Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

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I think she has given what could be interpreted as conflicting statements on this. On the "Murder in My Family" podcast for which she and her husband were interviewed, she said something to the effect that even the family had not been told the details of what had happened to the girls.

It has been said a few times in these threads over the past two years, but: even if there is no evidence of the physical act of rape, that does NOT mean that the killer did not have a sexual motivation. There are sexual sadists who derive satisfaction from the act of strangling, for example. That's still a sexually based assault in my book even if penetration or DNA deposition (let us say) did not occur. I'm not speaking on legal definitions here but rather on criminal motivations.

In my opinion, given the statistics on these types of crimes against young girls and the fact that police immediately went after known sexual offenders in their investigation, the strongest possibility is that this was a sexually-motivated offense against one or both girls.
I have to agree with you. They did go after know deviants right away. I believe it was stated somewhere in an article. It would seem just from the look of the crime scene and the girls that at the least LE thought it was a possible motive.
 
Likewise, Jax49.

Here's a double murder, committed, unfortunately, by someone "off the grid".

And just look how long it took to be solved.

I do hope there is some DNA identified as BG's.
Realistically, this crime could take years and years to solve.

I do hope LE is comparing it with DNA gotten in surrounding states........

How a DNA database helped solve a horrific double murder

MOO.
Hmm, that case reminds me quite a bit of the 'maxa road' murders......
 
Every serial killer starts somewhere. It is very possible he could do a double and get away, for a time. I hope he isn’t a budding serial killer but it sure looks like he could become one if he isn’t already. Especially with the police talking about his ‘power’ motive. Since getting interested in true crime I have learned there are very sick people in the world that get away. Hopefully he is caught and executed without a long appeal process. Praying on our children should be a fast track to the needle

Yup. BTK started with a quadruple, was sloppy as hell, and still got away with it.

He took a tremendous risk, and encountered a situation that put him in great jeopardy.

I definitely think this guy is a budding serial killer, and will remain dangerous until he is caught.

At this point, I think this case will be solved when he attempts or is successful in committing another violent crime.
 
Yup. BTK started with a quadruple, was sloppy as hell, and still got away with it.

He took a tremendous risk, and encountered a situation that put him in great jeopardy.

I definitely think this guy is a budding serial killer, and will remain dangerous until he is caught.

At this point, I think this case will be solved when he attempts or is successful in committing another violent crime.

I really hope not..
 
Every serial killer starts somewhere. It is very possible he could do a double and get away, for a time. I hope he isn’t a budding serial killer but it sure looks like he could become one if he isn’t already. Especially with the police talking about his ‘power’ motive. Since getting interested in true crime I have learned there are very sick people in the world that get away. Hopefully he is caught and executed without a long appeal process. Praying on our children should be a fast track to the needle
Just curious. If a drug king pin knocks off several people or has someone else kill them to exact revenge for snitching, stealing or whatever, should we call him a serial killer?
 
That would be a bomb shell, but I don't think so. I've been here since the beginning and never heard that. Good luck with your search...

moo
Still searching and have only so far found where Libby’s mother and Becky stated to people close to them that they were not raped. I can’t post the links though. What I remember reading was a q&a between Becky and someone else. That was a long time ago. I will keep searching.
 
Just curious. If a drug king pin knocks off several people or has someone else kill them to exact revenge for snitching, stealing or whatever, should we call him a serial killer?
No. That would be mass murder. In the beginning serial killers were motivated by sexual arousal, but I have heard killers with multiple victims called serial killers. Aileen Wournos for example is known as a serial killer but she didn't murder for sexual arousal. I don't know if that was sloppy reporting or if the definition now includes non sexual murders as well. To complicate I have heard mass murderers called that for multiple lives taken at the same time. This is my opinion. I'm sure someone more in tune with the proper definitions can clarify and correct this information. Bottom line is they are sick scary individuals.
 
This case will be solved when it wants to be solved.

In the end the name of the killer won’t even appear in one of the thousands of files, one hundred boxes of files, or have his name uttered in any of the meetings held by the investigators.

It’s difficult to say this but all of the hard work might be for naught.

I’ll give you an example. Back in the 1970’s a bank branch was broken into in the middle of the night. The smashing of the glass set off the alarm and the first officer on the scene saw three shadowy figures running down the street into a residential area. In those days the money was kept in the teller drawers all night so over $20,000 was stolen.
The case was assigned to a respected detective whose desk happened to be right next to mine. Every day I watched him hoping to learn case solving detectives. He talked on the phone, called other victims, disappeared for hours, and yet there were no notes attached to the bank case. I was convinced that he had notes and hot leads stored somewhere where other detectives couldn’t see them.

Six weeks later he said to me “want to take a ride”? He threw me the keys to his detective car and said “meet me out back”. He gave me directions to a place that I immediately realized was the neighborhood I grew up in.
He told me to turn down the street by the bank, go four blocks, and turn left and park. We walked up the steps of an unremarkable house, knocked on the door, and a girl about 18-19 answered. We showed our badges and she screamed “ Oh God how did you know”? We followed her into a bedroom and there was $17,000 spread out on the bed.

It turned out that she and two boys had done the burglary and had immediately taken off for West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and all over again never spending the night in the same motel twice. They were convinced that the police were hot on their trail when in fact nothing was being done. Nothing at all.

I have a feeling that this case will turn out this way.
So how did the detective figure out where they were?
 
If no SA occurred, but the girls were left undressed, this could also be interpreted as an indication for killer’s need for “power”, as may a number of other factors regarding how he “left them.”
MOO
If BG engaged the girls at the south end of the bridge, it really could have been from anywhere around there. LE seems to think Libby "had presence of mind" to start videoing him, so I take that as they think she found him threatening on some level. The girls may have gone down to the road, or under the bridge to avoid him. Maybe she turned off her video at that point, since it sounds like she turned on the recorder at a later point. JMO

If a SA occurred, then from wherever he engaged them (and she turned on the recorder), he really could have led them to a number of secluded spots (like the one you mentioned) down the hill from that road, and afterward led them across the creek to where he killed them.

It goes against what I've always felt about BG not spending much time with them. Carter did say it was about "power" for the killer, though. IMO, that does hint at SA (although I pray not).

I still don't understand the lack of police tape. Maybe there was a h*ll of a lot more than we know about? Maybe media doesn't even know about other locations police looked at?

Maybe it's even possible he led them from the north end of the bridge and down, then exited somewhere along the creek. Riley did say the area was so contaminated by searchers that dog's weren't used. But weren't most the searches done on the opposite side of the creek from where they were found?

Sorry, I'm talking in rounds, I know. Just trying to put pieces together still...
 
Yup. BTK started with a quadruple, was sloppy as hell, and still got away with it.

He took a tremendous risk, and encountered a situation that put him in great jeopardy.

I definitely think this guy is a budding serial killer, and will remain dangerous until he is caught.

At this point, I think this case will be solved when he attempts or is successful in committing another violent crime.
Do you think that's why they haven't caught him, because these were his first time killing? Do you think that's because of youth, his age? I'm having a hard time trying to process how someone would choose broad daylight on a popular hiking trail for his first venture into killing. That in itself means he's either very very organized or just totally disorganized and spur of the moment. Both send chills up the spine trying to figure out what kind of person this killer presents to world. One is total stealth while the other would be more noticeable. Both types could be quite intelligent. Any thoughts?
 
Do you think that's why they haven't caught him, because these were his first time killing? Do you think that's because of youth, his age? I'm having a hard time trying to process how someone would choose broad daylight on a popular hiking trail for his first venture into killing. That in itself means he's either very very organized or just totally disorganized and spur of the moment. Both send chills up the spine trying to figure out what kind of person this killer presents to world. One is total stealth while the other would be more noticeable. Both types could be quite intelligent. Any thoughts?

I think he’s still out there because he got lucky that day.

That location was relatively isolated, but he did apparently expose himself to being spotted by witnesses.

It was an inherently risky crime.

He was hunting for a victim, and came upon two.

So he was organized in the sense that he was probably planning to attack someone, and came equipped to do so.

We’ve seen this sort of thing a million times. A guy spots a random woman, and decides that he’s going to attack and murder her.

In many cases this is a first time thing.

This case just differs a bit because he killed two victims. But I do think this guy shares the same traits as those other perpetrators.

I think he’s young, because I’d otherwise expect a guy like this to have a documented criminal history. If he has one, he was a juvenile and it’s sealed or expunged.

People who commit crimes like this are usually of average intelligence. This crime didn’t require anything more than that, and the risks he took speak to that as well.

I’d be stunned if he had a white collar job, or was a pillar of the community. People like that commit murder, but rarely like this.
 
If LE want us to believe BG is a younger guy, why are they investigating into Paul Etter?

Because it is their duty and obligation to look into every possible perpetrator.

Even if they thought there was no chance PE could be the Delphi killer, they wouldn’t be doing their jobs if they didn’t look into him.
 
If LE want us to believe BG is a younger guy, why are they investigating into Paul Etter?

I thought about that too and then when you add all the sketch confusion....new sketch is THE guy....but well actually, it could be a mix of this frat boy and an overweight facial haired 50 yr old.....I am now feeling depressed like LE really doesn't know. They think more than likely it's this young guy, but maybe can't 100% rule out whatever made them go with the first sketch. Which means there are no great witnesses, they are not hot the trail of somebody, not a whole lot of anything. Ugh. Hope I am wrong. Because that PC kind of felt like they threw everything they had at it.

As a side note, I listened to a podcast on my iPhone called Best Case/Worst Case about the murders and it also depresses me. It seems like no way could anybody who remotely looks the new sketch could go under the radar now. If this guy was or is in Delphi, wouldn't he have been found by now? It's been 4 months since the PC.

I wonder if different strategies should be used to reach his age group. Younger people are not watching PC's at 2 pm on a Monday. I wish the sketch and footage would go viral on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter....I feel like everyone I know has seen certain social media videos, but I have literally ONE friend that knows about Delphi.
 
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I think he’s still out there because he got lucky that day.

That location was relatively isolated, but he did apparently expose himself to being spotted by witnesses.

It was an inherently risky crime.

He was hunting for a victim, and came upon two.

So he was organized in the sense that he was probably planning to attack someone, and came equipped to do so.

We’ve seen this sort of thing a million times. A guy spots a random woman, and decides that he’s going to attack and murder her.

In many cases this is a first time thing.

This case just differs a bit because he killed two victims. But I do think this guy shares the same traits as those other perpetrators.

I think he’s young, because I’d otherwise expect a guy like this to have a documented criminal history. If he has one, he was a juvenile and it’s sealed or expunged.

People who commit crimes like this are usually of average intelligence. This crime didn’t require anything more than that, and the risks he took speak to that as well.

I’d be stunned if he had a white collar job, or was a pillar of the community. People like that commit murder, but rarely like this.
I think if these were his first killings, just the fact that he chose to approach and abduct two speaks of high self confidence of getting "it" done, rather than a fly by the seat of your pants-lets give this a try attitude of someone more socially inept.

The newer snippet of audio "Guys", the way it's said makes me feel like he's controlled/directed kids before. If he's on the younger side, maybe a camp or church counseler or a young man used to being a leader in some way. If he's older, into his 30's, possibly a shift manager somewhere teens work or in a business where teamwork is stressed, possibly construction, contractor. I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
BBM:
rsbm

I am now feeling depressed like LE really doesn't know. They think more than likely it's this young guy, but maybe can't 100% rule out whatever made them go with the first sketch. Which means there are no great witnesses, they are not hot the trail of somebody, not a whole lot of anything. Ugh. Hope I am wrong. Because that PC kind of felt like they threw everything they had at it.

Remember when the April PC happened and I did not share everyone’s optimism about the PC and I said if we were still here in 6 months I’d tell you what I reaaaallly think? Well that’s what I really think (BBM, moo). The last PC made me very uncomfortable in many ways, for many reasons.

Now with that being said, I’ve been feeling more hopeful lately (I don’t know why).

For all we know as soon as I post this we could have an arrest. Today, tomorrow...

I’ve always gotten the vibe that this investigation is like one big poker game.

Another thing, I just can’t get that quote out of my head, “If you knew what we knew...”. More and more I think this was worse than what we can imagine, if that’s even possible. I’ve been catching up in Cheryl’s and Andy’s case (29 years now without an arrest, see my signature for reference (turn your phone sideways if you can’t see it)) and I get a similar sinister evil vibe of a SK. In their case the killer left some “things” (a $20 bill and one of the victim’s golf club and golf balls from his trunk pointing to the body) at the crime scene.

Also, I saw a Forensic Files the other day (“Waste Mis-Management, S13 Ep46). As I’ve stated numerous times I’ve always thought that was rope coming out the top of BG’s jacket and have posted some visual examples. After seeing the FF episode, I’m now thinking it also looks similar to electrical cord like the image from kill kit at 8:20:03 in the above FF episode. Moo.

I’m afraid it may take another crime(s) to catch this guy.
 
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I think if these were his first killings, just the fact that he chose to approach and abduct two speaks of high self confidence of getting "it" done, rather than a fly by the seat of your pants-lets give this a try attitude of someone more socially inept.

The newer snippet of audio "Guys", the way it's said makes me feel like he's controlled/directed kids before. If he's on the younger side, maybe a camp or church counseler or a young man used to being a leader in some way. If he's older, into his 30's, possibly a shift manager somewhere teens work or in a business where teamwork is stressed, possibly construction, contractor. I don't know, just throwing out ideas. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Yes for sure! There is such a confidence in the way he says "guys" and even "down the hill." So un pressured and matter of fact without any nerves or anxiety detected. I would think it would be more of a frenzied "get down the hill!", but instead he sounds like someone directing people at a carnival.
 
We know SKs have cooling off periods, sometimes for many years.

I wonder how long this guy will go, or how long he “went” (IF he is in fact a SK which I think he is, moo).

Again, maybe there are other cases out there, DV, assaults, murders, UIDs, who knows what else, that have happened SINCE Delphi. Perhaps in another state.
 
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