Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[tresir2012]

I don't think there is any evidence that BG was seen on the trails outside of the bridge video. We don't know where the OBG sketch came from, except that a man who matched the sketch was arrested on child rape charges after the murders and cleared of the murders. YBG was not specifically placed on the trails by a witness, but was linked to questions about a car at the DCS/CPS bldg. I seriously doubt BG was on any of the trails after the murder, unless he's super stupid, which is possible. I think he accesses the bridge from the woods adjacent to it after walking through the woods from CPS or the cemetery, not the trails. He even could have been waiting under the bridge ties - hiding in the steel girders and climbed up onto the bridge after the girls passed his location.

WADR the only way one can access the high bridge is from the trails themselves. Any other ways would be trespassing. There are witnesses from on the trails and this has been covered many times on here.

 

[tresir2012]

I'd love to hear if each of these witnesses saw OBG, or YBG. Did any of them ever say the man they saw didn't look anything like the OBG sketch?

I think there is probably specifics regarding this but the identity of the witnesses obviously needs protecting so it would never appear in a form that we could discuss openly, but my guess is there are 3 or 4 witnesses perhaps. MOO.

 

[ACE422]

Do you remember how MP said that Libby’s phone was “pinging all over town”, and then we were explained that they have only two towers in Delphi, so the phone was pinging off either of them, and also in this case, with only two towers, triangulation is impossible? Shouldn’t it be true for all phones using the same provider in this town?

We use the “find my friends app” and it’s often shows us pinging all over at locations we are not actually physically present at when we are in areas with poor reception. While useful, it’s not always 100% accurate.

 

[Jax49]

BG has been seen by witnesses on the trail and the bridge and on 300 near the cemetery. He has not apparently been seen in a car or near a car. (unless new witnesses have come forward). So I am wondering if actually he came and went on foot and was local to the area indeed, perhaps there hunting or fishing or trapping and attacked the girls for some unknown psychotic reason. Then cleaned up in the creek before leaving the creek area on foot (the footprints) thru the cemetery (witnessed) and then east past RL's farm in the direction of Wilson's bridge. No vehicle was involved as no Amber alert was issued so now this vehicle at the CPS building is rather strange IMO.

BBM

Is there a source available for the highlighted? Been here since the beginning but sure missed that. TIA

 

[tresir2012]

I'd love to hear if each of these witnesses saw OBG, or YBG. Did any of them ever say the man they saw didn't look anything like the OBG sketch?

I think the witnesses descriptions may well have varied depending what he was wearing and whether it was before or after the murders. We know he was well covered going by the video and LE description, so some witnesses may have seen him after the crime without the hoodie or jacket for example. Additionally, the OBG sketch did not come out until 5 months after the murders. The person gave the details for YBG only three days after the murders, so he/she can't have agreed about the OBG sketch IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Two things come to mind.

If RL or any other neighbors are still in the mood to collaborate. They should be asked if they remember seeing a local kid, 10-12, playing in that area, making a fort, or bringing an axe, or something else, several years ago. Sort of acting out on his imaginary world. This is why he brought them in to the place. He must have been daydreaming about it, and his dreams would become more violent with time.

(This if the crime is of some sexual nature to him, and not triggered by pure anger. I can't sort it out).

One reason why people would kill is to hide their sexual preferences. And it could be teenage girls, or women, or boys.

I wonder what interest online groups Abby or Libby were members of. Sometimes people post under aliases, and these aliases could be of either sex. It could have been that the perp. started following one of the girls thinking she was a boy. And the fear when he realized his mistake did the rest.

I think they were meeting someone but it wasn't necessarily a romantic meeting or a boy. I think they were lured with some idea or item of intrigue. Maybe photography related, maybe otherwise. There are activities we can't discuss that could be related. I also think at that age teens can arrange casual meetups fast bc kids often don't know how, what, or when they will be able to do anything due to reliance on others for approval or transport. I don't think BG is a kid as in teen, but young enough to be able to roll with the changing schedules of young teens.

 

[tresir2012]

BBM

Is there a source available for the highlighted? Been here since the beginning but sure missed that. TIA

No sorry I am speculating regarding this and didn't mean the footprints were thru the cemetery, sorry it appears to read that way but I meant in the muddy creek area before leaving via the cemetery. There is a known source mentioning footprints but it is not specified where. IIRC the source says something like the searchers followed footprints but that's about all.

 

[Charlot123]

I think the witnesses descriptions may well have varied depending what he was wearing and whether it was before or after the murders. We know he was well covered going by the video and LE description, so some witnesses may have seen him after the crime without the hoodie or jacket for example. Additionally, the OBG sketch did not come out until 5 months after the murders. The person gave the details for YBG only three days after the murders, so he/she can't have agreed about the OBG sketch IMO.

Interestingly, we all might agree that the girls were not dressed for the first date. What about the men the witnesses described before the murders? Did he look somewhat dressed up, or not? Nice sweater and shoes, for example?

 

[Jax49]

No sorry I am speculating regarding this and didn't mean the footprints were thru the cemetery, sorry it appears to read that way but I meant in the muddy creek area before leaving via the cemetery. There is a known source mentioning footprints but it is not specified where. IIRC the source says something like the searchers followed footprints but that's about all.

No problem, just thought I was out of the loop. I've always wondered why we don't see footprints on the creek bank - maybe they crossed farther upstream.

I was one of the people screaming about LE being parked all over the cemetery - I've always thought he exited that way. But if there was evidence they destroyed it.

moo

 

[TL4S]

If RL or any other neighbors are still in the mood to collaborate. They should be asked if they remember seeing a local kid, 10-12, playing in that area, making a fort, or bringing an axe, or something else, several years ago. Sort of acting out on his imaginary world. This is why he brought them in to the place. He must have been daydreaming about it, and his dreams would become more violent with time.

SBM

This is totally JMO, but I think the CS was chosen based on its invisibility from the bridge, houses, and trail. Assuming he engaged them at the south end, if he'd taken them any other direction, they might have been seen. If he did indeed lead them across the creek on the sandbar, again he picked the only part of the creek there that can't be seen from on top of the bridge.

I've obsessed over that sandbar. It seemed obvious to me that it was chosen because it was shallow. But watching videos, helicopter footage, and photos taken from on top of the bridge, plus looking at the bend of the creek just west of the sandbar, it is pretty curious that it's the only place along the wooded area beneath the bridge that can't be seen from on top of it. Is that just a coincidence?

I agree with GH that the little corner between a small bluff at the east edge of the woods under the bridge, where it meets the creek, is highly suspect. I think something happened there. Maybe from there the girls ran across? I can't make sense of it. But from my understanding, that spot might also be where the searchers were when they found Libby's shoe, just before they found the bodies. It wasn't exactly clear where the shoe was, and at first I thought it was on the south side of the creek, but I questioned why that alone would make searches look across the creek. So I wonder if the shoe was either in the creek, or on the north side, which then would cause the searcher to look over there. IDK...

 

[Spartygirl]

Outside of Indiana, it is probably on the radar of way less than 5% of Americans. JMO. Infuriating.

I have family and friends that live within 1- 2 hours of Delphi in Indiana and have never heard of this case.
So sad as I assumed the whole state of Indiana and surrounding states would be aware, but sadly that is not true.

 

[Spartygirl]

Has anyone looked through Delphi HS yearbooks from 2016-2017? This became a regular pastime for the GSK sleuthers. I'm a new Sleuth, but would be extremely interested in plummeting down that rabbit hole if for no other reason than naiveté.

Yes but we can't bring names in here. We have gone through the yearbooks for back before 2017 and after 2017,

 

[sunsetbeach]

yes - there was a movement to save the bridge and to get grants to pay for it. I wondered if someone didn't want money going to the bridge bc they wanted it for something else and tried to ruin the bridge's reputation to destroy interest in saving it.

Sponsor, donors sought to turn trestle into trail crossing

I pondered something similar back in March 2019.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

Someone on Youtube spoke to a man who lives on W 300 N (First house on the right hand side if your coming from the old CPS building). He sold part of his land not knowing that they were going to erect the Feedom bridge He also had someone kicked off his land that is well known to this case.
What he has to say is very interesting.

 

[tresir2012]

Interestingly, we all might agree that the girls were not dressed for the first date. What about the men the witnesses described before the murders? Did he look somewhat dressed up, or not? Nice sweater and shoes, for example?

Charlot, I think you are joking about BG being dressed up aren't you?

 

[Spartygirl]

Actually, yes! In one of my theories someone drops BG off at the trailhead to follow the girls in and then come up behind them and scare them across the bridge and "down the hill", across the creek to the CS, and gets picked up after the horrid deed is done at the cemetery, right up close to RL's gate. It's been said that the distance from the CS to that spot is about two football fields in length. The car wouldn't be seen from the road. Just speculation of course. This could have gone down in many other ways too. But, this scenario allows him an exit without being seen by anyone. JMO

I have been obsessed with the cemetery since day 1. Went I went to Delphi, to the trails, the bridge and the Cemetery. We parked down in the very back corner of the cemetery, by RL's property. Looking forward, into the woods, you would be looking towards the CS.
I walked back up to the road and looked towards the cemetery and could NOT see my car parked down in that corner. Also, while parked down in that corner, I looked up towards the main road and could not see the road or any vehicles driving by. It would be a good place to "hide" a vehicle for a quick getaway.
In the first picture--it is N end of bridge to Cemetery--you can clearly see you would NOT have to cross the creek to get there. We know the girls were at the S end and then over by cemetery, RL property, ACROSS the creek.
Pics 2,3,4 and 5 are pictures in the back corner of the Cemetery that butts up to RL property and one looking towards the other back corner.
There is a bit of a path( not dirt path, but just worn down) from corner that butts up to RL towards the CS area
6th is picture of cemetery, RL and trails

 

[Spartygirl]

This is very interesting. I had heard, what I thought, were rumors of BG being seen walking on 300 but never knew the details or that there were confirmed witnesses. I also didn’t know about the footprints through the cemetery though I did know LE had found footprints somewhere.
Yes, it makes you wonder why the new info about the CPS vehicle is relevant. Unless LE thinks the killer arrived in that vehicle but left the scene by walking, got a ride from a friend to come back and get it.
Very interesting.

Has this been verified by LE ?? About finding footprints ?? Do you have a Link ??
I have never seen this mentioned by LE so I am curious to read about it.
TIA

 

[Spartygirl]

this is actually a very good point. BG could not have done this crime on the trail side of the bridge - too many other people and no privacy.
This is why they think he is local and very familiar with that area - he knew how and where to get them so he could assure privacy and escape. He knew where the private property lines were and which side of the creek to find cover. If he had stayed on the bridge side of the creek, there are roads and houses and not as much tree cover. He knew exactly what, where, and how to do what he wanted to do. This was absolutely preplanned.

Pre-planned and possibly targeted. Which would/could explain why LE said there is no danger to the community. LE probably knows, by Libby's video that this was targeted and no threat elsewhere. JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I think there is probably specifics regarding this but the identity of the witnesses obviously needs protecting so it would never appear in a form that we could discuss openly, but my guess is there are 3 or 4 witnesses perhaps. MOO.

Correct..and I think a few of said witness' may have seen OBG while another few witness' may have seen NBG, hence the 2 different sketches.

 

[cody22]

I remember reading in an interview that searchers were following some footprints in a "muddy small trail section " shortly before the bodies were spotted....moo

 

[Thelastleg]

I have been obsessed with the cemetery since day 1. Went I went to Delphi, to the trails, the bridge and the Cemetery. We parked down in the very back corner of the cemetery, by RL's property. Looking forward, into the woods, you would be looking towards the CS.
I walked back up to the road and looked towards the cemetery and could NOT see my car parked down in that corner. Also, while parked down in that corner, I looked up towards the main road and could not see the road or any vehicles driving by. It would be a good place to "hide" a vehicle for a quick getaway.
In the first picture--it is N end of bridge to Cemetery--you can clearly see you would NOT have to cross the creek to get there. We know the girls were at the S end and then over by cemetery, RL property, ACROSS the creek.
Pics 2,3,4 and 5 are pictures in the back corner of the Cemetery that butts up to RL property and one looking towards the other back corner.
There is a bit of a path( not dirt path, but just worn down) from corner that butts up to RL towards the CS area
6th is picture of cemetery, RL and trails

Great information. What is your opinion on my thoughts on what happened. I think I have North and south ends straight in my head now. What if BG followed Abby and Libby to South End just to check no one was around. He made his way back to North End. They waited until he was out of sight and headed back across the bridge to get their ride home. BG was hiding and ambushed them. I see you have marked down the hill at the South End so I guess if this is where that was recorded then I'm completely wrong. I just can't get my head around him taking them all through the creek. It must have been very cold and BG doesn't look very agile.