AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #3

[MsBetsy]

There are other articles where she says they had no relationship. So she kind of says somewhat contradictory things to different reporters, or is quoted incorrectly.

She may have been referring to the child and the father, since she said he was not involved in her life.
Some of those articles are poorly written.

 

[Ravenesque]

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.
Given this revelation, I'd say there is a very good chance this little sweetie pie is in Mexico. At least I hope so, as the alternative is very grim.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Boy I hope you are right

 

[jjenny]

Do we know for a fact that he was a young child as well? I haven’t seen anything in MSM about that. IMO until LE names the dad a suspect he is a victim. We can all speculate on what did or didn’t happen between them but if this was a random stranger abduction does any of that matter? JMO

We don't really know what exactly it is at the moment, do we?

 

[claudianunes]

Do we know for a fact that he was a young child as well? I haven’t seen anything in MSM about that. IMO until LE names the dad a suspect he is a victim. We can all speculate on what did or didn’t happen between them but if this was a random stranger abduction does any of that matter? JMO

No, it doesn't.

 

[book-thinker]

Spanish speaking families are close knit, if a family member is unable to care or raise a child that care
and support goes to either a grandmother or a aunt. This is exactly what is happening in this case. You have a
14 year old girl that's a child herself giving birth to a baby girl.
The grandmother is the caregiver of Noema's children, a 3 year old and 5 year old. I wonder if Noema was offered parenting classes. It's confusing if the grandmother has legal custody or a verbal arrangement. With legal child custody cases the courts normally get involved. Since Noema is nether working or attending school she would be unable to provide finance support to the grandmother for the care of the children.
This family is devastated, I can't image the heartache this family is going through. I pray Dulce is found safe.

 

[MsMarple]

This is looking more and more like a stranger abduction with the other possibility that the perp is a "mild" acquaintance of the family - IOW someone they don't know well other than an occasional interaction and so wouldn't suspect him. Someone from their neighborhood or church for example. MOO.

Unless LE and the FBI are holding back on major implications while gathering evidence. But going by the mother's statements in msm I don't think she's savvy enough to fool LE nor is she trying to mislead them. We don't know her level of education but she appears a bit naive in her statements. To me anyway she seems to be quite forthcoming.

Most of all though I'm not seeing the ubiquitous crocodile tears/ howling we so often see in missing cases. JMO.

 

[Peppery]

So Dulce’s mom and dad share the Perez surname but she does not. I know the Hispanic culture has a different tradition than the more common in the US ‘child gets the fathers surname’. Could her parents have been married at some point?

 

[jjenny]

Dulce's mom got the Perez surname from her own parents, I presume, considering they have it. Obviously she wasn't married to Dulce's father at any point of time considering they didn't even have a relationship, and he originally didn't even believe Dulce was his daughter, and she was only 14 when she gave birth.

 

[zecats]

Some interesting points. If posted already, apologies for repeat. BBM

Investigators remain hopeful missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez is still alive

"When Dulce was born in 2014, Edgar Perez didn’t believe he was the father, Alavez Perez said this week. When he saw the child and noticed a resemblance, his feelings changed. When she was 1 or 2 years old, he expressed his intention to seek custody of the girl, Alavez Perez said, but added that he never followed through on it.

“He never took us to court,” she said.

Perez later returned to Mexico, where he intended to go to college in order to provide a better life for his daughter, Alavez Perez said, though she added that she had also been told he was deported from the United States.

Alavez Perez said that her kids live with her parents in Bridgeton, while she lives in a nearby apartment. She also said she shares joint custody of Dulce with her mom."

 

[zecats]

Mexican consulate following Bridgeton girl's disappearance

"The Consulate of Mexico in Philadelphia has contacted the family of a 5-year-old Bridgeton girl who went missing here on Sept. 16 but is not participating in the investigation, Acting Consul Rocio Vazquez said on Wednesday.

Vazquez said the girl’s mother and grandmother were interviewed by phone several days after Dulce Maria Alavez was reported missing. Bridgeton has a large population of Mexicans and the consulate maintains contacts in the community."

“The grandparents, from what we understand, are Mexican,” Vazquez told The Daily Journal. “However, the mother and the little girl both were born here in the United States. They have the right to Mexican citizenship, but they have not registered.”

 

[NoSI]

I'd say it's pretty ideal given the situation. Maybe she felt that the safest place for her children were with her parents while she worked on herself and tried to get clean and put her chemical dependencies behind her. It's definitely a more ideal situation than a single mother with drug issues who has no options other than living on the street with young children.

Could not agree more! Great post!

 

[Angleterre]

A vacuum of information always leads to speculation. If you manage the speculation in a productive way (time lines, post-it notes with string, white boards, etc), it leads to an organized search for clues. It's been like this for over 50 years that I have been doing this. Looks to me that due to the extreme nature of the case, the media attention and multiple agencies, someone is jumping the gun with what is released to the media, then has to retract it. I have seen all manner of family, friend and stranger abductions. Appears that LE is still not sure which it is, or is working in the background to figure it out and keeping a lid on it is proving difficult. Stranger abductions are the most difficult, followed by hired abductors from extended family/relatives. Not saying it is either, just that those potentials exist. What I find curious is that the nations leading footprint trackers are in NJ, and as far as I can tell, none of them were called in to look at the crime scene before a million people tromped all over the evidence. Opportunity lost. Happens more often then not sad to say. As occurred in the Jacob Wetterling case, the foot prints and tire prints told the entire story.

One note I will make, in internet chat rooms such as this, it is easy to misconstrue a persons comments as some folks do not translate well from thought to text. Be understanding to each other and work together. Share ideas. If possible, put boots on the ground to look the area over. Take pictures to help others understand the topography. The timeline is excellent! Now start digging into the details. Why is the report of an actor waving Dulce over just now surfacing? Was the boy not interviewed by a professional?

Regarding your last comment about the information only coming out now could be because when you need to get a very young child to give an accurate account of what happened, they are too young to understand that what they say is taken as fact so there are ways in which young children need to be interviewed and this can take days if not longer because there are all sorts of protocols to follow to ensure the child’s welfare and the accuracy of the information . Plus the abstracting of that information from a very young child is done in a very specific way over bite sized time period s
As a senior investigating officer in the UK LE that is how it works here and in my experience it’s not unusual for details to come out weeks after. We are putting our adults head with adult thoughts and trying to ascertain why the child has only come forward with this information now but it is because it’s a child and they and their minds work differently . Hope that makes sense .

 

[Angleterre]

Trackergd
Thank you so much for coming onto this thread and sharing lots of very interesting and informative information about a variety of subjects to do with your work and experience as SAR. I would love to have an in-depth discussion with you about your fascinating line of work.
I am aware of investigative tools because I was a Senior Investigative Officer ( SIO) in charge of teams of Detectives investigating serious crime in the UK however, although I have used ( and in fact brought up Police puppy dogs before they go to be trained alongside having the pleasure of living with two fully trained Police German a Shepherd GSD’s as my hubby was a handler ), I was unaware of the acute differences between SAR trained and LE trained etc
So I thank you for joining us and for your contributions thus far and look forward to hearing more from you. Regards .

 

[dotr]

Amber Alert updates: FBI fields hundreds of tips as search for missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez continues
#FBI is asking the public to help #findDulce. Anyone who has images or video taken at the city park on September 16, 2019 can upload them here: http://www.fbi.gov/alavez

 

[borndem]

This is looking more and more like a stranger abduction with the other possibility that the perp is a "mild" acquaintance of the family - IOW someone they don't know well other than an occasional interaction and so wouldn't suspect him. Someone from their neighborhood or church for example. MOO.

Unless LE and the FBI are holding back on major implications while gathering evidence. But going by the mother's statements in msm I don't think she's savvy enough to fool LE nor is she trying to mislead them. We don't know her level of education but she appears a bit naive in her statements. To me anyway she seems to be quite forthcoming.

Most of all though I'm not seeing the ubiquitous crocodile tears/ howling we so often see in missing cases. JMO.

bbm
I agree -- I've thought so since the beginning. I think somebody saw that pretty little girl, saw no adult around, possibly moved his vehicle to a place that was good for making a quick getaway, checked again, saw no adults, and coaxed her somehow, and stole her off that playground. Or, as you suggested, @MsMarple, someone who had noticed her at her home, etc., and followed them to the park that day. Possibly a RSO or SO, or someone with a child *advertiser censored* connection.
Yes, I think this one is real, and it scares me for that little girl and her mom and her little brother. And if the kidnapper is like so many, little Dulce is no longer alive, and her body is who-knows-where.

I just keep hoping that somebody saw something that will turn this thing around, at least WRT finding Dulce, alive or dead, a solid capture and proper punishment.

 

[katydid23]

bbm
I agree -- I've thought so since the beginning. I think somebody saw that pretty little girl, saw no adult around, possibly moved his vehicle to a place that was good for making a quick getaway, checked again, saw no adults, and coaxed her somehow, and stole her off that playground. Or, as you suggested, @MsMarple, someone who had noticed her at her home, etc., and followed them to the park that day. Possibly a RSO or SO, or someone with a child *advertiser censored* connection.
Yes, I think this one is real, and it scares me for that little girl and her mom and her little brother. And if the kidnapper is like so many, little Dulce is no longer alive, and her body is who-knows-where.

I just keep hoping that somebody saw something that will turn this thing around, at least WRT finding Dulce, alive or dead, a solid capture and proper punishment.

I wish I could disagree. I really wanted to believe that it was a child custody issue and someone from the father's side of the family took her.

But I think we would have found that out by now.

 

[JerzeyGirl]

I hate to say this but does the FBI run facial recognition through the dark web to see if missing kids show up on child *advertiser censored* sites? If so when do they do that or is it just something they do on tv shows?

I assume they wouldn’t release that information if they found it. Is that maybe a reason they’ve been so quiet?

 

[Iva]

Not to derail any discussions going on at the moment, but I just wanted to take a second and say thank you to everyone who is keeping their thoughts and minds on this case and doing it so respectfully. Websleuths is just about the only place on the internet where these types of cases are able to be discussed appropriately.

I say this because I made the mistake of joining some social media groups about this case (should have learned my lesson by now with how bad things got in some groups about other cases I've followed, but alas curiosity and wanting to know the latest details ASAP got the best of me again) and some of the things being shared there are so awful and disrespectful, things that truly unfathomably upset me that I can't believe people think are okay to discuss or to put forth out there for everyone to see. I can't even get into it because it breaks TOS, but I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here who always abide by and enforce the level of respect and decency these situations call for.

 

[book-thinker]

Not to derail any discussions going on at the moment, but I just wanted to take a second and say thank you to everyone who is keeping their thoughts and minds on this case and doing it so respectfully. Websleuths is just about the only place on the internet where these types of cases are able to be discussed appropriately.

I say this because I made the mistake of joining some social media groups about this case (should have learned my lesson by now with how bad things got in some groups about other cases I've followed, but alas curiosity and wanting to know the latest details ASAP got the best of me again) and some of the things being shared there are so awful and disrespectful, things that truly unfathomably upset me that I can't believe people think are okay to discuss or to put forth out there for everyone to see. I can't even get into it because it breaks TOS, but I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here who always abide by and enforce the level of respect and decency these situations call for.[/QUOTE
Welcome to Websleuths Iva!

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Thank you for posting this. I was looking for it last night and couldn’t find. I knew that I had read it but couldn’t restate.

Some interesting points. If posted already, apologies for repeat. BBM

Investigators remain hopeful missing 5-year-old Dulce Alavez is still alive

"When Dulce was born in 2014, Edgar Perez didn’t believe he was the father, Alavez Perez said this week. When he saw the child and noticed a resemblance, his feelings changed. When she was 1 or 2 years old, he expressed his intention to seek custody of the girl, Alavez Perez said, but added that he never followed through on it.

“He never took us to court,” she said.

Perez later returned to Mexico, where he intended to go to college in order to provide a better life for his daughter, Alavez Perez said, though she added that she had also been told he was deported from the United States.

Alavez Perez said that her kids live with her parents in Bridgeton, while she lives in a nearby apartment. She also said she shares joint custody of Dulce with her mom."