Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Intrigued25]

DBM

 

[heartgoesout]

I know LE says they didn’t use search dogs because so many people were out there but that just doesn’t make sense.

LE could have had dogs out there by 5:30. Yes there may have been a lot of people but there are a lot of people in airports too and the dogs can still figure out who is concealing drugs out of hundreds of people.

Most counties have search dogs and if not ISP does.

If I recall, search and rescue dogs would need to be brought in. They are not readily available within an hour. If I'm wrong someone correct me. : )

 

[steeltowngirl]

Any theories on what could bring someone from outside of Delphi/Carrol County to the area, specifically Monon High Bridge?

I know LE are working on the theory that the individual is local, but what if he isn't?

Are there any websites or links (i.e. best birdwatching locations, atlas obscura, low-traffic hikes, old bridges, etc...) that directly link Monon High Bridge?

The hobbies you mentioned plus many more. Hunting, mushrooms, fishing, etc.

The problem is, how do you find those individuals, then investigate everyone that had an interest in the area?

It would be great if they could bring everyone in for an interview. I wish they could. Grill them one by one in a hot room with a clock ticking, and see who sh*ts their pants.

But they can’t.

 

[tresir2012]

If I recall, search and rescue dogs would need to be brought in. They are not readily available within an hour. If I'm wrong someone correct me. : )

I don't even think they had them and they were due to arrive from Illinois IIRC but then they didn't arrive so the searchers began and found the girls. To answer another poster I believe they were found only around 4 or 500 metres from the end of the bridge and across the creek. MOO

 

[Boxer]

So I have followed this all along but rarely post. Anyways, can someone tell me this: Where were the girls found in relation to the initial search? It just seems like they would have been found that first night? Did they miss them or is it a bigger area than what they initially looked in?

They were found about 2500 feet east of the bridge on private property.
On the north side of the creek about 50 ft. from the creek bank and south of the cemetery.
They were found on a flat area on the incline from the creek up to to the road.
The area behind the cemetery is an old gravel pit, there are berms, it is a bit steep to access, but there seems to be at least a deer and kid trail.

 

[k-mac]

So I have followed this all along but rarely post. Anyways, can someone tell me this: Where were the girls found in relation to the initial search? It just seems like they would have been found that first night? Did they miss them or is it a bigger area than what they initially looked in?

I cant directly answer your question.
but from what I can tell, as the crow flies the girls where very very close to the end of the bridge straight across the river however as you would walk/track it actually wouldn't be obvious or direct because being winter nobody would have assumed they would have waded through that icy water at any crossing point.


moo

 

[tresir2012]

right. but "thousands" of volunteer searchers were out, so it was not - not a big deal at all. I don't think that many people would be searching so soon if no one thought it was a big deal. LE thought it was not a big deal, but others thought it was.

Not thousands, Riley's quote was "a thousand", other quotes stated "dozens" and "hundreds" . Enough to contaminate a scene making use of search dogs difficult by the next day after 10a.m.

 

[Boxer]

Not thousands, Riley's quote was "a thousand", other quotes stated "dozens" and "hundreds" . Enough to contaminate a scene making use of search dogs difficult by the next day after 10a.m.

The central CS where the girls were found was not contaminated. Searchers did contaminate the exit trails. For instance the parking lots and cemetery road. MOO no one searched east if the bridge until 2/14/17.

 

[FinePrint]

Not thousands, Riley's quote was "a thousand", other quotes stated "dozens" and "hundreds" . Enough to contaminate a scene making use of search dogs difficult by the next day after 10a.m.

They should have had the dogs out there on the 13th as soon as they found out there was 2 missing girls last seen on the trails. If Carroll county does not have search dogs ISP does and so does neighboring counties like mine.

Like I said they should have quickly gathered all resources that evening. How many times have we heard that LE told parents to wait, they’ll come home, they are teenagers. We’ve seen this play out so many times with bad endings

I thought those days were over and that the modern protocol is to move quickly and not waist time.

 

[Pedrosmom]

Yes. I agree that the police were slow to realize they were faced with the worst case scenario. They had their assumptions that night. Of course due to national news the while country was watching and very surprised that the official search was called off.

I don’t recall the initial search of the girls or the search being called off being on national news or Chicago news for that matter. I do remember the news breaking when they were found though.

 

[Boxer]

I don’t recall the initial search of the girls or the search being called off being on national news or Chicago news for that matter. I do remember the news breaking when they were found though.

I guess I read the national news feeds like Google News which present headlines and links for important national and local stories. So you are right, it was national news for the readers of news on the web, but not for network TV news watchers.

 

[Falcon500]

They should have had the dogs out there on the 13th as soon as they found out there was 2 missing girls last seen on the trails. If Carroll county does not have search dogs ISP does and so does neighboring counties like mine.

Like I said they should have quickly gathered all resources that evening. How many times have we heard that LE told parents to wait, they’ll come home, they are teenagers. We’ve seen this play out so many times with bad endings

I thought those days were over and that the modern protocol is to move quickly and not waist time.

Hindsight is 20-20. I’m just going to guess because back when I worked these cases 99.9% of missing teenager cases were runaways or kids on a lark.

What you think they “should have” done comes with the luxury of knowing the outcome of this case. Small town chiefs, county sheriffs, and big city chiefs all have to answer to someone about the amount of overtime spent.
Calling out dogs, legions of search officers, and helicopters all cost a lot of money that towns, counties, and cities are not willing to spend every time two teenage girls don’t come home on time.

This all may sound abrupt and rude but it’s based on nearly three decades in law enforcement.

 

[heartgoesout]

Only one of the witnesses who wished she had warned them apparently IIRC.

Hindsight is 20/20. Speaking of 20/20 vision, one would think there’d be a great sketch from this interaction.

 

[Boxer]

Hindsight is 20-20. I’m just going to guess because back when I worked these cases 99.9% of missing teenager cases were runaways or kids on a lark.

What you think they “should have” done comes with the luxury of knowing the outcome of this case. Small town chiefs, county sheriffs, and big city chiefs all have to answer to someone about the amount of overtime spent.
Calling out dogs, legions of search officers, and helicopters all cost a lot of money that towns, counties, and cities are not willing to spend every time two teenage girls don’t come home on time.

This all may sound abrupt and rude but it’s based on nearly three decades in law enforcement.

True. But CaCo did try to get an Amber Alert from the ISP.

 

[TheVisual]

That's an excellent point. If the girl were planning to stay away for whatever reason, they probably would never have made that call to DG for a pick-up ride home. They would have just told Libby's Gram they did.

They had to have a way home before they left or they couldn't go. Might have called DG on the way and he was going to pick them up.

 

[SilentRogue]

The hobbies you mentioned plus many more. Hunting, mushrooms, fishing, etc.

The problem is, how do you find those individuals, then investigate everyone that had an interest in the area?

It would be great if they could bring everyone in for an interview. I wish they could. Grill them one by one in a hot room with a clock ticking, and see who sh*ts their pants.

But they can’t.

You're right, they dont have the resources to bring everyone in.

I'm merely trying to figure out what (if anything) would or could attract someone from outside Carrol County/Delphi to the monon high bridge.

I notice "best hikes in West Lafayette" provided some links to Monon Bridge at the bottom of the list.

 

[FinePrint]

Hindsight is 20-20. I’m just going to guess because back when I worked these cases 99.9% of missing teenager cases were runaways or kids on a lark.

What you think they “should have” done comes with the luxury of knowing the outcome of this case. Small town chiefs, county sheriffs, and big city chiefs all have to answer to someone about the amount of overtime spent.
Calling out dogs, legions of search officers, and helicopters all cost a lot of money that towns, counties, and cities are not willing to spend every time two teenage girls don’t come home on time.

This all may sound abrupt and rude but it’s based on nearly three decades in law enforcement.

I hear you. Thanks for the inside view of things. But let me ask you this. Isn’t it old school for LE to say let’s wait for so and so hours?

For example it used to be when there was a mass shooting LE would wait before entering a building, rather hoping that they can negotiate with the shooter. Now the protocol is to enter the building immediately to eliminate the shooter and save as many life’s as possible.

What I’m saying is that that night the girls went missing they should at a minimum had search dogs out there. I think the cost for a search dog would be easy to reconcile and provide the best results.

Truly asking your expert opinion on this. TIA

 

[heartgoesout]

You're right, they dont have the resources to bring everyone in.

I'm merely trying to figure out what (if anything) would or could attract someone from outside Carrol County/Delphi to the monon high bridge.

I notice "best hikes in West Lafayette" provided some links to Monon Bridge at the bottom of the list.

We've been down every road possible. From coin shows to insurance agents. That's a needle in a haystack rabbit hole that'll drive ya to drink! lol

 

[SilentRogue]

We've been down every road possible. From coin shows to insurance agents. That's a needle in a haystack rabbit hole that'll drive ya to drink! lol

I'm not going down a road. I'm figuring something out.

What could draw a non-local, to this location, described as a non-local spot?

Personally, I like water. I'm from Richmond, VA and Roseburg, OR.

I love the Umpqua River, and the James - most of my hikes center on views of those locations.

When I look for a new hike here in RVA, I google "best hikes on the James"...

Even in a city like Richmond, there are places I would describe as local's only... however, if you're interested in history, or city views, I might suggest Libby Hill.

Is there anything bearing any significance for any specific interest at Monon High Trail or Monon High Bridge?

 

[Charlot123]

This is one of my top questions. Who saw them there? Who. With all that is out there no one has said I saw the girls there.

It would be extremely strange to assume they ran away, they asked to go to the bridge and BP said, OK, as long as someone drives you there and picks you up. This does not look like a setup for running away. Yes, per BP, in the morning Libby spoke with mom, but it was already mid-day, with school the next morning. What a strange assumption, that they ran away. Who made it?