Silver Alert CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #20

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I have read nothing confirmed that FD was actually involved in the slaughter of animals. Other posters have said that skins are delivered to the tanning company for processing. I used to live in a town that was built on tanning/manufacture of a certain leather product. It's a dying industry there now, but I was never aware that they ever had anything to do with the slaughter of an animal. Could have been different in Greece. Working in the slaughter industry has severe effects on people:
The Psychological Damage of Slaughterhouse Work
Who knows what it would do to a child. This question has been raised before here. Frankly, I don't see the "upscale" Dulos family being very hands on with something like this. I have no pity for a sociopath no matter what they have experienced. They know full well the effects their actions have on others and they certainly have control over it. They know they are bad or they wouldn't feel the need to lie and cover up all the time. They should all be rounded up and kept away from decent people. IMO.

Its so hard to say how seeing the slaughter process would/could impact a child as everyones psych makeup and maturity level is different throughout childhood. Perhaps a sensitive child might react dramaticially differently versus someone that is less aware or in touch with emotions or doesn't feel much in the way of sympathy or empathy?

I've met people that saw a lobster dropped into a hot pot as a child and the noise the lobster makes for an instant when it hits the water becomes something that child never forgets and carries through to adulthood. Some children are that sensitive. Other children, not so much. I've known other people that grew up hunting from the time they were 8-10 and its a way of life for them and its had zero impact that I can see on their ability to experience deeply a wide range of emotions in a healthy way and they are brilliant partners and parents.

IDK, its a tough call about FD because he seems to like highly violent and bloody movies. Was he immune to what he might have seen with the animals in the tanning operation he might have seen as a child or was he fascinated with it and craved the blood and gore and knife work?

But if a child were sensitive and perhaps forced to participate in the process or even visiting a tanning operation then I would think that the impact might be dramatic and impactful over their lifetime. My guess is that FD was not this sensitive child as from everything we have seen FD has demonstrated zero empathy or caring and as others have mentioned has many of the classic signs of a malignant narcopath. My guess is this is simply the way he is wired emotionally and the most likely experience he had with tanning was learning excellent knife skills and how to take apart a carcass. Pure speculation on my part!

Something that might be closer to the experience of some people here might be hunting. Lots of people hunt all over the world and I'm not sure you can draw any correlation as to hunters being sociopaths or violent criminals. But some children simply cannot face the entire process of hunting and I would bet that the tanning experience might have been similar for FD growing up. I also wonder how much direct experience he might have had with the operations or as the oldest son was he made to participate and visit the operation from a young age? IDK.

I've seen large and medium size animal commerical slaughterhouses in action as well as the process of small scale butchering large animals. The experience is not for the faint of heart or emotionally fragile IMO as its hard, physical, bloody, smelly and frankly grizzly and gruesome even in an highly mechanized industrial setting. I wouldn't think a tanning operation would be all that different if they did their own processing. Just a guess. But even if the processing of the hides was done elsewhere the process of preparing the hides has many of the smells of a slaughter operations but just combined with alot of chemicals IMO.

I just keep circling back to JD blog posting about FD loving the blood and gore of Django Untangled and other similar movies. We've talked to death the idea of dragging your partner to a movie where they are wired such that they will keep their eyes closed and ears plugged the entire time or feel like they need to leave the theater as JD said she was. Who would do this to their partner? IMO that movie Django was the extreme end of gratuitous violence against human beings and that was what so upsetting to JD but apparently it oddly amused or fascinated FD.

So much of the testimony in Family Court, comments from JD friends and overall behavior in the divorce and in civil court tell us precisely who FD is as a human being. I'm not sure I could hear much more that would surprise me other than something physically or emotionally horrific he might have done to one of the children (this probably wouldn't surprise me BTW as I think he would do anything to get his way even if he were dealing with a child which is what makes him so dangerous to children IMO).

IMO he systematically conducted an emotional unraveling of JD that put her in a place of extreme emotional pain and she couldn't believe what was happening to herself as who wants to believe that someone that loves you would commit such horror? But FD did this to JD IMO and I don't for a second think he loved her ever. He did this unraveling most likely all while feeling the victim and blaming her for all that was wrong in his life and all while enjoying the Farber wealth and privilege.

We could debate for ages how FD took JD from her NYC upbringing and life, isolated her in Farmington and then proceeded to remove the aspects of her that didn't fit with his ideal of the 'typical greek wife'. He seemed to remove her religion, didn't allow her to pick her childrens names (all Greek) and its unclear if only Greek holidays were celebrated. His playbook could have been Art of War as frankly that's how so much of what seemed to play out in the marriage seemed to be. But it was masterfully done I think as JD blogs seemed to show her questioning herself and her capacity for perfection as defined by FD constantly. To me, that is what makes the JD blog entries so hard to read as you saw her being pulled apart piece by piece over a long period of time.

DV is a hugely complicated topic and I'm not sure FD knew anything about DV, but IMO he could give a PhD level course in all aspects of classic 'wheel of violence' as he broke down JD over the course of their marriage. It makes me hugely sad that Family Court could do so little to protect JD and her children from someone who I believe should never have ever been a father and had access to impresionable young minds.

If there is a psych exam in the Family Court I hope they pick a psychologist that specializes in DV and has deep knowledge of the narcopath makeup so that the mask is ripped off the monster who we know here as FD once as for all and that he and his family is never allowed access to his 5 children.

So sorry for the long post but I've been trying to process alot of these particular issues in the case and writing helps me put some pieces together in the puzzle. I usually write offline but to me this entire issue of DV is so central to this case that I wanted to put my random thoughts here in hopes that others would add to them.

The more I think about the issues, the more it seems like the tragic case of JD really is a classic DV case but hidden behind a thin veneer of surface perfection and played out amidst wealth and priviledge and beautiful suburban real estate and all the trappings. I wonder if she ever got to the place where she thought she was enough and good simply the way she was? I hope so. As I make my way through the family court documents I'm simply unsure how JD managed to last as long as she did in a marriage to FD, as it must have been horrific.

MOO MOO MOO
 
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@afitzy a "like" just wasn't enough, I thank you very much for helping me with this.

And also, I want to take time now to thank you for all your dedication, determination, researching, and helpful posts here on Jennifer's thread. You have went above and beyond in giving us detailed, well-thought out posts, have answered many questions for us posters and have provided a lot of information in regards to properties, court documents, links, maps and much, much more. So, I want to give you a big THANKS for all you do! I know I greatly appreciate it and I'm sure there are other posters that do also. So again, thank you! :)

Can one triple ditto your thanks....@afitzy has been an incredible resource in keeping the search for Jennifer and justice for her AND support for GF and the rest of the JD's family front and center in our discussions...HUGE KUDOS!
Also, thanks to EVERYONE who has and continues to lend wonderful and intelligent thoughts to this forum.
 
FD killed her. Period. While I agree with some of your observations, they do not account for two very significant facts. 1.FD removed and intentionally discarded, in a location I believe he knew would it disappear quickly (like the "garbage" evidence ) the mat to JENNIFER'S SUV. Throwing it away only brought unnecessary attention to himself, so he had to do it for a reason. He carefully placed it against a restaurant wall for the homeless people to quickly find because it had evidence of a crime. That intentional discard establishes Jennifer was either attacked in the SUV or transported in it. But LE has said the struggle was in the garage, and has said nothing about a struggle in the SUV. That kind of violent struggle would not just be on one mat, it would be elsewhere in the SUV. IMO he got rid of the mat because Jennifer's body came in contact with it. 2.If FD simply buried Jennifer in a preselected grave, why did he remove her shirt? Again, there would be absolutely no reason to do so if he was burying in a place no one would locate. If he wasn't expecting her body to be found, taking off her shirt would not be necessary and in fact, would create additional evidence for him to have to dispose of. Why would he do that?

The other consideration is would he really drive up to Jennifer's home in that red truck to load up her body? Under your hypothesis, he would have to have done that. Now, that is a boatload of risk. Witnesses don't always remember licenses plate #s. They do remember "red truck". But he knew her SUV would cause no suspicion in the neighborhood. Nothing to see here, folks. I firmly believe FD came through the woods (did the poison ivy come from there?) and he left in Jennifer's SUV.

There is no "if he did it" in my mind. Zero. While none of us can know the extent of the evidence collected by LE to date, the undisputed evidence that has been disclosed, if established at trial, should lead to a murder conviction. I have not a single doubt about this conclusion. There is no mysterious Greek mafia. There is no malignant lawyer (although he will play into the narrative). There is just a cold-blooded narcissist who thinks he can game the system.

All apologies for my tenor. This guy really gets under my skin.
Don’t apologize for your tenor!! Ever. We are all here for the same reason- Justice for Jennifer. It is a very emotional, heart wrenching situation. If we aren’t passionate, we aren’t going to be much good at finding creative hypotheses that just might help in solving this crime. If we all agreed, it certainly won’t help. It’s our debate, our back and forth that Spurs new ideas to form.

Your thoughts give me more thoughts! I welcome the challenge and push to rethink my sticking points. Ill try to answer your questions and explain my thoughts.

1. Technically, do we know it IS the mat from JDs SUV? To be honest , I need to go back and read when this piece of info hit the news. Was it a DA article in the HC? Or did LE release this info? Who saw it? We’re LE looking for it? Was it in warrant?

Regardless, let’s pretend, it was from JDs SUV. It could have gotten blood on it during attack (if a door was open) It could have been used to lay her body on to stop blood from spreading further. It could have also been used to help move JDs body alone or in EEs truck.
I too believe the attack did not happen in the car, because I think the car was positioned to make her disappearance look like an abduction, but we know nothing about the car. Nothing. Law has released no info. For all we know, it was covered in blood.

If it is accurate that video shows FD leaning a car mat against the wall, you’re right, he was trying to get rid of it. It prob had blood on it, that is why he needed to dump it.

2. I can think of reasons to remove clothing. It may have been ripped off in a struggle, it may have been used to staunch the unexpected flow of blood or it may have been used to delay identification. If it came off or was used as a rag, it simply could have been accidentally swept up with other items. Or, a suggestion I’ve made before, all identifying features may have been marred or removed to delay identification.

And I agree, witnesses might remember a red truck. And FD doesn’t own a red truck. Exactly why he used it. And having altered plates would not bring LE to EE.

Your final thoughts are powerful. And most likely correct. But LE has not arrested FD yet. Im trying to answer why? I’m a scientist, and very locked into logic and flow charts. I must consider all possible, no matter what my heart says about this despicable man. I hate being the devils advocate, but the money issues are concerning. If nothing else Id like that possibility to be disproven here, so No Case can’t make a case out of it!!

Thanks for the invigorating discussion. I think all of this is nudging us forward.
 
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Can one triple ditto your thanks....@afitzy has been an incredible resource in keeping the search for Jennifer and justice for her AND support for GF and the rest of the JD's family front and center in our discussions...HUGE KUDOS!
Also, thanks to EVERYONE who has and continues to lend wonderful and intelligent thoughts to this forum.
You are included in that Tink. Great group of posters.
 
LE and Fire Dept. could Both be correct with their statements.

It could be two different drains.

It is possible that LE was able to pull the Fedex box out of the first drain, without the help of the Fire Department.

You would think that LE would check more than one drain to see if anything had washed further down.

Then, LE may have needed help accessing the second drain by the Fire Department, where it was said that nothing was found.

The location of the first drain would have only had 1 or 2 vehicles present and not so much of a side show, especially if one or all the LE vehicles were unmarked, as detective vehicles are. Detectives in plain clothes and unmarked vehicles do not necessarily look like regular police. Even if they had their police lights on while there. It could have just looked like City Inspectors taking a look at the drain and pulling something out.

Whereas, the second drain needed the Fire Department's help to access, and they show up with a big red fire truck with bright red lights going and the Fire Chief in a separate vehicle with red lights going, all adding to the side show.

Possible? Yes.

Definitely? IDK.
My husband is a captain in a paid fire department. I mention paid because here on the east coast volunteer fire departments are fairly common as well. I haven’t yet looked to see if Hartford is volunteer or not.

I can say on searches my husband has participated in, they usually delegate responsibilities. Fire department might have opened access, or they might have been the men/women that went in, depending on circumstances (depth of drain, contents in bottom of drain). In response to another poster, wetsuits or protective gear is vital. God knows what’s down there but I can assure it probably includes heroin needles and excrement and other terrible items. They may have been told to look only for an envelope, or may have been asked to pick up anything suspicious.

The HFD probably assigned a specific truck to the task, regardless of which truck would have been first due. Hopefully, it would have been the truck that contained the crew most highly trained, or the truck that possessed the most specific tools needed. I’m sure a battalion chief’s truck was there as well, and perhaps a chief’s car (if it was a slow work day for him).

I can promise you firemen see some crazy stuff on a day to day basis, and you’d be shocked to know what they find. But most likely they went in looking for something specific and it was not a fishing expedition.

ETA details by me.
 
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Its so hard to say how seeing the slaughter process would/could impact a child as everyones psych makeup and maturity level is different throughout childhood. Perhaps a sensitive child might react dramaticially differently versus someone that is less aware or in touch with emotions or doesn't feel much in the way of sympathy or empathy?

I've met people that saw a lobster dropped into a hot pot as a child and the noise the lobster makes for an instant when it hits the water becomes something that child never forgets and carries through to adulthood. Some children are that sensitive. Other children, not so much. I've known other people that grew up hunting from the time they were 8-10 and its a way of life for them and its had zero impact that I can see on their ability to experience deeply a wide range of emotions in a healthy way and they are brilliant partners and parents.

IDK, its a tough call about FD because he seems to like highly violent and bloody movies. Was he immune to what he might have seen with the animals in the tanning operation he might have seen as a child or was he fascinated with it and craved the blood and gore and knife work?

But if a child were sensitive and perhaps forced to participate in the process or even visiting a tanning operation then I would think that the impact might be dramatic and impactful over their lifetime. My guess is that FD was not this sensitive child as from everything we have seen FD has demonstrated zero empathy or caring and as others have mentioned has many of the classic signs of a malignant narcopath. My guess is this is simply the way he is wired emotionally and the most likely experience he had with tanning was learning excellent knife skills and how to take apart a carcass. Pure speculation on my part!

Something that might be closer to the experience of some people here might be hunting. Lots of people hunt all over the world and I'm not sure you can draw any correlation as to hunters being sociopaths or violent criminals. But some children simply cannot face the entire process of hunting and I would bet that the tanning experience might have been similar for FD growing up. I also wonder how much direct experience he might have had with the operations or as the oldest son was he made to participate and visit the operation from a young age? IDK.

I've seen large and medium size animal commerical slaughterhouses in action as well as the process of small scale butchering large animals. The experience is not for the faint of heart or emotionally fragile IMO as its hard, physical, bloody, smelly and frankly grizzly and gruesome even in an highly mechanized industrial setting. I wouldn't think a tanning operation would be all that different if they did their own processing. Just a guess. But even if the processing of the hides was done elsewhere the process of preparing the hides has many of the smells of a slaughter operations but just combined with alot of chemicals IMO.

I just keep circling back to JD blog posting about FD loving the blood and gore of Django Untangled and other similar movies. We've talked to death the idea of dragging your partner to a movie where they are wired such that they will keep their eyes closed and ears plugged the entire time or feel like they need to leave the theater as JD said she was. Who would do this to their partner? IMO that movie Django was the extreme end of gratuitous violence against human beings and that was what so upsetting to JD but apparently it oddly amused or fascinated FD.

So much of the testimony in Family Court, comments from JD friends and overall behavior in the divorce and in civil court tell us precisely who FD is as a human being. I'm not sure I could hear much more that would surprise me other than something physically or emotionally horrific he might have done to one of the children (this probably wouldn't surprise me BTW as I think he would do anything to get his way even if he were dealing with a child which is what makes him so dangerous to children IMO).

IMO he systematically conducted an emotional unraveling of JD that put her in a place of extreme emotional pain and she couldn't believe what was happening to herself as who wants to believe that someone that loves you would commit such horror? But FD did this to JD IMO and I don't for a second think he loved her ever. He did this unraveling most likely all while feeling the victim and blaming her for all that was wrong in his life and all while enjoying the Farber wealth and privilege.

We could debate for ages how FD took JD from her NYC upbringing and life, isolated her in Farmington and then proceeded to remove the aspects of her that didn't fit with his ideal of the 'typical greek wife'. He seemed to remove her religion, didn't allow her to pick her childrens names (all Greek) and its unclear if only Greek holidays were celebrated. His playbook could have been Art of War as frankly that's how so much of what seemed to play out in the marriage seemed to be. But it was masterfully done I think as JD blogs seemed to show her questioning herself and her capacity for perfection as defined by FD constantly. To me, that is what makes the JD blog entries so hard to read as you saw her being pulled apart piece by piece over a long period of time.

DV is a hugely complicated topic and I'm not sure FD knew anything about DV, but IMO he could give a PhD level course in all aspects of classic 'wheel of violence' as he broke down JD over the course of their marriage. It makes me hugely sad that Family Court could do so little to protect JD and her children from someone who I believe should never have ever been a father and had access to impresionable young minds.

If there is a psych exam in the Family Court I hope they pick a psychologist that specializes in DV and has deep knowledge of the narcopath makeup so that the mask is ripped off the monster who we know here as FD once as for all and that he and his family is never allowed access to his 5 children.

So sorry for the long post but I've been trying to process alot of these particular issues in the case and writing helps me put some pieces together in the puzzle. I usually write offline but to me this entire issue of DV is so central to this case that I wanted to put my random thoughts here in hopes that others would add to them.

The more I think about the issues, the more it seems like the tragic case of JD really is a classic DV case but hidden behind a thin veneer of surface perfection and played out amidst wealth and priviledge and beautiful suburban real estate and all the trappings. I wonder if she ever got to the place where she thought she was enough and good simply the way she was? I hope so. As I make my way through the family court documents I'm simply unsure how JD managed to last as long as she did in a marriage to FD, as it must have been horrific.

MOO MOO MOO
Reading her blog was painful for me.
Hearing this lithe, beautiful, educated woman question her adequacy and worth was tough.
I wanted to jump in and shake her at times.
How the likes of HIM could cause this mother of five little ones to question herself is just beyond me!
I can only imagine what her mother thought through all those years.
He was a selfish, demanding SOB.
MOO.
 
FD killed her. Period. While I agree with some of your observations, they do not account for two very significant facts. 1.FD removed and intentionally discarded, in a location I believe he knew would it disappear quickly (like the "garbage" evidence ) the mat to JENNIFER'S SUV. Throwing it away only brought unnecessary attention to himself, so he had to do it for a reason. He carefully placed it against a restaurant wall for the homeless people to quickly find because it had evidence of a crime. That intentional discard establishes Jennifer was either attacked in the SUV or transported in it. But LE has said the struggle was in the garage, and has said nothing about a struggle in the SUV. That kind of violent struggle would not just be on one mat, it would be elsewhere in the SUV. IMO he got rid of the mat because Jennifer's body came in contact with it. 2.If FD simply buried Jennifer in a preselected grave, why did he remove her shirt? Again, there would be absolutely no reason to do so if he was burying in a place no one would locate. If he wasn't expecting her body to be found, taking off her shirt would not be necessary and in fact, would create additional evidence for him to have to dispose of. Why would he do that?

The other consideration is would he really drive up to Jennifer's home in that red truck to load up her body? Under your hypothesis, he would have to have done that. Now, that is a boatload of risk. Witnesses don't always remember licenses plate #s. They do remember "red truck". But he knew her SUV would cause no suspicion in the neighborhood. Nothing to see here, folks. I firmly believe FD came through the woods (did the poison ivy come from there?) and he left in Jennifer's SUV.

There is no "if he did it" in my mind. Zero. While none of us can know the extent of the evidence collected by LE to date, the undisputed evidence that has been disclosed, if established at trial, should lead to a murder conviction. I have not a single doubt about this conclusion. There is no mysterious Greek mafia. There is no malignant lawyer (although he will play into the narrative). There is just a cold-blooded narcissist who thinks he can game the system.

All apologies for my tenor. This guy really gets under my skin.

I agree wholeheartedly. Logic and the facts simply point to FD.
 
Its so hard to say how seeing the slaughter process would/could impact a child as everyones psych makeup and maturity level is different throughout childhood. Perhaps a sensitive child might react dramaticially differently versus someone that is less aware or in touch with emotions or doesn't feel much in the way of sympathy or empathy?

I've met people that saw a lobster dropped into a hot pot as a child and the noise the lobster makes for an instant when it hits the water becomes something that child never forgets and carries through to adulthood. Some children are that sensitive. Other children, not so much. I've known other people that grew up hunting from the time they were 8-10 and its a way of life for them and its had zero impact that I can see on their ability to experience deeply a wide range of emotions in a healthy way and they are brilliant partners and parents.

IDK, its a tough call about FD because he seems to like highly violent and bloody movies. Was he immune to what he might have seen with the animals in the tanning operation he might have seen as a child or was he fascinated with it and craved the blood and gore and knife work?

But if a child were sensitive and perhaps forced to participate in the process or even visiting a tanning operation then I would think that the impact might be dramatic and impactful over their lifetime. My guess is that FD was not this sensitive child as from everything we have seen FD has demonstrated zero empathy or caring and as others have mentioned has many of the classic signs of a malignant narcopath. My guess is this is simply the way he is wired emotionally and the most likely experience he had with tanning was learning excellent knife skills and how to take apart a carcass. Pure speculation on my part!

Something that might be closer to the experience of some people here might be hunting. Lots of people hunt all over the world and I'm not sure you can draw any correlation as to hunters being sociopaths or violent criminals. But some children simply cannot face the entire process of hunting and I would bet that the tanning experience might have been similar for FD growing up. I also wonder how much direct experience he might have had with the operations or as the oldest son was he made to participate and visit the operation from a young age? IDK.

I've seen large and medium size animal commerical slaughterhouses in action as well as the process of small scale butchering large animals. The experience is not for the faint of heart or emotionally fragile IMO as its hard, physical, bloody, smelly and frankly grizzly and gruesome even in an highly mechanized industrial setting. I wouldn't think a tanning operation would be all that different if they did their own processing. Just a guess. But even if the processing of the hides was done elsewhere the process of preparing the hides has many of the smells of a slaughter operations but just combined with alot of chemicals IMO.

I just keep circling back to JD blog posting about FD loving the blood and gore of Django Untangled and other similar movies. We've talked to death the idea of dragging your partner to a movie where they are wired such that they will keep their eyes closed and ears plugged the entire time or feel like they need to leave the theater as JD said she was. Who would do this to their partner? IMO that movie Django was the extreme end of gratuitous violence against human beings and that was what so upsetting to JD but apparently it oddly amused or fascinated FD.

So much of the testimony in Family Court, comments from JD friends and overall behavior in the divorce and in civil court tell us precisely who FD is as a human being. I'm not sure I could hear much more that would surprise me other than something physically or emotionally horrific he might have done to one of the children (this probably wouldn't surprise me BTW as I think he would do anything to get his way even if he were dealing with a child which is what makes him so dangerous to children IMO).

IMO he systematically conducted an emotional unraveling of JD that put her in a place of extreme emotional pain and she couldn't believe what was happening to herself as who wants to believe that someone that loves you would commit such horror? But FD did this to JD IMO and I don't for a second think he loved her ever. He did this unraveling most likely all while feeling the victim and blaming her for all that was wrong in his life and all while enjoying the Farber wealth and privilege.

We could debate for ages how FD took JD from her NYC upbringing and life, isolated her in Farmington and then proceeded to remove the aspects of her that didn't fit with his ideal of the 'typical greek wife'. He seemed to remove her religion, didn't allow her to pick her childrens names (all Greek) and its unclear if only Greek holidays were celebrated. His playbook could have been Art of War as frankly that's how so much of what seemed to play out in the marriage seemed to be. But it was masterfully done I think as JD blogs seemed to show her questioning herself and her capacity for perfection as defined by FD constantly. To me, that is what makes the JD blog entries so hard to read as you saw her being pulled apart piece by piece over a long period of time.

DV is a hugely complicated topic and I'm not sure FD knew anything about DV, but IMO he could give a PhD level course in all aspects of classic 'wheel of violence' as he broke down JD over the course of their marriage. It makes me hugely sad that Family Court could do so little to protect JD and her children from someone who I believe should never have ever been a father and had access to impresionable young minds.

If there is a psych exam in the Family Court I hope they pick a psychologist that specializes in DV and has deep knowledge of the narcopath makeup so that the mask is ripped off the monster who we know here as FD once as for all and that he and his family is never allowed access to his 5 children.

So sorry for the long post but I've been trying to process alot of these particular issues in the case and writing helps me put some pieces together in the puzzle. I usually write offline but to me this entire issue of DV is so central to this case that I wanted to put my random thoughts here in hopes that others would add to them.

The more I think about the issues, the more it seems like the tragic case of JD really is a classic DV case but hidden behind a thin veneer of surface perfection and played out amidst wealth and priviledge and beautiful suburban real estate and all the trappings. I wonder if she ever got to the place where she thought she was enough and good simply the way she was? I hope so. As I make my way through the family court documents I'm simply unsure how JD managed to last as long as she did in a marriage to FD, as it must have been horrific.

MOO MOO MOO
Thank you for this. May be my favorite of all your posts.
My heart hurts for Jennifer’s suffering and her family’s pain.
 
FD did not taken JD to his house after he killed her IMO - to dismember/put her in bags to take on the Odyssey of Stupidty. Why?

2 Primary Reason
He loved those houses like you are suppose to love a wife/children. They represented more to him than we can never fully imagine. All of his time and energy went into building his sick version of the American dream. IMO there is no way he would want the person responsible, in his eyes, for tearing all down- in the yard, under the porch cement or anywhere close to his true lover---his houses.

Because this was premeditated, he thought of a place to bury her that was perfect. Why did he take her shirt off....b/c fabric takes much longer to disintegrate than human flesh and he didn't want it found with the body. Or if in water, would risk floating off body.

As we know he was big into his Greek culture---wanted the children to speak language etc. As he was planning his attack out---what his culture taught him must have played some part in how he carried out his plan---whether he realizes it or not.

For example, Greek mythology there is a tremendous amount of anxiety surrounding what to do with the dead, and especially what will happen to the deceased if they are not buried properly. According to Greek literature, if the souls were not buried properly they would be stranded, unable to reach the afterworld. Many cultures view death and burial as an important part of after-life, and to ignore this right of passage into the underworld only makes us less of a human ourselves.

Fear represents a major motive forming the posthumous customs. This is due to beliefs that the souls of the deceased ancestors can return to the world of the living and in their suffering and wandering between the worlds unless a proper funeral was arranged for them. The secret fear that they felt towards the deceased caused the appearance of many impressive methods of burial, the aim of which was protection of the community from the destructive factors and unfavorable influences.

All of this was to say IMO - he buried JD in a way that he felt was perfect, under his situation, honored her so that she would not haunt him and certainly AWAY from his only true true love--those stupid houses--a shrine to his lost soul.

Please
MOO
 
@afitzy a "like" just wasn't enough, I thank you very much for helping me with this.

And also, I want to take time now to thank you for all your dedication, determination, researching, and helpful posts here on Jennifer's thread. You have went above and beyond in giving us detailed, well-thought out posts, have answered many questions for us posters and have provided a lot of information in regards to properties, court documents, links, maps and much, much more. So, I want to give you a big THANKS for all you do! I know I greatly appreciate it and I'm sure there are other posters that do also. So again, thank you! :)

I agree.
afitzy, is a gem, always providing loads of info, for all of us.:):):)
Hope she/he does not go on holidays soon.
 
@sunshinegirl2013 @afitzy
Still struggling with a possible dismemberment. In tanning, doesn't the process just involve skinning the carcass, and not dismembering it? Knife skills required by both, but two different kinds of skills as well as 2 different kinds of knives. If FD planned for this, he would have brought something large enough, or brought a motorized “knife.” If the weapon was a thinner knife, like used in fish preparation, if we are to believe what DD slipped in his pocket, IMO a dismemberment would be even more difficult. Besides the fact that IMO tanning make not include an education about joint separation. But it might? I certainly don’t know for sure.
Then there is the whole time element. @citygirl has a good point. He seemingly had 9-12, but this is in hindsight. He couldn’t be sure he would alone for that time. He may have known the housekeeper was schedule at noon, but she might have arrived early. And how could he know whether or not the nanny would arrive to retrieve a forgotten article? Or a serviceman or delivery was scheduled? IMO , even if he did plan a dismemberment, it did not occur at JDs house. As for the afternoon 12-7 opening, his phone pings do move ard a lot and break up the time. He was at 80MS for a good solid 2 hrs. If he was in the midst of dismembering the body, I don’t imagine he would have left it and returned so the 2 hr window seems the most logical. Could he do it in that time? First time, adrenaline fueled, rage, fear,? I don’t know.
 
Its so hard to say how seeing the slaughter process would/could impact a child as everyones psych makeup and maturity level is different throughout childhood. Perhaps a sensitive child might react dramaticially differently versus someone that is less aware or in touch with emotions or doesn't feel much in the way of sympathy or empathy?

I've met people that saw a lobster dropped into a hot pot as a child and the noise the lobster makes for an instant when it hits the water becomes something that child never forgets and carries through to adulthood. Some children are that sensitive. Other children, not so much. I've known other people that grew up hunting from the time they were 8-10 and its a way of life for them and its had zero impact that I can see on their ability to experience deeply a wide range of emotions in a healthy way and they are brilliant partners and parents.

IDK, its a tough call about FD because he seems to like highly violent and bloody movies. Was he immune to what he might have seen with the animals in the tanning operation he might have seen as a child or was he fascinated with it and craved the blood and gore and knife work?

But if a child were sensitive and perhaps forced to participate in the process or even visiting a tanning operation then I would think that the impact might be dramatic and impactful over their lifetime. My guess is that FD was not this sensitive child as from everything we have seen FD has demonstrated zero empathy or caring and as others have mentioned has many of the classic signs of a malignant narcopath. My guess is this is simply the way he is wired emotionally and the most likely experience he had with tanning was learning excellent knife skills and how to take apart a carcass. Pure speculation on my part!

Something that might be closer to the experience of some people here might be hunting. Lots of people hunt all over the world and I'm not sure you can draw any correlation as to hunters being sociopaths or violent criminals. But some children simply cannot face the entire process of hunting and I would bet that the tanning experience might have been similar for FD growing up. I also wonder how much direct experience he might have had with the operations or as the oldest son was he made to participate and visit the operation from a young age? IDK.

I've seen large and medium size animal commerical slaughterhouses in action as well as the process of small scale butchering large animals. The experience is not for the faint of heart or emotionally fragile IMO as its hard, physical, bloody, smelly and frankly grizzly and gruesome even in an highly mechanized industrial setting. I wouldn't think a tanning operation would be all that different if they did their own processing. Just a guess. But even if the processing of the hides was done elsewhere the process of preparing the hides has many of the smells of a slaughter operations but just combined with alot of chemicals IMO.

I just keep circling back to JD blog posting about FD loving the blood and gore of Django Untangled and other similar movies. We've talked to death the idea of dragging your partner to a movie where they are wired such that they will keep their eyes closed and ears plugged the entire time or feel like they need to leave the theater as JD said she was. Who would do this to their partner? IMO that movie Django was the extreme end of gratuitous violence against human beings and that was what so upsetting to JD but apparently it oddly amused or fascinated FD.

So much of the testimony in Family Court, comments from JD friends and overall behavior in the divorce and in civil court tell us precisely who FD is as a human being. I'm not sure I could hear much more that would surprise me other than something physically or emotionally horrific he might have done to one of the children (this probably wouldn't surprise me BTW as I think he would do anything to get his way even if he were dealing with a child which is what makes him so dangerous to children IMO).

IMO he systematically conducted an emotional unraveling of JD that put her in a place of extreme emotional pain and she couldn't believe what was happening to herself as who wants to believe that someone that loves you would commit such horror? But FD did this to JD IMO and I don't for a second think he loved her ever. He did this unraveling most likely all while feeling the victim and blaming her for all that was wrong in his life and all while enjoying the Farber wealth and privilege.

We could debate for ages how FD took JD from her NYC upbringing and life, isolated her in Farmington and then proceeded to remove the aspects of her that didn't fit with his ideal of the 'typical greek wife'. He seemed to remove her religion, didn't allow her to pick her childrens names (all Greek) and its unclear if only Greek holidays were celebrated. His playbook could have been Art of War as frankly that's how so much of what seemed to play out in the marriage seemed to be. But it was masterfully done I think as JD blogs seemed to show her questioning herself and her capacity for perfection as defined by FD constantly. To me, that is what makes the JD blog entries so hard to read as you saw her being pulled apart piece by piece over a long period of time.

DV is a hugely complicated topic and I'm not sure FD knew anything about DV, but IMO he could give a PhD level course in all aspects of classic 'wheel of violence' as he broke down JD over the course of their marriage. It makes me hugely sad that Family Court could do so little to protect JD and her children from someone who I believe should never have ever been a father and had access to impresionable young minds.

If there is a psych exam in the Family Court I hope they pick a psychologist that specializes in DV and has deep knowledge of the narcopath makeup so that the mask is ripped off the monster who we know here as FD once as for all and that he and his family is never allowed access to his 5 children.

So sorry for the long post but I've been trying to process alot of these particular issues in the case and writing helps me put some pieces together in the puzzle. I usually write offline but to me this entire issue of DV is so central to this case that I wanted to put my random thoughts here in hopes that others would add to them.

The more I think about the issues, the more it seems like the tragic case of JD really is a classic DV case but hidden behind a thin veneer of surface perfection and played out amidst wealth and priviledge and beautiful suburban real estate and all the trappings. I wonder if she ever got to the place where she thought she was enough and good simply the way she was? I hope so. As I make my way through the family court documents I'm simply unsure how JD managed to last as long as she did in a marriage to FD, as it must have been horrific.

MOO MOO MOO

I hope Jennifer Farber Dulos’ death changes the laws in all the states where DV is pushed aside as less than a “real” problem.
Texas has long held the “no drop” policy against DV. They pursue the aggressor, whether or not the victim agrees to prosecute/testify.
 
He loved those houses like you are suppose to love a wife/children. They represented more to him than we can never fully imagine. All of his time and energy went into building his sick version of the American dream. IMO there is no way he would want the person responsible, in his eyes, for tearing all down- in the yard, under the porch cement or anywhere close to his true lover---his houses.

All of this was to say IMO - he buried JD in a way that he felt was perfect, under his situation, honored her so that she would not haunt him and certainly AWAY from his only true true love--those stupid houses--a shrine to his lost soul.

Please
MOO
RSBM:
Have to vehemently disagree. I do not believe for one second that FD EVER cared one bit about "honor" for Jennifer. He is without honor entirely. IMO, I doubt there is any spirituality within him in any way, shape or form that would give rise to the thought of being haunted. As for the houses, that is an interesting thought. I can sort of see it almost. But I lean toward the houses being mostly a way to siphon money to himself. I don't think they represented much more than that to him. He is really too shallow for anything else. MOO>
 
I cannot for one second understand any of this....My ex and I ended on a bad note....I was done with the cheating and he was angry with me.....my DH and I on occasion argue......I can't imagine either of them EVER for one second thinking...oh, I could just kill her....I cannot fathom it....my ex and I fought over money because we'd been married for many years and raised children but worked it out and my kids, who are all adults, know that at a minimum we respect each other.
What the F is wrong that you could kill anyone, let alone the partner you had children with?
 
FD did not taken JD to his house after he killed her IMO - to dismember/put her in bags to take on the Odyssey of Stupidty. Why?

2 Primary Reason
He loved those houses like you are suppose to love a wife/children. They represented more to him than we can never fully imagine. All of his time and energy went into building his sick version of the American dream. IMO there is no way he would want the person responsible, in his eyes, for tearing all down- in the yard, under the porch cement or anywhere close to his true lover---his houses.

Because this was premeditated, he thought of a place to bury her that was perfect. Why did he take her shirt off....b/c fabric takes much longer to disintegrate than human flesh and he didn't want it found with the body. Or if in water, would risk floating off body.

As we know he was big into his Greek culture---wanted the children to speak language etc. As he was planning his attack out---what his culture taught him must have played some part in how he carried out his plan---whether he realizes it or not.

For example, Greek mythology there is a tremendous amount of anxiety surrounding what to do with the dead, and especially what will happen to the deceased if they are not buried properly. According to Greek literature, if the souls were not buried properly they would be stranded, unable to reach the afterworld. Many cultures view death and burial as an important part of after-life, and to ignore this right of passage into the underworld only makes us less of a human ourselves.

Fear represents a major motive forming the posthumous customs. This is due to beliefs that the souls of the deceased ancestors can return to the world of the living and in their suffering and wandering between the worlds unless a proper funeral was arranged for them. The secret fear that they felt towards the deceased caused the appearance of many impressive methods of burial, the aim of which was protection of the community from the destructive factors and unfavorable influences.

All of this was to say IMO - he buried JD in a way that he felt was perfect, under his situation, honored her so that she would not haunt him and certainly AWAY from his only true true love--those stupid houses--a shrine to his lost soul.

Please
MOO
I do not agree with your basic proposition, namely, that any of his action were intended to "honor" Jennifer. That was the last thing on FD's mind. If anything, he wanted to do exactly the opposite-degrade her, which is consistent with the evidence we have read about to date. Additionally, once Jennifer's body was found, she WAS gonna be identified. As a woman of means, you can be sure she regularly saw a dentist and those records tell all. Removing that T-shirt was in no way going to stop her identification. It was a superfluous to do so, a whole lot of trouble (removing clothing of the deceased is difficult in the best of circumstances which is why MEs often make selective cuts to remove them), and, if he believed she would not be located, why go to all that effort?
 
It is back to school for me today, and I would like to echo the thanks to our great posters. I won't be able to check-in as often, but I will as often as possible, knowing that the conversation will still be continuing in the most respectful, educated way possible.

Along with the other posters that have been mentioned, I want to thank @sds71 for always having the most up-to-the-minute filings. Sometimes I wonder if you are camped out at the courthouse waiting for them.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to what I feel is one of the best threads on Websleuths. While I hate that we have to be here, you are all the type of people who make me realize what a great place this world really is.

Please let there be justice for Jennifer and her family soon.
 
I do not agree with your basic proposition, namely, that any of his action were intended to "honor" Jennifer. That was the last thing on FD's mind. If anything, he wanted to do exactly the opposite-degrade her, which is consistent with the evidence we have read about to date. Additionally, once Jennifer's body was found, she WAS gonna be identified. As a woman of means, you can be sure she regularly saw a dentist and those records tell all. Removing that T-shirt was in no way going to stop her identification. It was a superfluous to do so, a whole lot of trouble (removing clothing of the deceased is difficult in the best of circumstances which is why MEs often make selective cuts to remove them), and, if he believed she would not be located, why go to all that effort?
I know the window of time for this crime was narrow. However, since the discovery of the t-shirt/bra, I have wondered how far he went to humiliate her. Was she made to undress? Did it go further than that with a sexual assault? IDK. It's happened before in other cases. FD has NO honor, not an OUNCE of it, not toward his kids, JD or the American Dream, nor his houses. As far as MT and the Greek family, well Birds of a Feather and all. They are vehicles/enablers of his debauched lifestyle. And if circumstances require, he will @#$% them over too, if necessary and when he no longer needs them. MT better be talking because FD is only out for FD. IMO.
 
I cannot for one second understand any of this....My ex and I ended on a bad note....I was done with the cheating and he was angry with me.....my DH and I on occasion argue......I can't imagine either of them EVER for one second thinking...oh, I could just kill her....I cannot fathom it....my ex and I fought over money because we'd been married for many years and raised children but worked it out and my kids, who are all adults, know that at a minimum we respect each other.
What the F is wrong that you could kill anyone, let alone the partner you had children with?
Be thankful you cannot fathom this. Once a person does understand, they are forever changed. Not in a good way.
 
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