order.

Agreed. It's also quite possible he'd never driven there. It's a short walk from where he'd parked to Wellesley which is minutes from where he lived. He'd have to turn out of there drive down Cottingham a little and turn into Beverly to get to her bench.

As I was told, if he'd wanted to help her home it would have been quicker to walk[/QUOTE]

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I know we can't link to social media, but just as a query relating to what someone has been saying...

1. when they issued the appeal for witnesses from Oak Rd, Humberside, police made a show of searching the car park there, again. But Pawel Relowicz couldn't have used this at 12.15 am on Feb 01, because the gates are locked at 7.30 pm each night.

How does that stack up?

2. Pawel Relowicz is the last known person to see Libby Squire, but could he physically have abducted and murdered her on his own? Witness statements from Heathcote St suggest that at least three people were involved in the abduction. Two weapon items were found nearby.

Again, these items were seemingly dismissed as being related. Proof?

 

[DiploRed]

I know we can't link to social media, but just as a query relating to what someone has been saying...

1. when they issued the appeal for witnesses from Oak Rd, Humberside, police made a show of searching the car park there, again. But Pawel Relowicz couldn't have used this at 12.15 am on Feb 01, because the gates are locked at 7.30 pm each night.

How does that stack up?

2. Pawel Relowicz is the last known person to see Libby Squire, but could he physically have abducted and murdered her on his own? Witness statements from Heathcote St suggest that at least three people were involved in the abduction. Two weapon items were found nearby.

Again, these items were seemingly dismissed as being related. Proof?

What witness statements are you talking about?

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Queries of my own.

Was that car in the spidercam ever confirmed to be his? There seemed disagreement as to type of vehicle for a long time.

The cyclist in the spidercam vid and the CCTV of the cyclist near the park. Ever a connection ruled in or out between the two?

 

[Cherwell]

Witness statements from Heathcote St suggest that at least three people were involved in the abduction. Two weapon items were found nearby.
Again, these items were seemingly dismissed as being related. Proof?

Does "weapon items" refer to the tools that were found in a flower bed/bushes?

If the police investigated the Heathcote Street disturbance and found it to be unconnected, it would be unlikely to have been made public. We would just have heard no more about it.

The cyclist in the spidercam vid and the CCTV of the cyclist near the park. Ever a connection ruled in or out between the two?

Again, if either of the cyclists was identified or contacted the police as a witness, it wouldn't be made public.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

What witness statements are you talking about?

Just questioning, as I didn't know.

 

[Newthoughts]

Hmmm yes, all very definite reasons to question whether an accomplice was involved, so I do see your thinking.

It’s perhaps also why my mind comes back to wondering whether LS & PR did initially know each other. I know this is going to feel like covering old ground (gym memberships etc) but you’re right, from the evidence we’re aware of something still doesn’t quite click with me.

If she volunteered to get in his car (I’m still unsure from Spidercam as to whether she’s ‘helped’ or pushed in) why would she? Drunk yes. Vulnerable yes. Cold yes. But she turned grey beard down for help. Would she get in a car with someone she’s never met - regardless of looks / age? I’m unsure. It would be very interesting to see more of that footage and of course what cctv was taken from the main road.

I’m also very surprised as to how he knew where to look for certain things. The broken window for example ... but also, chancing upon a student having sex in a downstairs bedroom. He must have been wandering around all over the place peering into homes, staking out locations, seeing who lived where. I can only think he was much more prolific than his 9 charges suggest and that he just didn’t get caught or reported for much more.

I struggle with her knowing him simply because they inhabit such different worlds. Would be very different people especially given what we've heard about him.

Students are a very insular bunch. Possibly vaguely recognized from gym (makes me wonder what he could have done there).

If she got in willingly it could be because I think we all have a fixed template of what a dangerous person looks like and sadly I think that would look more like grey beard than PR.

I think he was young looking, baby faced and, we're told, softly spoken.

She was drunk, cold and vulnerable. Maybe she was neither willing nor dragged but coerced before she had time to react and think? Sort of come on I'll get you home and then taking charge before she could work out what was going on

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

@Cherwell yes, those. They would have been on the route, would they not, from turning the car round from Haworth?

 

[Kelumbo]

The girl in the spidercam footage seemed to holdback as he opened the door then he seemed to not force but push her into the car quicker than what she was going

 

[Plod]

@Cherwell yes, those. They would have been on the route, would they not, from turning the car round from Haworth?

Are you talking about the screwdriver and lip gloss or something totally different?

 

[Newthoughts]

Queries of my own.

Was that car in the spidercam ever confirmed to be his? There seemed disagreement as to type of vehicle for a long time.

The cyclist in the spidercam vid and the CCTV of the cyclist near the park. Ever a connection ruled in or out between the two?

I've thought about the cyclists a lot as well. Does anyone know if the Croda witnesses came forward.

Two cyclists is only similarity between the two events.

No definite connection ruled either way to my knowledge

 

[Cherwell]

(extracts)

Possibly vaguely recognized from gym (makes me wonder what he could have done there).

I think he was young looking, baby faced and, we're told, softly spoken.

On the other hand he doesn't look much like those early photos, which are obviously a few years old. He doesn't look like a regular gym user now, and he has lost his youthful baby-faced looks. That shows even in his wedding photos.

 

[Newthoughts]

I know we can't link to social media, but just as a query relating to what someone has been saying...

1. when they issued the appeal for witnesses from Oak Rd, Humberside, police made a show of searching the car park there, again. But Pawel Relowicz couldn't have used this at 12.15 am on Feb 01, because the gates are locked at 7.30 pm each night.

How does that stack up?

2. Pawel Relowicz is the last known person to see Libby Squire, but could he physically have abducted and murdered her on his own? Witness statements from Heathcote St suggest that at least three people were involved in the abduction. Two weapon items were found nearby.

Again, these items were seemingly dismissed as being related. Proof?

1) could he have got into that car park on foot? Or thrown something into it?

2) I think he'd be more than physically capable alone. Stocky, gym user, martial arts.

 

[Newthoughts]

(extracts)
On the other hand he doesn't look much like those early photos, which are obviously a few years old. He doesn't look like a regular gym user now, and he has lost his youthful baby-faced looks. That shows even in his wedding photos.

True. But still not particularly threatening looking with his trousers on.

 

[Cherwell]

Is there any evidence he still goes to a gym? Or has it just been inferred from old photos?

 

[Newthoughts]

Is there any evidence he still goes to a gym? Or has it just been inferred from old photos?

Suggests it here
https://www-hulldailymail-co-uk.cdn...-news/pawel-relowicz-hull-family-life-3219210

 

[gregjrichards]

I’m sorry for posting the link to the Sun article that named him. I just really hope they have a strong case for his alleged involvement in Libby’s murder and there is no reasonable doubt he did it for the jury. I really hope he is off the streets for a long time he appears to be a very dangerous young man and could still be one if he is out of prison in his 40s.

 

[Plod]

Queries of my own.

Was that car in the spidercam ever confirmed to be his? There seemed disagreement as to type of vehicle for a long time.

The cyclist in the spidercam vid and the CCTV of the cyclist near the park. Ever a connection ruled in or out between the two?

If you look at the spider cam and images of him, one of which taken whilst out committing one of the other offences, very obvious that it’s the same person. Plus I think that the car was identified early on on these threads by someone who knew quite a bit about cars.

 

[Sally4x]

There has been speculation on here that PR might have seemed a better option for Libby to get into a car with than grey beard because he was younger and they may have discussed him taking her home. One question that keeps coming up for me is does PR actually speak English? I know he had an interpreter at each court appearance. I can’t find any account of him having a conversation with anyone so am unsure how his English actually is? Maybe because he had been in the country for 7 years he had the basics. I don’t know, just thinking,

 

[Mommysleuth11]

The girl in the spidercam footage seemed to holdback as he opened the door then he seemed to not force but push her into the car quicker than what she was going

Exactly this i have long seen a tussle in the area of the rear car doors, with someone swaying/levering. Its possible she initially agreed then changed her mind at the last second.