A roving night watch doesn't constantly walk the boat -- especially a small boat like this one. He or she would have checked things on a schedule, which sounds like was done given the short time between the last check of the galley area and the fire.
GUILTY CA - Boat fire near Santa Cruz Island; 34 missing, Sept 2019 *captain charged*
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To all the people that cant fathom a 10 year old could not commit murder.
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A roving night watch doesn't constantly walk the boat -- especially a small boat like this one. He or she would have checked things on a schedule, which sounds like was done given the short time between the last check of the galley area and the fire.
Eloise
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but they're not allowed to sleep, right? if they are, what's the point of the nightwatch?
tnhybrid
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One telling fact to me: NObody made it out of that passenger bunk, even the person sleeping directly beneath the emergency hatch. This fire likely went up in minutes, maybe seconds. What an unimaginable tragedy.
As a refresher lately I watched video of the Station fire from 2003, one of the most deadly nightclub fires in history. It's amazing how fast smoke in particular can spread. Just a reminder: always drop to your knees and crawl if you're faced with such a situation.
As a refresher lately I watched video of the Station fire from 2003, one of the most deadly nightclub fires in history. It's amazing how fast smoke in particular can spread. Just a reminder: always drop to your knees and crawl if you're faced with such a situation.
BeachSky
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According to this...the boat was not at full capacity
Which in itself is even more frightening
Perhaps they left that bunk open
Surviving crew members say boat fire was too intense to save any passengers
JMO
Just published......Crew member is suing the owner of the ship!! This brings up really interesting questions: Does "maritime law" supersede the right of an employee to have a safe working environment? Improper training? Disability? Work /stress related health issues? etc.
California boat fire: Surviving crew member sues Conception's owners
"
Categories: News, KCALTV
Ryan Sims says in a lawsuit that he was inadequately trained and that the ship did not follow safety measures. Crystal Cruz reports.
California boat fire: Surviving crew member sues Conception's owners
"
Categories: News, KCALTV
Ryan Sims says in a lawsuit that he was inadequately trained and that the ship did not follow safety measures. Crystal Cruz reports.
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I am attaching the link to a copy of the actual lawsuit filed. It is long (10 pages) as a much as I get confused with "legalese" it was fascinating to read. 18+ claims of negligence (all listed) and about 15 items/claims of "unseaworthiness" (yep, it really is a word) of the vessel, etc. It wasn't difficult to understand.....but it was also incredibly sad, too.
It also explains some of the "seaman rights"... kind of like a worker's comp claim. Anyway, take a few minutes to read... each reader will probably come away with differing interpretations. (Yes, I know anyone can file a law suit and these are just "claims" that can/will or be proven/dis-proven....FYI.) In any case, the families will be following closely.
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/...fs-original-complaint-for-damages-9.12.19.pdf
It also explains some of the "seaman rights"... kind of like a worker's comp claim. Anyway, take a few minutes to read... each reader will probably come away with differing interpretations. (Yes, I know anyone can file a law suit and these are just "claims" that can/will or be proven/dis-proven....FYI.) In any case, the families will be following closely.
https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/...fs-original-complaint-for-damages-9.12.19.pdf
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BeachSky
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Perhaps he has not the funds (or was not offered funds by TA) that he feels he needs. Just the horror not only of almost dying, but knowing all those divers you spent the last few days with died so horrifically and you could do nothing.
This will prob be tied up for years with ALL the lawsuits.
JMO
BeachSky
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Jones Act Maritime Law
Section 33 of the Jones Act provides seamen with the right to sue their employers for compensation if they are injured during the course of their employment. This is critical for injured seamen, since they are not entitled to file for workers’ compensation.
Section 33 of the Jones Act provides seamen with the right to sue their employers for compensation if they are injured during the course of their employment. This is critical for injured seamen, since they are not entitled to file for workers’ compensation.
Hraefn
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O/T warning: do not watch the Station night club video if you are at all sensitive or afraid of fires. I've seen some absolutely horrific videos but nothing upset me even a fraction as much as that video did. It is the thing of nightmares.
HRAEFN....NOT O/T at all! I just tried to watch the video but was so overwhelmed by the screams of fear and suffering....and couldn't get past the first one minute 30 seconds, ugh. Yes, I am afraid of fires, and very aware of the total devastation of a fast moving fire.
Hmm, but I see things a little differently (now) in that all the people at the "concert venue" were awake, socializing, listening to music, (I even heard a smoke alarm in the beginning of the video) and there appears to be more than one point of egress.....and yet, the aftermath was still a nightmare.
As I stated earlier, I see things differently now. You are a good sleuth... thank you. IQ
California boat fire: Conception wasn't built to charge dozens of phones and cameras. Did this cause the blaze?
"When the Conception first hit the water in the early 1980s, the personal electronics revolution was decades away. ...
...But when the vessel set off decades later ... they plugged their equipment into a series of outlets concealed in the back of foam-filled L-shaped benches in the ship’s galley. ...
...Those outlets are now the focus of an intense investigation ..."
"When the Conception first hit the water in the early 1980s, the personal electronics revolution was decades away. ...
...But when the vessel set off decades later ... they plugged their equipment into a series of outlets concealed in the back of foam-filled L-shaped benches in the ship’s galley. ...
...Those outlets are now the focus of an intense investigation ..."
drama_farmer
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CRBM (colored red by me) and snipped
Foam filled benches. Interesting focus. Probably just a coincidence, but the horrific fire at the Station Nightclub began when onstage pyrotechnics ignited the foam placed around the stage area. The foam was installed to address noise complaints made by folks living in the adjacent neighborhood. However, it was not the type of soundproofing foam that belonged in that setting. It was incredibly flammable.
Here's the official report (pdf) by Homeland Security. It is a rather large PDF file: 21 MB
My guess is that the lawsuits will end relatively quickly as company's insurance is probably fairly limited and the company does not really have alot of assets in the true sense of the word. This could well lead to fast settlements.
tnhybrid
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Agree a million percent that Station Fire footage is absolutely wrenching. However: if you can stomach it, it's also very informative - how fast fire and thick smoke can spread, how seriously everyone should take paying attention to exits, and also, my personal takeaway: how there was visibly breathable air near the floor after the place turned into a conflagration. Seriously, get on your knees and crawl if you're ever in a smoke-filled environment.
On another personal note: I'm a scuba person who's been on a lot of liveaboards. It'll be interesting to see what changes come to the industry as a result of this heartbreaking event. If these trips are made more safe, at least these poor people won't have died entirely for nothing.
Personally, I'll never book another trip without a porthole or exit out of my specific cabin. Have already bought some fireproof bags for battery charging.
On another personal note: I'm a scuba person who's been on a lot of liveaboards. It'll be interesting to see what changes come to the industry as a result of this heartbreaking event. If these trips are made more safe, at least these poor people won't have died entirely for nothing.
Personally, I'll never book another trip without a porthole or exit out of my specific cabin. Have already bought some fireproof bags for battery charging.
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margarita25
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(Ugh, the Great White concert...that was so bad
I thought people would never do pyrotechnics at their shows again after that but it seems they still do...supposedly they do it more safely nowadays, idk moo...)
Good catch.
Additionally re: the Station Fire:
“The acoustic foam was installed in two layers, with highly flammable urethane foam above polyethylene foam, the latter being difficult to ignite but releasing much more heat once ignited by the less dense urethane. Burning polyurethane foam instantly develops opaque, dark smoke along with deadly carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide gas. Inhaling this smoke only 2–3 times would cause rapid loss of consciousness and, eventually, death by internal suffocation.“
The Station nightclub fire - Wikipedia
(ETA / OT: Reading more about the Station Fire, I came across this which I thought you guys may find heartwarming. It’s about the son of the guitarist, Ty Longley, who died in the fire:
“Longley left behind Heidi (Peralta) Longley, who was 3 months pregnant with the couple's first child.[1] Their son Acey Ty Christopher Longley was born on August 12, 2003.[2][3] His son Acey is also a musician and runs a charity for hospitalized children in his father's memory. In 2013 the American Red Cross Chicago named Acey their Youth Good Samaritan Hero and the Chicago Tribune named Acey one of their most inspiring stories of the year 2012.[1]“
Ty Longley - Wikipedia
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Son of Great White guitarist cheers sick children to honor his dad )
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TNHYBRID Thank you so much for being upfront about the changes you are making as a result of this unfathomable tragedy. I think you have just touched the "tip of the iceberg" on many changes/inspections& updating of passenger vessels that will be a result.
I'm intrigued with the "fireproof bags for battery charging." That is great for you, but what if no one else on the trip uses them? How much would it cost to have the electrical systems updated by a "certified marine electrician?" (The cost may be high...but safety is most important.) Besides the normal electric wiring/power use of running a 30 year old ship, now add today's usage for 33 passengers with cell phones, ipads, laptops, GP cameras, radios, stereo CD players etc.... no telling how many used lithium ion batteries. (or a cruise liner with 2000 passengers ? Any recent incidences?) But....
"The vibration, pounding, salty air, engine-space heat, exposure to chemicals and other rigors of the marine environment put a lot of pressure on the wires that are the central nervous system of any modern boat. In fact, more than half (55 percent) of fires investigated by BoatU.S. were found to have been caused by wiring and electrical problems (with wire chafing found as the most common problem)."
Boat Electrical System Safety Tips
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BeachSky
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We can confirm that Ryan Sims was employed as a first galley cook and served 18 days with Truth Aquatics on five trips.
BBM
BBM
Kubirai
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Let's assume X served as a cook in 5 separate 3-day trips. By the end of first day of first trip, X should have learned about the escape hatch, fire extinguishers, smoke and heat detectors.
X should have become quite familiar with all propane fixtures in the galley, the deck BBQ, the fire hose, by the end of first trip.
Assume Y is supposed to make sure that X got all those training. Who and where is Y? Truth Acquatics owner at Santa Barbara, with empty boat parked at the marina?
tnhybrid
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If I had to guess, many dive operations are making changes to charging of items on board as we speak - as in, strict language about what can be plugged in where, and even removal of electrical ports in spots other than those easy to monitor. Probably everyone will be required to unplug overnight. MOO but generally the dive community is pretty responsible and responsive to tragedies like this one.
margarita25
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(O/T, thank you for the warning and you are right. Horrific. While I clearly remembered that event, I still haaaad to go down the full rabbit hole after you guys mentioned it here. I have since obsessively studied the case inside and out for 2 days straight now. I have updated the thread with many many references and content. I think it’s very important that everyone knows what happened that day and that nobody forgets about that fire. It’s important that the Station Fire remain fresh in our minds in order that required safety measures continue to be implemented and enforced. I hope to God no clubs are still using that foam as soundproofing and I hope that all business have their sprinklers, etc. Also I’ve posted a Gamma model simulation video over there which also touches on the behavior models, etc that occur during such an event. I am interested in approaching that model as related to the chaos that that happens during our ever increasing mass shootings.
Thread Link:
GUILTY - RI - The Station Nightclub Fire, 100 dead at Great White concert, 20 Feb 2003 )
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