Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[Moonracer]

5’6’’ to 5’ 10’’
180-220 pounds

I don’t see how BG could be exceptionally thin. JMO.

Watch him walk.

 

[PezCandy]

He could be thin for all we know, he could be in layers considering it was February and if you’re gonna be out for awhile you would usually bundle up. I understand that it was a warmer day but people will still bundle up especially if you might be out for awhile.

Jmo imo speculation moo etc

 

[MJPeony]

Watch him walk.

Yeah I know what you mean- his legs look like little sticks. But going by LE’s “stats” on his height and weight, extremely thin wouldn’t add up.

HOWEVER, his legs do appear thin, so it’s possible LE just hasn’t given an accurate height/weight description. One of my POI’s doesn’t fit the specs LE gave, so I’m open to possibility LE doesn’t have it just right.

MOO

 

[MingyMoo]

OK So I am sorry I think this. My opinion still hasn't changed I still think the young ladies were in the wrong place at the wrong time. What I can't fathom is how on earth did one person. Get two teenage girls away from a derelict bridge, down a steep hill across a Creak then murder them without any commotion or noise. I still think there is more than one person involved and I still think the wrong time wrong place and the perpetrator /s thought the girls saw a clandestine, inappropriate meeting between people. I don't think they even realised and carried their day on. Who on earth got so close LE know the suspect's eyes weren't blue hells bells that's one close encounter for anyone to be able to say that with confidence. This case baffles and upsets me beyond words there is no logic in it
At a total loss
MngyMoo

 

[Charlot123]

It’s just so strange. I was thinking that it could be a possibility especially with how much LE was pressing that BG is most likely local. A lot of transients will go to the hidden areas they know or are used too. Whole thing is just chilling. :/

Can be a transient, of course, but doesn't feel so.

 

[MingyMoo]

As a matter of interest, Is the Look Outpost/hunting post visible to where the girls were found. Does anyone know?

 

[Charlot123]

Even cases with weird details that go unsolved for a long time often end up simple sexually motivated crimes or whatever. When we follow weird cases for ages without resolution we naturally start thinking it's something "out there" but the majority of the time it's not, there's often just some roadblock preventing LE from solving it.
I'd also say sexually motivated is more likely than "not quite right in his head" although they aren't mutually exclusive of course.

BBM. Agree that there probably some roadblock.​

MOO - the roadblock might be some oddity, or unwillingness of the LE to think outside the box, or simply sloppy work of certain experts.

Take the case of the Soviet SK Andrey Chikatilo. I am not linking the case because of how creepy it was. But Chicatilo was caught once and let go as his blood group (A) did not match the sperm type (AB).

From a blog:

"With each body, the forensic evidence mounted, and police were convinced that the killer had the blood type AB, as evidenced by the semen samples collected from a number of crime scenes."

"What was not realized at the time was that Chikatilo's actual blood type, type A, was different to the type found in his other bodily fluids (type AB), as he was a member of a minority group known as "non-secretors", whose blood type cannot be inferred by anything other than a blood sample. As police only had a sample of semen, and not blood, from the crime scenes, Chikatilo was able to escape suspicion of murder. Today's sophisticated DNA techniques are not subject to the same fallibility."

So either it was a true anomaly, or (more likely) the mistake was made when determining his blood/body fluids group. In contrast to what the blogger says, "Non-secretors" merely would not secrete blood antigens into bodily fluids, and a non-secretor with type A blood group would probably have type 0 seminal fluid, not AB, as the SK allegedly had. So, somewhere along the line, the mistake must have been made.

I suspect that in the Delphi case, the roadblock is the DNA. Because it seems to exist and can rule out the suspects, merely can not rule them in. It means, either extremely contaminated crime scene with multiple profiles, or somehow that DNA was mishandled, but not completely.

I am wondering if in fact it is a good DNA, but with something as simple as broken chain of custody, hence, inadmissible in court.

The Importance of Chain of Custody for Legal Proceedings - Superior Bag

(If this is the case, I can only sympathize with LE - lapses happen. But at least they still can use it internally and eventually, find the perpetrator, at least know who he is).

 

[BNA]

Yeah I know what you mean- his legs look like little sticks. But going by LE’s “stats” on his height and weight, extremely thin wouldn’t add up.

HOWEVER, his legs do appear thin, so it’s possible LE just hasn’t given an accurate height/weight description. One of my POI’s doesn’t fit the specs LE gave, so I’m open to possibility LE doesn’t have it just right.

MOO

Or, could be an optical illusion.....say...if his body right above his legs is larger than average.

 

[moonlessnight]

yup, he is skinny. narrow hips too. and taller than he appears. his head is down and forward, masking a potentially long neck and lessening his height. people who are hypermobile can manipulate their joints, such as in being "double jointed" (which is not a true diagnosis) but are kind of catlike in how they can adjust their body position more than the average person.

I think he is EXCEPTIONALLY thin. Noticeable immediately when not disguised. Very stick-thin legs.

 

[moonlessnight]

I think the height/weight estimates are going off the first sketch, when they thought they knew who the suspect was, and he was stocky.

5’6’’ to 5’ 10’’
180-220 pounds

I don’t see how BG could be exceptionally thin. JMO.

 

[moonlessnight]

that's one of the most interesting things about this case. there is something about his face, other than not being well visualized in the video, that is not truly representative of his normal appearance. but his stance - I think thumbs hooked in jeans pockets with fingers splayed, pointed, and maybe moving in various combinations of positions is a key point here. high lifting of the knees is another...

Did I really hear him say if you took off the head you'd know the body? Uncle, friend, co-worker etc etc?? Makes me think the sketch is not as important as recognizing the rest of the body.

 

[Charlot123]

yup, he is skinny. narrow hips too. and taller than he appears. his head is down and forward, masking a potentially long neck and lessening his height. people who are hypermobile can manipulate their joints, such as in being "double jointed" (which is not a true diagnosis) but are kind of catlike in how they can adjust their body position more than the average person.

I can not comment on his thinness, he looks normal to me, but if you are right, can it be the case of Marfan syndrome?
If LE have his DNA, testing for that gene (cheap today) might be interesting in terms of how the perp might look.
BTW, not all Marfans are super tall, but they have distinctive look. 25% are a new mutation, not running in the family.

 

[tresir2012]

BBM. Agree that there probably some roadblock.​

MOO - the roadblock might be some oddity, or unwillingness of the LE to think outside the box, or simply sloppy work of certain experts.

Take the case of the Soviet SK Andrey Chikatilo. I am not linking the case because of how creepy it was. But Chicatilo was caught once and let go as his blood group (A) did not match the sperm type (AB).

From a blog:

"With each body, the forensic evidence mounted, and police were convinced that the killer had the blood type AB, as evidenced by the semen samples collected from a number of crime scenes."

"What was not realized at the time was that Chikatilo's actual blood type, type A, was different to the type found in his other bodily fluids (type AB), as he was a member of a minority group known as "non-secretors", whose blood type cannot be inferred by anything other than a blood sample. As police only had a sample of semen, and not blood, from the crime scenes, Chikatilo was able to escape suspicion of murder. Today's sophisticated DNA techniques are not subject to the same fallibility."

So either it was a true anomaly, or (more likely) the mistake was made when determining his blood/body fluids group. In contrast to what the blogger says, "Non-secretors" merely would not secrete blood antigens into bodily fluids, and a non-secretor with type A blood group would probably have type 0 seminal fluid, not AB, as the SK allegedly had. So, somewhere along the line, the mistake must have been made.

I suspect that in the Delphi case, the roadblock is the DNA. Because it seems to exist and can rule out the suspects, merely can not rule them in. It means, either extremely contaminated crime scene with multiple profiles, or somehow that DNA was mishandled, but not completely.

I am wondering if in fact it is a good DNA, but with something as simple as broken chain of custody, hence, inadmissible in court.

The Importance of Chain of Custody for Legal Proceedings - Superior Bag

(If this is the case, I can only sympathize with LE - lapses happen. But at least they still can use it internally and eventually, find the perpetrator, at least know who he is).

This was the case with GSK also. Hence why he wasn't caught till DNA and familial DNA became a thing.

 

[jash]

Who on earth got so close LE know the suspect's eyes weren't blue hells bells that's one close encounter for anyone to be able to say that with confidence.

(quote snipped for focus)

DNA?

https://io9.gizmodo.com/police-can-now-use-dna-evidence-to-predict-your-eye-col-5867576

A team of Dutch scientists has now developed a genetic screen, called IrisPlex, that can help police determine with 94% accuracy whether a suspect has blue eyes or brown, just from a sample of their DNA.​

 

[PezCandy]

(quote snipped for focus)

DNA?

https://io9.gizmodo.com/police-can-now-use-dna-evidence-to-predict-your-eye-col-5867576

A team of Dutch scientists has now developed a genetic screen, called IrisPlex, that can help police determine with 94% accuracy whether a suspect has blue eyes or brown, just from a sample of their DNA.​

I believe that LE had stated that a witness said his eyes were not blue. I’m thinking that they were at passing close by one another? Speculation

 

[kkdj]

I believe that LE had stated that a witness said his eyes were not blue. I’m thinking that they were at passing close by one another? Speculation

To me, when seeing a stranger, if I notice their eyes, it's because they are out of the norm.....light colored eyes. Those are usually light blue.

 

[distracted]

Yes, who indeed?? I don't get the impression from those statements that DC was referring to some random SK that popped in from out of state because that's pretty much where they were focused for the first two plus years. This is someone up close and personal.

I listened to this interview again from WISH TV, done two weeks post PC. Although DC confuses me at times, I got the impression he's confident they've got something solid they're working on. I really do hope so because there are days I doubt.

Thanks for this video. I hadn't seen it before.

A couple of things stood out to me. One, DC admits that he, personally, thinks that BG could be a combination of both sketches.

Secondly, he draws attention to BG's body and notes that his body might be more recognizable than his face/head.

Having spent some time looking at just his body, he appears to have short legs in relationship to his upper body. His hands are at his hips so you can see that his upper body is longer. I still think he has a limp which is why LE has brought attention to his gait.

 

[PezCandy]

To me, when seeing a stranger, if I notice their eyes, it's because they are out of the norm.....light colored eyes. Those are usually light blue.

I notice eyes too when I’m passing by or someone is talking, at a closer range I could see the difference between dark and light eyes but further away I don’t think I’d be able to notice. It would be chilling to be that close to a killer and not even know it until after the fact

 

[distracted]

Do you think HLN just does what they want or do they have input from LE or possibly even encouraged by LE to air certain things like that sketch enhancement thing? I'm just wondering if HLN is just picking stuff up to air or if it is legitimately thought to be an accurate likeness so they wanted it out there?

-tried to find the link from HLN the other day but could not, they ran the video in which someone made the new sketch look real

nm, found it:

Is this what the Delphi killer looks like?

Seeing that sketch come to life is mind blowing. I'm not sold on how well it resembles BG but seeing real hair on his face made him look completely different to me. So I can see the value in the computer generation because it's hard to identify someone based on a sketch unless that person has a facial feature that stands out significantly.

It's amazing how many men resemble both sketches. Too many, IMO.

 

[distracted]

Interesting observation.

I don't believe that witnessing drug-related illegal activity would even be an issue these days. But what if the trails/park/toilet were used by someone for a rendez-vous of the type that you have described? And the girls witnessed it? (A crime it is not, but might break someone's career). This could explain why the words "guys" and "down the hill" sound as if they were pronounced by different people.

I'm not sure it would be either unless it was a violent crime of some kind.

That said, what if BG was caught in an intimate position with someone who was not his significant other and the girls recognized him? And he had a lot to lose.

I read somewhere (maybe here) that we are more apt to take photos of someone we know than complete strangers. I can honestly say that I've never taken a photo of a stranger unless that person just happened to be in the way. Although if I were afraid and had my wits about me and my phone in my hand, I might photograph or videotape someone. But it did get me thinking that perhaps they recognized him.