Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

[Charlot123]

Question: If siblings are very similar in their optics, would their DNA show more similarity than in case, when the siblings look very different?
Charlot123?

Not at all. Kids inherit 50% of DNA from each parent. So between full siblings, there is about 50% of shared DNA, but what parts of DNA they got from each parent are shared, is random.

Similar looks? It would merely mean that on parts of the chromosomes defining the looks, they share the same parts of the DNA. But as to character traits, for example, they might be very different, being inherited from different parents.

ETA: by “optics” you mean “looks”, not “view of the world”, right? I have seen this word being used in so many different ways, including “prognosis” or “view of the situation” ))).

 

[Blue Amethyst]

It seems through the past years that we all have had so many suspects with the older looking BG. Now we have more suspects for the YBG. I think to myself how can one place like Delphi have so many that are capable of doing something like this.

You check out a suspects friends and wonder what all the connections are. How does this spider web of friends weave them all together. Drugs?

So many of the young people seem to go from one relationship to another and one job to another. Maybe all places are like that now. I don’t know.

In the end it might even be someone under the radar that wasn’t on anyone's list. MOO

 

[susiQ]

What perplexes me, is that in following 3 separate cases here on WS from the Delphi/Flora and surrounding area, and one which has yet to be announced, which all unearth a plethora of "connectedness" (if that's even a word) that rivals anything I have ever come across. I can only hope that the most recent developments on two fronts will soon result in two additional arrests. JMO

 

[Lmustang89]

I was just thinking of the religious connection and I though I read that Libby's church did them there too and I found that odd in this day and age ....frankly it creeped me out after the PC , it would connect religion with Deer Creek

Looked this one up because I remember the police referenced the following:
Why 'The Shack' 2017 film was mentioned in reference to unsolved Delphi murders
"
Carter addressed the person responsible for the unsolved Delphi murders in the context of "The Shack," a religious-themed story adapted from a 2007 novel by William Paul Young.

“I recently watched a movie called 'The Shack.' There’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity," Carter said. "To the murderer, I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left (German and Williams) in that woods is not what they’re experiencing today."

 

[Eagle12]

What perplexes me, is that in following 3 separate cases here on WS from the Delphi/Flora and surrounding area, and one which has yet to be announced, which all unearth a plethora of "connectedness" (if that's even a word) that rivals anything I have ever come across. I can only hope that the most recent developments on two fronts will soon result in two additional arrests. JMO

Curious what the cases are that you are following! Mind sharing?

 

[soap mama]

Looked this one up because I remember the police referenced the following:
Why 'The Shack' 2017 film was mentioned in reference to unsolved Delphi murders
"
Carter addressed the person responsible for the unsolved Delphi murders in the context of "The Shack," a religious-themed story adapted from a 2007 novel by William Paul Young.

“I recently watched a movie called 'The Shack.' There’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity," Carter said. "To the murderer, I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left (German and Williams) in that woods is not what they’re experiencing today."

I’ve always thought the mention of The Shack was very intentional, but I can’t figure out why.

 

[Theforeigner]

Bringing forward the link to that thread:

IN, Mark J Sandifur, charged with child molesting, Flora, 8/28/19



From the above link:

“As has become customary with suspects in crimes against children in Carroll County, Sandifur's name will be passed along to Indiana State Police to determine if he's suspected of any other possible crimes in the Lafayette Post's district, Thomas and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said.”

Mark J Sandifur has family living in Delphi.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Not at all. Kids inherit 50% of DNA from each parent. So between full siblings, there is about 50% of shared DNA, but what parts of DNA they got from each parent are shared, is random.

Similar looks? It would merely mean that on parts of the chromosomes defining the looks, they share the same parts of the DNA. But as to character traits, for example, they might be very different, being inherited from different parents.

ETA: by “optics” you mean “looks”, not “view of the world”, right? I have seen this word being used in so many different ways, including “prognosis” or “view of the situation” ))).

Thank you!
And: yes, I meant "looks".

 

[raja]

After looking back at thread 86 there was some interesting questions about a conversation between the girls and 2 boys. It is somewhere around page 39. Does anyone remember anything about a convo between the girls and 2 boys?

 

[Charlot123]

Looked this one up because I remember the police referenced the following:
Why 'The Shack' 2017 film was mentioned in reference to unsolved Delphi murders
"
Carter addressed the person responsible for the unsolved Delphi murders in the context of "The Shack," a religious-themed story adapted from a 2007 novel by William Paul Young.

“I recently watched a movie called 'The Shack.' There’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity," Carter said. "To the murderer, I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left (German and Williams) in that woods is not what they’re experiencing today."

Maybe it was all simple, the meaning of Carter’s words? MOO - You are doomed unless you repent and admit to the killings. Then you have the chance to enter the place where the girls are, in the afterlife.
Otherwise your immortal soul ends up somewhere else.

However, I wonder if the perpetrator felt a sinner, way before the killings. He probably has some religious delusions, but at the same time, protests against something in religion. Something that makes him pretend all the time?

Anyhow, we know that Carter’s arrow at the PC totally missed the target. So either the BG is not who Carter thinks he is, or he lost his religion a long time ago, and just goes through the motions.

ETA: I can’t imagine Carter discussing “the Shack” with GK. So it rules that person out as Carter’s POI. Carter’s POI is someone who at least goes to church and outwardly behaves in a pious way.

 

[CSIDreamer]

What perplexes me, is that in following 3 separate cases here on WS from the Delphi/Flora and surrounding area, and one which has yet to be announced, which all unearth a plethora of "connectedness" (if that's even a word) that rivals anything I have ever come across. I can only hope that the most recent developments on two fronts will soon result in two additional arrests. JMO

I can think of 3 off the top of my head. You're saying we're missing one?

 

[insearchoflight]

Curious what the cases are that you are following! Mind sharing?

I think we are all wondering if these three are connected:

1. Abby & Libby’s deaths
2. Flora fire deaths
3. Sandifur child molestation charges

 

[Torch Carrier]

I think we are all wondering if these three are

DBM

 

[moonlessnight]

Unfortunately I don't think we can talk about that bc it is sleuthing people (minors) who are not POIs. YET. But I do think that info may become very relevant.

After looking back at thread 86 there was some interesting questions about a conversation between the girls and 2 boys. It is somewhere around page 39. Does anyone remember anything about a convo between the girls and 2 boys?

 

[Jeeps22]

I don't think she was streaming, someone said there was no connection on the bridge. I don't know what else was on that video.

We have two groups here, one obviously thinks it was related to someone using drugs, the other, that it was a quiet loner.




Let us start again with not knowing. Maybe we should start anew, not from the standpoint of the motive, but from the standpoint of opportunity. Who could do it? With two scenarios, a) he was chasing them. And b) it was random.

Make one thread, pull it all into it.

Like, he is out on Monday, he moves fast, he clearly knows the area, he has good spatial orientation, he probably walks fast or runs yet the gait is odd, he can walk on that bridge fast, no fear, he was done with it in a short time, he can change clothes and appearance fast, he can kill fast, too, he is mentally organized. He can make two girls get down the hill fast - fear? - a gun, probably?

He has time on his side, and he should not! It is as if he either knows who and how is going to pick them up (has access to their SM? Very likely), or he had the chance to check both sides of the bridge. He knows that no one is waiting them on either side now. He has to know this.

Whatever he left with his DNA, if anything, it was not much. Either he knows that there are no matches in Gedmatch, and won’t be, or he knows how not to leave workable DNA. Who would have this knowledge?

He is not in the CODIS...

And then there is the issue of early communication with the police that swayed them the wrong way. What is this about, and how could he persuade them? Too believable as a witness? Own good alibi? Was seen elsewhere?

Let us make a separate discussion, of opportunity. From what I have posted, it is obvious to me that he is not a local druggie. That he has a high IQ and is probably “a worrier”, they do perform better under stress. That he probably is a college grad or had good military training and has some minimal knowledge of the criminology. That he probably is very good at Googling.

I think we should pull it all together and then think what is most plausible, that someone helped, that he was alone, etc.

From my own post it seems to me that he has access to their SM. Because even if he knew them, saw them being dropped off, how did he know that dad would not pick them up in 15 minutes? And dads have guns these days.

Longtime lurker here, I think this is my first post. I spend quite a bit of time researching this case over at Reddit, along with the Missy Bevers case out in Texas. I concur with just about everything I see in this post.And I am inclined to add that if we stick to the theory of Occam's Razor we may just figure things out once and for all.

I don't believe BG wore a mask, I don't believe that he's related in any way to any other unsolved murders, although I do believe the odds that he may have/already has re-offended are high. Although I've spent some time at Reddit reading about the case, there is one piece of the puzzle that I am not clear on and maybe someone can help me. Did Abby and Libby have brothers that were high school age at the time of the crimes? And did they have friends in their age group who spent time at the family homes? I ask because this whole time that I've been thinking about the case I keep getting the feeling that it's someone very close to the families. Close enough to have had access to info re the girls' movements that day. One could argue that if BG was a close family friend he would be identified via the cell phone recordings. Not necessarily. Back in the 70's when BTK killed 4 members of the Otero family, Shirley Vian, and Nancy Fox, local news outlets played a tape of BTK's voice over and over and over. No one recognized him and he was a person who held job positions dealing with the public. His own family didn't even recognize hime. So, so much for that.

I think there is a very simple, right in front of our faces answer to this mystery. " Hiding in plain sight " indeed. I'd be very curious to know who amongst the girls family and friends knew they would be at the bridge that day. The killer most certainly had to know, because IMO this was a targeted crime. Nothing was happenstance.

Thanks for listening. I love this site - so many interesting and brilliant minds at work here!

 

[Torch Carrier]

Welcome Jeeps!!!

I have one particular POI from the beginning and have always wondered whether one of the girls had been a victim of a sexual predator/abuser because I know this is, sadly, not uncommon that girls that age are taken advantage of.

Another POI causes me to keep up with the Nicole Bowen thread.

I don't know WHAT to think yet about the pizza king.

 

[Falling Down]

My gut feeling is, not him, but my gut feeling was wrong many times. )))

About meth. It is economy. When jobs leave the area, hopelessness and loss of self-esteem walk in, and next, come booze and drugs.

Homemade meth is something else, though. I read about the drug, it has a long history. Today, I was told, enthusiasts that belong in Berkeley chemical department but prefer to make $$ the old way, take a mesh, spray it with RAID, and the stuff flowing down serves as the material for meth.

Have you ever sprayed RAID on a cockroach? Homebred meth totally destroys the nervous system.

They're literally spraying spice down with Raid and aho knows what, too, aeound here.

 

[Falling Down]

Longtime lurker here, I think this is my first post. I spend quite a bit of time researching this case over at Reddit, along with the Missy Bevers case out in Texas. I concur with just about everything I see in this post.And I am inclined to add that if we stick to the theory of Occam's Razor we may just figure things out once and for all.

I don't believe BG wore a mask, I don't believe that he's related in any way to any other unsolved murders, although I do believe the odds that he may have/already has re-offended are high. Although I've spent some time at Reddit reading about the case, there is one piece of the puzzle that I am not clear on and maybe someone can help me. Did Abby and Libby have brothers that were high school age at the time of the crimes? And did they have friends in their age group who spent time at the family homes? I ask because this whole time that I've been thinking about the case I keep getting the feeling that it's someone very close to the families. Close enough to have had access to info re the girls' movements that day. One could argue that if BG was a close family friend he would be identified via the cell phone recordings. Not necessarily. Back in the 70's when BTK killed 4 members of the Otero family, Shirley Vian, and Nancy Fox, local news outlets played a tape of BTK's voice over and over and over. No one recognized him and he was a person who held job positions dealing with the public. His own family didn't even recognize hime. So, so much for that.

I think there is a very simple, right in front of our faces answer to this mystery. " Hiding in plain sight " indeed. I'd be very curious to know who amongst the girls family and friends knew they would be at the bridge that day. The killer most certainly had to know, because IMO this was a targeted crime. Nothing was happenstance.

Thanks for listening. I love this site - so many interesting and brilliant minds at work here!

I've thought the since early on, someone knew they were going to he there, and when.

 

[BradB]

It seems through the past years that we all have had so many suspects with the older looking BG. Now we have more suspects for the YBG. I think to myself how can one place like Delphi have so many that are capable of doing something like this.

You check out a suspects friends and wonder what all the connections are. How does this spider web of friends weave them all together. Drugs?

So many of the young people seem to go from one relationship to another and one job to another. Maybe all places are like that now. I don’t know.

In the end it might even be someone under the radar that wasn’t on anyone's list. MOO

Sometimes the truth is if this tragedy didnt happen nobody would really care about this town or what goes on other than the people living there or having some connection there. You have people just trying to make it. Whether its paycheck to paycheck at a regular job or simply involved in shady activities.

I also think today people arent concerned as much about other people as they are themselves and own which makes it even more difficult to crack.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Longtime lurker here, I think this is my first post. I spend quite a bit of time researching this case over at Reddit, along with the Missy Bevers case out in Texas. I concur with just about everything I see in this post.And I am inclined to add that if we stick to the theory of Occam's Razor we may just figure things out once and for all.

I don't believe BG wore a mask, I don't believe that he's related in any way to any other unsolved murders, although I do believe the odds that he may have/already has re-offended are high. Although I've spent some time at Reddit reading about the case, there is one piece of the puzzle that I am not clear on and maybe someone can help me. Did Abby and Libby have brothers that were high school age at the time of the crimes? And did they have friends in their age group who spent time at the family homes? I ask because this whole time that I've been thinking about the case I keep getting the feeling that it's someone very close to the families. Close enough to have had access to info re the girls' movements that day. One could argue that if BG was a close family friend he would be identified via the cell phone recordings. Not necessarily. Back in the 70's when BTK killed 4 members of the Otero family, Shirley Vian, and Nancy Fox, local news outlets played a tape of BTK's voice over and over and over. No one recognized him and he was a person who held job positions dealing with the public. His own family didn't even recognize hime. So, so much for that.

I think there is a very simple, right in front of our faces answer to this mystery. " Hiding in plain sight " indeed. I'd be very curious to know who amongst the girls family and friends knew they would be at the bridge that day. The killer most certainly had to know, because IMO this was a targeted crime. Nothing was happenstance.

Thanks for listening. I love this site - so many interesting and brilliant minds at work here!

bbm
Nothing to speak about further within this thread, I know, but the Missy Bevers perp in his Swat gear, duck footed with a problem to one of his legs (probably), has eyes, which seem to be very similar to NBG's eyes, IMO. And these eyes aren't the eyes of any desired man in his ending twenties/beginning thirties, IMO, but a little bit more special. Since I have noticed that, I'm thinking about a perp's method, to dress with a disguise like "police officer" or "average man" like farmer/truck driver/what else. If NBG will murder once more (hopefully not), maybe, he will be dressed with another "uniform".