GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

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The snapshot of the doll covered up with the plastic sheet; Shannon received this days before arriving back from a business trip. Chris’s sick mind at work, his way of saying, I going to murder you and cover you up with a sheet. This was no rage. Instead a preplanned act of murdering his family.
 
For someone who claims to have "found Jesus", he sure does lie a lot. Perhaps he should open that bible of his to the book of Exodus, and start reading chapter 20.

He still loves his mistress, but it's her fault he annihilated his family? Give me a break! Just accept the fact that YOU, and you alone, CW, had the ability to let your family live. Stop trying to tarnish their memories and casting blame.

Sometimes I wonder if he would recognize the truth if it slapped him in the face. We already know his Momma and Sister can't. I just want them to all go away and stop bringing more pain to the amazing Rzucek family, and all of the people who loved Shanann and her babies.

I honestly hope you all are reading this thread, and see that no one believes any of you. You are nothing but lying liars, who think of no one but yourselves. Shanann was a shining light- something none of you will ever be.

#ShineLikeShanann
 
The picture of the drugs in the bin isn't at all clear enough to identify the type of drug. To me, it looks like prescription samples. Do they even give out Oxy samples?

And anything that comes from the Watts camp cannot be trusted. The Watts are on a mission to bash Cherlyn Cadle since she wouldn't go along with their plan to pin the blame on Shanann.
MOO
1) There was at least one other person than Chris in the basement while Shan'ann was gone.
2) I really doubt that a potent drug like "oxycontin" (what he said in his letter), would be almost lying around the house, in bins where a curious child could get into it. Disclaimer: I don't know anything about any of the forms of that drug, but wouldn't all forms be potent enough not to be in areas accessible to children?
3) bashing Cadle, she apparently has an exclusive agreement with the DailyMail, I can see that CW publicly releasing stunners that contradict her book might cause some harm to her. (literary harm)
4) those 2 pics by his statement might have been added by the web owner, not chosen by CW or family.
 
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1) There was at least one other person than Chris in the basement while Shan'ann was gone.
2) I really doubt that a potent drug like "oxycontin" (what he said in his letter), would be almost lying around the house, in bins where a curious child could get into it. Disclaimer: I don't know anything about any of the forms of that drug, but wouldn't all forms be potent enough not to be in areas accessible to children?
3) bashing Cadle, she apparently has an exclusive agreement with the DailyMail, I can see that CW publicly releasing stunners that contradict her book might cause some harm to her. (literary harm)
Well, I think those were samples of some other drug in that bin anyway. I have never taken any form of Oxy, but I would be absolutely shocked if they give out samples.
 
Well, I think those were samples of some other drug in that bin anyway. I have never taken any form of Oxy, but I would be absolutely shocked if they give out samples.

ITA... whatever the samples may have been, there's absolutely NO way they would have been Oxycontin or any other narcotic. These are all considered controlled substances, and especially throughout the last several years, any doctor prescribing them is watched like a hawk... I've never known any doctor to give out samples of anything more than various general medications (allergy meds, etc.); no reputable doctor would give out samples of narcotics under any circumstances- they would lose their license to practice medicine.
 
Discovery page 1768 & 1769 shows a deleted search CW made for Oxycodon 80mg.
Since he deleted that search, the time and date stamps were unavailable.
There is zero evidence that he got the Oxy from that basement bin, and CW claiming he got it there seems like damage control.
There have been insane lies about Shanann trying to abort or suicide by Oxy for many months now.
I wonder who was feeding the hate speech sites those lies?
Seems to me that the Watts family (and/or whomever supplied him with the Oxy, assuming they are not one in the same) realized CW telling the author that he would take this secret to his grave could ignite a legal investigation to be opened to find out who supplied it (if not at the very least public speculation) and convinced CW to fall back on what he knows best - lying - to say it came from home after all. Damage control, absolutely. No way he would have said he would take the secret to the grave if it just came from home. I think in his mind when he said that to the author he thought he was sending a message to whomever supplied it that the secret was safe with him - not realizing the fallout - publicly and potentially legally - it would create. Sounds to me like the Watts family were the most concerned....hmmmm...

IMO, of course.

ETA: Then again, if he gave it to her his first night in NC - I do not see how he could have obtained it from his family - seems more likely to have been from someone back in CO - I thought perhaps NK or a coworker who might have thought it was for recreational use? Just thinking aloud.
 
Respectfully I actually disagree with a lot of what you've said here. I do agree he was symbolically killing his mother. I said early on I felt she annihilated his identity and due to the deep enmeshment of his family of origin, he didn't see his kids and wife as separate from himself (which, having an apparently narcissistic mother, means her) so he annihilated his family (and thereby annhilated his non-existent self and his mother).

But I very much disagree with most of the balance. Shanann could not have prevented the murder. There was no working on the marriage or herself as a means to prevent that psychopath from killing her and her girls.

His "mousiness" was not within her control. And if he was unhappy it was up to him to speak up, not up to her to know something was wrong and change herself.

I see nothing much wrong with Shanann. Of course not perfect but she didn't seem controlling to me. She had a strong personality and filled the void his annihilated soul created. Which is why he picked her. He had no identity so he liked women who had strong ones.

But no one could ever really make up for what he lacked.

Regardless, he didn't exhibit psychopathic behaviors, IMO. In fact that was discussed on here by one of our psych experts.

He exhibited nothing much until he annihilated his family.

But Shanann very much knew their marriage was in trouble. She discussed that a lot in text messages and other correspondence.

So? That couldn't have saved her and her kids' lives because no one can keep a marriage at a fever pitch at all times and someone like CW with an annihilated soul likely went through life feeling a lot of nothingness. So he would be prone to equating the heady excitement of a new sexual relationship with love and life. It would've obsessed him. Because it caused him to feel something. Something strong admidst years of gray blandness.

His marriage could've been perfect and never could have competed with that because no marriage can ever sustain that level of excitement. So he was obsessed.

And then, NK wanted a man who didn't have kids or baggage.

So even if Shanann had left him, he was still going to kill his wife and kids, IMO. Because NK was pressuring him not to have a family, as inexplicable as that is.

I believe it would have been impossible for Shanann to realize the danger he posed or signs that something that dark was within him, because the very thing about these types of family annihilators that is so insanely shocking to everyone is that: There. Are. No. Signs.

There are millions of quiet, unhappy men who let their wives run their lives, who sit in the shadows and don't express themselves and pretty much none of them do what CW did.

Most family annihilators in general have a history of mental illness or criminal records/domestic abuse histories. What sets apart a man like CW is there are no signs. There's nothing that could remotely have warned anyone who knew him, including his wife, that there was something that dangerous within him.

They're masters of the mask.

I believe this line of thinking (that had she just been more sensitive and self-reflective she would possibly be alive) comes from fear. She wasn't sensitive and self-reflective. She wasn't a good wife. So she got killed. But I'm sensitive and self-reflective.
I'm a good wife. So this won't happen to me.

Meh. I believe this can happen to anyone. It's rare but when it occurs it comes out of the blue and cannot typically be predicted nor stopped. Maybe a random sixth sense might help someone now and then but the inexplicable doesn't lend itself to protective measures.

The value of learning about these people is about solving crime. Based on studies this is too complex and the signs are too vague and too common to help prevent a family from being annihilated by this particular kind of family annihilator.

I never said anything her saving her marriage and you missed what I was saying about awareness of self and others. That's okay, though. Some will see it and others won't. There were lots of signs of an unhealthy dynamic.
 
Seems to me that the Watts family (and/or whomever supplied him with the Oxy, assuming they are not one in the same) realized CW telling the author that he would take this secret to his grave could ignite a legal investigation to be opened to find out who supplied it (if not at the very least public speculation) and convinced CW to fall back on what he knows best - lying - to say it came from home after all. Damage control, absolutely. No way he would have said he would take the secret to the grave if it just came from home. I think in his mind when he said that to the author he thought he was sending a message to whomever supplied it that the secret was safe with him - not realizing the fallout - publicly and potentially legally - it would create. Sounds to me like the Watts family were the most concerned....hmmmm...

IMO, of course.

ETA: Then again, if he gave it to her his first night in NC - I do not see how he could have obtained it from his family - seems more likely to have been from someone back in CO - I thought perhaps NK or a coworker who might have thought it was for recreational use? Just thinking aloud.
I don't believe the Watts were the source of the Oxy at all. I just think they should be exposed if they have been putting out hate and lies about Shanann and her family.

I've always been suspicious of NK. Since it was obvious that CW planned the murders and being with NK was his motive, NK should have been treated as a suspect from the beginning, IMO. The discovery only showed about two dozen texts between CW & NK, and NK was the one who sent law enforcement those messages. They didn't recover any messages from their work phones. Those two were texting constantly, so there should have been hundreds of texts. I guess we'll never get to see those texts. And NK certainly wasn't forthcoming about their conversations either.
 
I just read parts of the letter and to be honest. I feel like his story in te letter fits the most. I understand some parts he will keep to himself and he still lies about stuff. But for real i think this is the most fitting story for this terrible tragedy.
 
They certainly had probable cause since they knew the only way his family left that house was in his truck.
JMO

No possible way that was probable cause. At that point nothing was clear, the story still has gaps even after having months of investigation and thousands of man hours trying to recreate it. There were certainly no clear indicators of foul play at that point to bring criminal charges.
 
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My heart breaks for SW family. I cannot even imagine what they are going through with all the recent releases.

Once again CW is lying about everything. Once again "his story" makes no sense.

I still stand by he killed those beautiful girls before SW ever got home. It makes no sense to say that SW was alive in bed and he went and smothered the girls. Then came back to bed and killed SW. This is not what happened. He usually inserts a tiny truth and then a bunch of lies. So what probably happened is he smothered the girls and then they "woke up" and he smothered them again. All before SW got home. I think this is why he freaked out about her plane being delayed. What would he do if she was delayed till the next day and he had already killed the girls?

I have no respect for this "author". CW should never be given an opportunity to speak about this ever. What she gave him is just what a narcissistic psychopath wants. She played right into his hands. She did this for money and fame plain and simple.

I don't think any of us are surprised about what Cindy wrote. She will forever try to justify what her son did. Never realizing there will never be any justification ever.

The amazing thing to me is CW still thinks there is a possibility he will be free someday. Denial runs huge in that family. He will be "free" from prison when hes carried out in a box.
 
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All marriages have unhealthy dynamics. We've seen it caricatured from I love Lucy, the Honeymooners, All in the family, through modern sitcoms, it's always there in degrees. To deny that in itself is an "unhealthy dynamic".

Had there been physical abuse towards her or her children from Chris, she would have ended her marriage. Having a nebish husband with no ambition, never voices an opinion, but does go to work on time, is a "nice guy" ..........that is not enough for a woman to leave a marriage with 2 kids and another on the way.

Whatever the dynamics, we gained little insight into the Watts marriage from staged facebook videos.

However after the murders, I learned a lot about his childhood environment: this "sweet" boy was a walking time bomb.
 
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Is there some proof that the plea deal included suppression of parts of the autopsy or toxicology report? The only parts of the autopsy that I recall being withheld are the photos, which had nothing to do with the plea deal, IIRC.
 
In the beginning of this , I was questioning about his history of lying and promptly I was attacked by posters.

After the horrifying revelations of what happened, I really did not follow very faithfully especially after all of the strange groups that were posting on the net saying proof of one thing or another.

I have consequently never read anything about his growing up except that he was quiet and mother was pushy. Dad became an addict.

Is there more info on his early years somewhere? I don’t see anything that shows why he would become a pretend person.

Pushy mothers who think their children can do no wrong are plentiful. Is that enough to create a fake person?

Surely there must be more.
 
In the beginning of this , I was questioning about his history of lying and promptly I was attacked by posters.

After the horrifying revelations of what happened, I really did not follow very faithfully especially after all of the strange groups that were posting on the net saying proof of one thing or another.

I have consequently never read anything about his growing up except that he was quiet and mother was pushy. Dad became an addict.

Is there more info on his early years somewhere? I don’t see anything that shows why he would become a pretend person.

Pushy mothers who think their children can do no wrong are plentiful. Is that enough to create a fake person?

Surely there must be more.
The first 5 chapters of a book that Mrs. Watts is writing, about "her side" of the CW/SW marriage, were released online. It's a goldmine of insight into the early years of CW and the dynamics of his family, IMO.
 
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Well, I think those were samples of some other drug in that bin anyway. I have never taken any form of Oxy, but I would be absolutely shocked if they give out samples.
Just wanted to add there was also a white over the counter bottle in the bin. Prescriptions intended for consumers are never in those white bottles sent from the drug companies to the pharmacies. Prescriptions for consumers here in the US are in clear orange prescriptions bottles with labels.
So zero evidence there was Oxy in that bin.
 
Respectfully I actually disagree with a lot of what you've said here. I do agree he was symbolically killing his mother. I said early on I felt she annihilated his identity and due to the deep enmeshment of his family of origin, he didn't see his kids and wife as separate from himself (which, having an apparently narcissistic mother, means her) so he annihilated his family (and thereby annhilated his non-existent self and his mother).

But I very much disagree with most of the balance. Shanann could not have prevented the murder. There was no working on the marriage or herself as a means to prevent that psychopath from killing her and her girls.

His "mousiness" was not within her control. And if he was unhappy it was up to him to speak up, not up to her to know something was wrong and change herself.

I see nothing much wrong with Shanann. Of course not perfect but she didn't seem controlling to me. She had a strong personality and filled the void his annihilated soul created. Which is why he picked her. He had no identity so he liked women who had strong ones.

But no one could ever really make up for what he lacked.

Regardless, he didn't exhibit psychopathic behaviors, IMO. In fact that was discussed on here by one of our psych experts.

He exhibited nothing much until he annihilated his family.

But Shanann very much knew their marriage was in trouble. She discussed that a lot in text messages and other correspondence.

So? That couldn't have saved her and her kids' lives because no one can keep a marriage at a fever pitch at all times and someone like CW with an annihilated soul likely went through life feeling a lot of nothingness. So he would be prone to equating the heady excitement of a new sexual relationship with love and life. It would've obsessed him. Because it caused him to feel something. Something strong admidst years of gray blandness.

His marriage could've been perfect and never could have competed with that because no marriage can ever sustain that level of excitement. So he was obsessed.

And then, NK wanted a man who didn't have kids or baggage.

So even if Shanann had left him, he was still going to kill his wife and kids, IMO. Because NK was pressuring him not to have a family, as inexplicable as that is.

I believe it would have been impossible for Shanann to realize the danger he posed or signs that something that dark was within him, because the very thing about these types of family annihilators that is so insanely shocking to everyone is that: There. Are. No. Signs.

There are millions of quiet, unhappy men who let their wives run their lives, who sit in the shadows and don't express themselves and pretty much none of them do what CW did.

Most family annihilators in general have a history of mental illness or criminal records/domestic abuse histories. What sets apart a man like CW is there are no signs. There's nothing that could remotely have warned anyone who knew him, including his wife, that there was something that dangerous within him.

They're masters of the mask.

I believe this line of thinking (that had she just been more sensitive and self-reflective she would possibly be alive) comes from fear. She wasn't sensitive and self-reflective. She wasn't a good wife. So she got killed. But I'm sensitive and self-reflective.
I'm a good wife. So this won't happen to me.

Meh. I believe this can happen to anyone. It's rare but when it occurs it comes out of the blue and cannot typically be predicted nor stopped. Maybe a random sixth sense might help someone now and then but the inexplicable doesn't lend itself to protective measures.

The value of learning about these people is about solving crime. Based on studies this is too complex and the signs are too vague and too common to help prevent a family from being annihilated by this particular kind of family annihilator.

what a post! @gitana1 Thanks.
 
All marriages have unhealthy dynamics. We've seen it caricatured from I love Lucy, the Honeymooners, All in the family, through modern sitcoms, it's always there in degrees. To deny that in itself is an "unhealthy dynamic".

Had there been physical abuse towards her or her children from Chris, she would have ended her marriage. Having a nebish husband with no ambition, never voices an opinion, but does go to work on time, is a "nice guy" ..........that is not enough for a woman to leave a marriage with 2 kids and another on the way.

Whatever the dynamics, we gained little insight into the Watts marriage from staged facebook videos.

However after the murders, I learned a lot about his childhood environment: this "sweet" boy was a walking time bomb.

Who's denying that other marriages have unhealthy dynamics? Not I. I'm just saying it's important to become aware of such things. It's common that people are not.

Do you recall Shannan approaching some lawyer, at least months before, about a divorce? While it doesn't seem, from what we know, that she spoke about it much with friends (?), it was apparently something she had thought about. I wonder what prompted it but suppose we'll never know.
 
Who's denying that other marriages have unhealthy dynamics? Not I. I'm just saying it's important to become aware of such things. It's common that people are not.

Do you recall Shannan approaching some lawyer, at least months before, about a divorce? While it doesn't seem, from what we know, that she spoke about it much with friends (?), it was apparently something she had thought about. I wonder what prompted it but suppose we'll never know.
I just don't think a woman who has primary care responsibilities for 2 little kids, and the hormonal effects of another one on the way with the nest building instincts, a full time job trying to make ends meet, autoimmune diseases, would pay attention to subtle unhealthy dynamics with Mr. "nice guy" who did go to work every day. She probably wished he would do more, but she did it instead. He could have worked extra hours as a well-paid mechanic, obviously he had asked Anadarko to take out more 401K donations than the family could afford.

I do remember when she spoke with some lawyer at an adjacent table (IIRC) to ask a few questions about divorce, but I don't know if it was a type of joking amongst friends, it doesn't seem like a serious way to get advice. She had the reputation of making friends with everyone, being able to talk to anyone.
 
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