Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[human]

It is strange that the staff did not check on them. If a phone kept ringing and no one answered, I would check to see if something had happened to the elderly residents.

Of course, they could have checked, saw that no one was around and figured they left in Barry’s car.

Perhaps they thought Honey forgot her phone at home.

I doubt if murder crossed their minds

 

[deugirtni]

Here’s the part that confirms JS’s involvement with the article:


After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case


Regarding the way JS participated in interviews: from The Star, after they reached out to JS for comments on another story—

Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

But where is the direct quote saying he first heard the news from somewhere other than his aunt's phonecall?

 

[deugirtni]

Someone speculated that H would have removed her outdoor coat & boots before going to the powder room. Given her age (which is pretty close to mine), she would quite likely have needed the washroom as soon as she entered the house, coat, boots, and all. (One of the many joys of aging.) The phone was found in the powder room, so maybe she heard something, was about to call, but was accosted there. Can't find the source now, but I thought at least one article did say they still had their outdoor wear on when found.

Could the "odd ducks" who toured the house have done something to one of the external doors so that it didn't lock? If so, were the killers already there when H got home, with no signs of forced entry? I hope Donovan's book has more about those two, who I assume were interviewed by TPS?

I agree, I think there was only the one article that said they still had their outdoor wear on when found.. however it could've been 'editorial license' was taken by that reporter, to 'assume' that it was outdoor coats that were referred to?
The cellphone also could have simply fallen out of her pocket.. although with a tile floor, it would've made a noise. Would be interesting to know if they can tell from examining the phone, whether she had attempted to call 911 or someone else at some point during the hours it is believed this happened?

 

[deugirtni]

It is strange that the staff did not check on them. If a phone kept ringing and no one answered, I would check to see if something had happened to the elderly residents.

Of course, they could have checked, saw that no one was around and figured they left in Barry’s car.

Perhaps they thought Honey forgot her phone at home.

I doubt if murder crossed their minds

For sure murder wouldn't have crossed their minds, but if it seemed that H may be in the home somewhere, but yet not answering her phone.. why NOT go looking for her to see if she may need assistance somewhere?

 

[human]

For sure murder wouldn't have crossed their minds, but if it seemed that H may be in the home somewhere, but yet not answering her phone.. why NOT go looking for her to see if she may need assistance somewhere?

True. Even look in the basement.

I wonder about the cleaner. She must come everyday in order to clean a house that large.

 

[Kittybunny]

Wow! Lots of great stuff already in that book! Definitely a must buy. Very well-written too. Things that you guys have mentioned that also stuck out at me:

• Honey's iPhone being found on the powder room floor upstairs
• Real estate agent showing the house to two men she thought were "odd ducks"
• The home inspection report on floor hallway - originally I was thinking maybe perp dropped it but what you guys speculate about maybe Barry having it in his hand when he came in from garage makes sense
• The oddities and delay in calling 911 and Elise Stern's reluctance to take charge of the situation. Why call Mary Schecthman instead of police?

I admit that this pushes me further into the double-homicide camp, though I was already there.

 

[WINDSOR]

I don’t understand that, either.

The only place the housekeeper had not been in the home was in the basement. And there were signs Honey was home.

The potential buyers and their agent arrived before the other agent. Why not look for Honey as they waited?

Just a quick look downstairs and the housekeeper would have seen the house inspection documents on the hallway floor.

In my limited experience, most staff learn to; a) 'mind their own business' when working at someone's personal residence. b) just focus on your job, get it done and get out. c) do not go looking for trouble.

 

[WINDSOR]

The 'odd ducks' referred to in the book are intriguing to me. Since I am pretty sure a lot of pre-planning was involved in this crime, these two men would fit my scenario. I am sure the TPS have investigated these men. If they were involved in the crime, no doubt they gave false identification to the real estate agent who showed them the property. If so, the TPS have not been able to track these men down, based on the ID's they gave out.

If the 'odd ducks' description was based on the RE agent's sense that these men were not 'real prospective buyers' based on the questions they did or did not ask, I would be even more suspicious of them.

If the TPS would tell us if they have located and interviewed these men, it would shed some light on the investigation. If the TPS cannot find them, then these 'odd ducks' are central to the investigation in my opinion.

 

[casesensitive]

True. Even look in the basement.

I wonder about the cleaner. She must come everyday in order to clean a house that large.

It is noted in the book that the cleaning lady came every Friday and the plant girl came twice a week.

 

[ldlager]

I'd like to know more about what B&H were wearing. It has been mentioned about their 'jackets' being down their arms a bit.. and we've speculated ad nauseum as to whether it was outdoor wear, or more 'business suit jackets'. We've guessed that H was accosted when she entered the house, and someone (a VI? an MSM article?) alluded to a bit of a mess near the front door? Now we discover H's cellphone had made it upstairs to a powder-room.. now I'm wondering if she was accosted upstairs, outdoor coat and boots already removed, and brought down the spiral staircase to the basement.. where they also accosted B when he came in from the underground parking garage.

By "upstairs" I think what is meant is on the ground floor (ie upstairs from the basement). Plus usually wouldn't a "powder room" be on the main/ground floor of a 2/3 story house? I always associate a powder room with a room that guests visiting the house (but not staying over) might use.
However, is see from the floor plans show a "powder room" on both the main floor, and the top floor. I take from this that a "powder room" is probably a bathroom without a bath or shower. So I guess we don't know (yet) if the phone was found on the main floor or the top floor.

 

[ldlager]

And Jonathon was the first to be called who was local. Wondering why he wouldn't rush to the house? Or maybe he did?

He may not have been in town. I believe that his business is located several hours north east of Toronto.
But you would think he would have at least jumped in the car.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Floor plans:

http://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

 

[rickcross]

He may not have been in town. I believe that his business is located several hours north east of Toronto.
But you would think he would have at least jumped in the car.

Well, in at least one article he seems to have said that he found out about the deaths through social media, something the family criticized police for in the early days of the investigation, so something is very odd about this information. Like thats a surprise lol.

One has to wonder why, after calling Schecthman and JS, it still took 90 minutes for cops to arrive? Is it possible that family members visited the house prior to police involvement? Is it possible that items were removed or staged prior to police involvement?

 

[rickcross]

The 'odd ducks' referred to in the book are intriguing to me. Since I am pretty sure a lot of pre-planning was involved in this crime, these two men would fit my scenario. I am sure the TPS have investigated these men. If they were involved in the crime, no doubt they gave false identification to the real estate agent who showed them the property. If so, the TPS have not been able to track these men down, based on the ID's they gave out.

If the 'odd ducks' description was based on the RE agent's sense that these men were not 'real prospective buyers' based on the questions they did or did not ask, I would be even more suspicious of them.

If the TPS would tell us if they have located and interviewed these men, it would shed some light on the investigation. If the TPS cannot find them, then these 'odd ducks' are central to the investigation in my opinion.

If that were the case, do you not think that TPS wouldn't have plastered images or composite images of these people everywhere? That would be a major clue. My guess is these people were accounted for very quickly and they checked out.

 

[casesensitive]

I think it is safe to say that the phone was in the main floor powder room.

Excerpt:
Both women began their chores on the main floor. While they were working a phone rang. The cleaning lady followed the sound into a powder room......When she moved upstairs.....

ETA There are two powder rooms on the main floor. One is in the foyer at the front door. The other is close to the kitchen.

 

[deugirtni]

By "upstairs" I think what is meant is on the ground floor (ie upstairs from the basement). Plus usually wouldn't a "powder room" be on the main/ground floor of a 2/3 story house? I always associate a powder room with a room that guests visiting the house (but not staying over) might use.
However, is see from the floor plans show a "powder room" on both the main floor, and the top floor. I take from this that a "powder room" is probably a bathroom without a bath or shower. So I guess we don't know (yet) if the phone was found on the main floor or the top floor.

You're right.. after looking again, it says the following, and the way it is written would indicate it was on the main floor (pg7):
"Both women began their chores on the main floor. While they were working, a phone rang. The cleaning lady followed the sound into a powder room, where she found an iPhone lying on the tiled floor. By the time she picked up the phone it had stopped ringing. When she moved upstairs, she noticed....."

 

[deugirtni]

He may not have been in town. I believe that his business is located several hours north east of Toronto.
But you would think he would have at least jumped in the car.

In reality, who says that he didn't come right away? It was said that he and his sisters were at the house waiting for confirmation from police, IIRC.

 

[deugirtni]

The fact that MS phoned JS... to me, that indicates some kind of a relationship that was good enough to bother doing that.. but yet we heard about how there was tension by the time of the funeral, with MSM reporting two diff locations for the wake? The funeral was held quite quickly too, IIRC.. so what could've happened THAT quickly to cause *such* hard feelings? The mere mention that H said she'd leave her money??

 

[deugirtni]

Well, in at least one article he seems to have said that he found out about the deaths through social media, something the family criticized police for in the early days of the investigation, so something is very odd about this information. Like thats a surprise lol.

One has to wonder why, after calling Schecthman and JS, it still took 90 minutes for cops to arrive? Is it possible that family members visited the house prior to police involvement? Is it possible that items were removed or staged prior to police involvement?

The place where this excerpt ends, we can't yet tell whether it was 90 minutes before police showed up, or 90 minutes before police were finally called. Just saying. I doubt if police would've taken long to show up, imo.

ETA: If they DID take an hour or an hour and a half to show up, add another knock to their already tarnished reputation.

 

[deugirtni]

The fact that MS phoned JS... to me, that indicates some kind of a relationship that was good enough to bother doing that.. but yet we heard about how there was tension by the time of the funeral, with MSM reporting two diff locations for the wake? The funeral was held quite quickly too, IIRC.. so what could've happened THAT quickly to cause *such* hard feelings? The mere mention that H said she'd leave her money??

Sorry to quote myself.. but wow.. if there is any truth to this spat amongst family members, and it happened THAT quickly, and we know there was someone saying that H had said it would be in her Will that she'd leave her money, AND the Will was missing at some point.. that is just disgusting, imo. Who is going to squabble about a few million when there are BILLIONS? Obviously H and M were very close. And after hearing about that, I find it really sus that the Will would go missing too, imo.