Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[NJSleuth91]

DBM

 

[PrimeSuspect]

JMO -- borderline personality disorder and ADHD, with sociopathic tendencies.

AS did describe BS as a 'mini me', which seems he realized his son had mental health issues. I would say major depression could be one of them. jmo

 

[Runningforthewind]

If they were psychopaths why stop at three murders? There have been no reported murders following the 19th. They interacted with many people and had multiple opportunities but they didn't.

 

[zinny77]

I think there are a lot of things that point to Bryer possibly having mental health issues, that may have helped create this crisis situation.

I don't know if he was a psychopath, but quite possibly a sociopath, and/or bi-polar, much like his father was diagnosed with. JMO

I'm not gonna diagnose him with anything when we don't know much about the crimes, the motives behind it, haven't seen any evidence of anything and barely any information is known about Bryer or Kam.

Bryer might have needed help but I don't see anything that could make us say he decided to kill people and managed to convince Kam to follow him. Then choose to commit the crimes they did, which makes no sense.

At this point, it's just writing a personality for them (and totally ignore who they were) to make it fit into some theories.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I'm not gonna diagnose him with anything when we don't know much about the crimes, the motives behind it, haven't seen any evidence of anything and barely any information is known about Bryer or Kam.

Bryer might have needed help but I don't see anything that could make us say he decided to kill people and managed to convince Kam to follow him. Then choose to commit the crimes they did, which makes no sense.

At this point, it's just writing a personality for them (and totally ignore who they were) to make it fit into some theories.

I even openly admit that I may be wrong and maybe they are guilty. From what we know there are so many red flags, inconsistencies and things that just don't make sense. I've heard a few decent theories that could make sense, but all in all, I believe there is more chance they are innocent then they are guilty.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not gonna diagnose him with anything when we don't know much about the crimes, the motives behind it, haven't seen any evidence of anything and barely any information is known about Bryer or Kam.

Bryer might have needed help but I don't see anything that could make us say he decided to kill people and managed to convince Kam to follow him. Then choose to commit the crimes they did, which makes no sense.

At this point, it's just writing a personality for them (and totally ignore who they were) to make it fit into some theories.

They drove away from a crime scene in a dead man's car. We know that much.

They ran from police when they found out they were persons of interest.

They killed themselves instead of turning themselves in to explain what happened.

I think we know a lot about what they wanted to portray from the social media they left behind. It is a signature and is crafted strategically.

We have heard a lot from their childhood friends. And we got a glimpse of Bryer's fractured, contentious childhood.

 

[cherrytree9]

I'm not gonna diagnose him with anything when we don't know much about the crimes, the motives behind it, haven't seen any evidence of anything and barely any information is known about Bryer or Kam. <SBM>

Exactly, and this is what I keep coming back to. We know next to nothing about either about Bryer or Kam. Or the crimes for that matter. It's so weird seeing people try to diagnose them or psychoanalyse what they "must" have been thinking or feeling.

 

[zinny77]

They drove away from a crime scene in a dead man's car. We know that much.

They ran from police when they found out they were persons of interest

They killed themselves instead of turning themselves in to explain what happened.

I think we know a lot about what they wanted to portray from the social media they left behind. It is a signature and is crafted strategically.

We have heard a lot from their childhood friends. And we got a glimpse of Bryer's fractured, contentious childhood.

Correct me if I am wrong, but they were in the bush before they were even named person of interest? I am not saying they didn't run away and killed themselves. I think no one can deny something happened. But I have no clue what. I am not trying to argue for fun. I geniunely can't make sense of anything that happened.

Regarding their social media. They were gamers. There is a whole culture that goes with it. It might be a politically incorrect one, but it's there.

Yes, Bryer had a life and we have heard of a few people (mostly when he was what, 14 years old and unhappy at home). But not that many if you are trying to portray him as some sort of lunatic outcast. I have read of many people who said Bryer was nice, if a bit introverted. That Kam and Bryer used to be seen around town, going to hockey games and sometimes partying. They hd friends and acquaintances. That is now completely ignored and with more time passing, they are rewritten and every aspect of their personalities is twisted to make it into something that proves they were this or that.

I'm not saying they were perfect. I am not saying Bryer didn't need some sort of help. But I am scared what story could be made up from 14-17 years old me.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Exactly, and this is what I keep coming back to. We know next to nothing about either about Bryer or Kam. Or the crimes for that matter. It's so weird seeing people try to diagnose them or psychoanalyse what they "must" have been thinking or feeling.

It's par for the course of a site like this, scroll and roll.
We don't know anything about BS or KM or why they did what they're accused of but now, they're suddenly innocent of killing Leonard Dyck because 3 posters claim they were nice, friendly boys, just doesn't hold water either.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Correct me if I am wrong, but they were in the bush before they were even named person of interest? I am not saying they didn't run away and killed themselves. I think no one can deny something happened. But I have no clue what. I am not trying to argue for fun. I geniunely can't make sense of anything that happened.

Regarding their social media. They were gamers. There is a whole culture that goes with it. It might be a politically incorrect one, but it's there.

Yes, Bryer had a ****** life and we have heard of a few people (mostly when he was what, 14 years old and unhappy at home). But not that many if you are trying to portray him as some sort of lunatic outcast. I have read of many people who said Bryer was nice, if a bit introverted. That Kam and Bryer used to be seen around town, going to hockey games and sometimes partying. They hd friends and acquaintances. That is now completely ignored and with more time passing, they are rewritten and every aspect of their personalities is twisted to make it into something that proves they were this or that.

I'm not saying they were perfect. I am not saying Bryer didn't need some sort of help. But I am scared what story could be made up from 14-17 years old me.

You're saying they're innocent of the murder of Leonard Dyck. Where's your evidence besides your feelings?

 

[zinny77]

I said that?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I said that?

What's the issue, no 'negative' talk about Bryer and Kam because....? I just scroll and roll.

Edit: I'm sorry, I've confused your post with Runningforthewind.

 

[Sillybilly]

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[PrimeSuspect]

I even openly admit that I may be wrong and maybe they are guilty. From what we know there are so many red flags, inconsistencies and things that just don't make sense. I've heard a few decent theories that could make sense, but all in all, I believe there is more chance they are innocent then they are guilty.

The RCMP doesn't rely on chance, it's not a guessing game, there's evidence linking BS and KM to the murder of L Dyck.

 

[zinny77]

What's the issue, no 'negative' talk about Bryer and Kam because....? I just scroll and roll.

I don't get what you're trying to say.

I just don't have any idea what happened. I can't make sense of anything they did. They might not have left Port Alberni to kill. It might be a drug run, robbery, something else gone awfully wrong and it spiralled out of controle. Heck, I am even open to think someone else killed Chynna and Lucas and Leonard was an accident. I just have no idea.

<modsnip: Discuss/analyze the case and not other members.>

Being introverted is not a sign of anything, except that you are introverted. Bryer and Kam were not the lunatic outcast of port Alberni, many people in Port Alberni spoke highly of them. Yes I get that people will investigate on websleuth (duh) but it doesn't stop me to point out I disagree.

 

[katydid23]

Correct me if I am wrong, but they were in the bush before they were even named person of interest? I am not saying they didn't run away and killed themselves. I think no one can deny something happened. But I have no clue what. I am not trying to argue for fun. I geniunely can't make sense of anything that happened.

It is impossible to make sense of anything that happened, if the perpetrators were not making sense or being rational.

Regarding their social media. They were gamers. There is a whole culture that goes with it. It might be a politically incorrect one, but it's there.

Right. And the specific gaming platform they played on had issues.
From the Rolling Stone Article:

Social media accounts associated with two Canadian teenagers have been found to contain hints of far-right and white supremacist radicalization, with one of the teens posting photos posing with a Nazi armband.


While a potential motive is still unclear, the Toronto Globe and Mail reports that the suspects were linked to an account called Illusive Gameing [sic], which has pages on YouTube and the gaming platforms Twitch and Steam. A profile photo for the Illusive Gameing account features the Reichsadler, the heraldic eagle used as a nationalist symbol for Hitler’s Third Reich.

A Steam user who communicated with Schmegelsky on the platform also told the Globe and Mail that Schmegelsky was obsessed with Hitler and the Third Reich, and that he ultimately stopped communicating with him for this reason. The Steam user, whose identity was not revealed by the Globe and Mail, shared images dating from fall 2018 of what appears to be a swastika armband and a knife with the message “blud und uhre,” German for blood and honor; another photo appears to show Schmegelsky wearing a gas mask, while yet another shows the young man wearing military fatigues and carrying a pellet rifle.

An extremely popular gaming store and community platform, Steam has been criticizedfor adopting a fairly lax moderation policy, with some accusing the platform of turning a blind eye to hate speech and violent misogynist language on the platform. In late 2018, a Northern Virginia teen was accused of fatally shooting his girlfriend’s parents after they discovered pro-Nazi imagery, including an SS symbol and the quote “National socialism will prevail,” on his Steam profile. The story drew attention to Valve’s relatively lax policies, as did the platform hosting a game called Rape Day, in which players were able to stalk and rape women. (Steam pulled the game following intense media criticism.)
Alleged Teen Killers Reportedly Obsessed With Hitler, Putin, Trump

Yes, Bryer had a ****** life and we have heard of a few people (mostly when he was what, 14 years old and unhappy at home). But not that many if you are trying to portray him as some sort of lunatic outcast. I have read of many people who said Bryer was nice, if a bit introverted. That Kam and Bryer used to be seen around town, going to hockey games and sometimes partying. They hd friends and acquaintances. That is now completely ignored and with more time passing, they are rewritten and every aspect of their personalities is twisted to make it into something that proves they were this or that.

I'm not saying they were perfect. I am not saying Bryer didn't need some sort of help. But I am scared what story could be made up from 14-17 years old me.

Bryer's father had a long criminal history which included domestic violence and criminal harassment for threats, which put him in jail a couple times.

B.C. murder suspect’s father reveals details of troubled life in book
It’s unclear whether his ex-wife was the target of the harassment in each case, but Schmegelsky said in an interview that at least some of the charges were filed because the boy’s mother feared he would murder her, saying he was schizophrenic and was not taking his medication. He denies these allegations.

Schmegelsky writes in the book that a forensic psychologist diagnosed him as “delusional,” a conclusion he disagreed with. His lawyer described him as “autistic” at one point, he writes, and he was ordered to attend a crisis counselling centre but couldn’t afford to attend for very long as it wasn’t a government program.


Bryer's father had mental health issues and it is not a stretch, given the circumstances, that his son may have inherited some of the same issues. JMO

I don't see this description of Bryer, as being troubled and possibly dangerous, as something 'just made up' out of the blue. I think there are a lot of things which point to that, and early signs which could be clues.

In his case we have both Nature and Nurture as possible determining factors. Genetics passed from his father and severe stress passed on from his troubled childhood.

Then we see the clues and signs when we see pictures of him wearing a swastika armband and putting a gun into his mouth.

I know a lot of gamers. My son played a lot of video games, as he was growing up. But as far as I know he never posted pix of himself posting a gun at his own head, while dressed as a Nazi.

 

[zinny77]

In his case we have both Nature and Nurture as possible determining factors. Genetics passed from his father and severe stress passed on from his troubled childhood.

Then we see the clues and signs when we see pictures of him wearing a swastika armband and putting a gun into his mouth.

I know a lot of gamers. My son played a lot of video games, as he was growing up. But as far as I know he never posted pix of himself posting a gun at his own head, while dressed as a Nazi.

Fait enough.

But I am surprised that someone so mentally ill and disturbed would manage to only put 3 or 4 questionable (really, REALLY questionable, I'll admit) pictures of himself on social media and offend 3 or 4 people in the span of 4 or 5 years. And manage to get many gamer friends and people in real life describe him as positively as they did (and there are many people, they are just being erased when people describe Bryer's personality on here and he just become a loner with no friends or social interraction who only spoke to yell his love of Hitler. Which doesn't seem to be true when you read what people thought of him JMO).

I would think his social media and social life would be full to the brim of people describing their bad experiences with Bryer. But it isn't the case. Obviously, people could have just decided not to speak publicly, but same could be said about people being scared to speak positively of him publicly (more likely actually). And we can't really presume something if it isn't being said.

So, IMO, Bryer was nothing like I see him described here or in the media . I don't see any signs pointing to sociopath, psychopath or resentful loner JMO. A teenager who might have need a talk about what is appropriate or not. someone that might have need help and guidance. Sure. But not the anti social hermit with no social skills he is being made to be JMO

 

[katydid23]

Fait enough.

But I am surprised that someone so mentally ill and disturbed would manage to only put 3 or 4 questionable (really, REALLY questionable, I'll admit) pictures of himself on social media and offend 3 or 4 people in the span of 4 or 5 years. And manage to get many gamer friends and people in real life describe him as positively as they did (and there are many people, they are just being erased when people describe Bryer's personality on here and he just become a loner with no friends or social interraction who only spoke to yell his love of Hitler. Which doesn't seem to be true when you read what people thought of him JMO).

I would think his social media and social life would be full to the brim of people describing their bad experiences with Bryer. But it isn't the case. Obviously, people could have just decided not to speak publicly, but same could be said about people being scared to speak positively of him publicly (more likely actually). And we can't really presume something if it isn't being said.

So, IMO, Bryer was nothing like I see him described here or in the media . I don't see any signs pointing to sociopath, psychopath or resentful loner JMO. A teenager who might have need a talk about what is appropriate or not soneone that might have need help and guidance. Sure. But not the anti social hermit with no social skills he is being made to be JMO

If I look at the backgrounds of teen killers in other cases, like school shooters, or family annihilators, they are described very similar to what we know about these two...

---they were quiet but polite
---introverted but nice enough
---didn't have many close friends but did have acquaintances
---didnt have many stable, long lasting romantic relationships
---were kind of lone wolves, but had online social interactions
---did not have many academic or career successes
---their families did not have a full scope of their private lives

 

[zinny77]

---they were quiet but polite
---introverted but nice enough
---didn't have many close friends but did have acquaintances
---didnt have many stable, long lasting romantic relationships
---were kind of lone wolves, but had online social interactions
---did not have many academic or career successes
---their families did not have a full scope of their private lives

That literally describes 80 to 90 percent of kids in high school though...

Also, my understanding of how other teen killers were perceived before their crime differs from yours. I haven't studied it in depth I must say, but in none of the other cases did it came as such an out of the blue shock for the people around them.

You might find an example out there, but at the end of the day, their crime doesn't fit any teenage killer one (school shooting, mass shooting, crime in their hometown, killing a member of their family- when it is said Bryer was fantasising about it), it doesn't fit a serial killer profile, a spree killing profile. I don't see any signs of a psychopath/folower duo. I don't even see any white incel angry guys signs.

Had Bryer taken a gun and started to shoot people in his town, I wouldn't even give it a second thought to be honest. But that is not what happened. So I am utterly confused.

 

[Trooper]

Nobody saw it coming from these nice young teenagers, either, … but there you go...