Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[TL4S]

Yeah, it just seems too coincidental to me. The timing was so so very precise. Happens to go dead right after her Dad has just been calling her.

As for why BG didn’t deal with it (power off, crush it, etc) after the first call at 3:11, IMO it’s either because he wasn’t physically able to- maybe still in the process of killing- or he didn’t care if it rang once, only once it was clear someone was trying to reach her did it concern him.

I’ve gone back and forth so many times with my theories with this case, but one thing I come back to is the possibility BG was still at the crime scene right as DG was arriving to get the girls. (No need for us to rehash the minute by minute timeline to try to figure out how much time he had, etc.... I think we’ve established it would be a very tight timeline but certainly possible).

Anyway, IMO it’s not a coincidence the phone powered off/lost the battery at the time it did.

All MOO.

Good ideas. Yeah, the thought of DG being that close as BG is committing the crimes is unsettling, to say the least.

 

[NameUser]

Here's why I don't think she zoomed in. Assuming the girls were right off the end of the bridge, BG was only about 60 feet away, according to GH's measurements (which I agree with). I've stepped that distance off and looked through my phone's camera. Zooming in at that distance would make it much harder to capture him in the frame, especially if she was trying to be somewhat discreet about it. JMO, of course.

The footage released is zoomed in by LE(MOO), the original footage was most likely not zoomed at all.

 

[NameUser]

Does anyone think it could be a good idea for LE to do a reconstruction ? This is very popular in some countries.

I wonder if LE know concretely which way the girls were led from the bridge? I know we have speculated in the possible route, but I want to know if they have boot/show prints that confirm anything.

 

[raja]

dbm

 

[raja]

I have read, i believe here, that the phone Libby had that day wasnt her's. That hers was damaged or something. Does anyone have any recollection of this? And if so, where it originated?

I thought she used someone else's phone also. I wonder if she had 2 phones with her. Maybe the killer thought he found the phone that took his picture/video and in fact he took the wrong phone. Just a thought.

 

[raja]

2 phones might answer the statement you left something behind. 2 phones might answer why we think one rang and the other was turned off. DG and BP may have been calling the 2 phones.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Here's why I don't think she zoomed in. Assuming the girls were right off the end of the bridge, BG was only about 60 feet away, according to GH's measurements (which I agree with). I've stepped that distance off and looked through my phone's camera. Zooming in at that distance would make it much harder to capture him in the frame, especially if she was trying to be somewhat discreet about it. JMO, of course.

I’m just not sure about the zoom anymore. I’ve also been rethinking selfie mode too and the shadows angles would have been affected, but I can’t visualize exactly how. Ugh. I’m just going to wait for LE to lay it all out at trial.

Thanks to everyone that has been patient while I’ve been thinking out loud!

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yeah, it just seems too coincidental to me. The timing was so so very precise. Happens to go dead right after her Dad has just been calling her.

As for why BG didn’t deal with it (power off, crush it, etc) after the first call at 3:11, IMO it’s either because he wasn’t physically able to- maybe still in the process of killing- or he didn’t care if it rang once, only once it was clear someone was trying to reach her did it concern him.

I’ve gone back and forth so many times with my theories with this case, but one thing I come back to is the possibility BG was still at the crime scene right as DG was arriving to get the girls. (No need for us to rehash the minute by minute timeline to try to figure out how much time he had, etc.... I think we’ve established it would be a very tight timeline but certainly possible).

Anyway, IMO it’s not a coincidence the phone powered off/lost the battery at the time it did.

All MOO.

Bbm - ditto!

I also agree with pretty much everything else you said too.

 

[Mosit]

^^^^ I'm afraid that is just a rookie guess on your part ^^^ Nobody here knows what LE has and doesn't have. . that's a fact.

I've been following the case long enough to know they don't have nothing else but more recording and maybe the perps dna. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. They messed up bigtime and they know it, they found the bodies fairly quickly and they have his voice and picture but still after this amount of time they are no closer, this case is going cold and it's gonna be a long long time if ever before this 1 is solved.

And I'm not here to insult or be disrespectful to anybody, but after such a long time following the case and ghosting websleuths I have lost all hope. I do think it's a policeman though

 

[Charlot123]

Speaking of the phone, I can’t help but feel the fact DH could still get through to a ring on LG’s phone 3:14 (per Foreigner’s timeline in media thread), but it went straight to voicemail at 3:30 is somehow significant. It would be a huge coincidence IMO that her phone battery happened to die in the 15 minutes after someone starts calling her and looking for her. I do not think it’s a coincidence.

My best theory is that the perp heard the phone ringing, and I think he turned it off. I think he left the phone because he was savvy enough to know it could be traced to him if he took it. And I don’t think he knew they’d captured his image and voice or that would have made him take it regardless.

The significance of the phone going to vm by 3:30 (if the battery just didn’t coincidentally die) is that it would place BG still at the scene as late as 3:14. Thus affecting the potential timeline of his escape, potential reliable witness sightings, and the escape route.

MOO.

Very good observation.

1) Touch DNA on the phone, too...

2) It characterizes BG as the guy who reads a lot on the topic of true crime.

3) Would BG even risk touching Libby's cell phone, though? For the same fear, DNA...

4) If BG traveled to Delphi in car/bike, he probably took his phone with him and left it in the car. I can see some benefit in leaving the phone with GPS turned on at home (it establishes your alibi). However, these day and age traveling without a cell phone is terribly inconvenient. LE said BG was moving around very fast, meaning, he needed his cell phone more than we think. So his cell phone should ping somewhere around the trails area on that day from 12 to 5. MOO.

I can imagine BG buying a burner phone for that activity, but if he is a family man or has parents, or is a kid, or needs establish a good alibi, answering his own cell phone would be important. (Or can he connect a burner phone to own cell phone? I am sure he can, but it can be traced, too).

I still think there is a possibility he left his own cell phone in the vehicle. Can it be researched somehow? Can all cellphones responding in the area around Monon bridge that fateful day from 12-5 be traced?

5) Either way, I see BG as the person who reads and Googles on true crime, is the member of the forums, has some knowledge of GPS and cell phones; if Libby went to crimininology classes, perhaps BG attended similar classes at another or the same place as well? He has to have the trail of exploring the issue of crimes, have the knowledge of similar crimes, and I think he never concealed his interest.

 

[Mosit]

EDit

 

[ScumbagTrav]

So why wasn't he in the 2.07 p.m. SC photo then?

Could you link to the GH source video you are quoting from so we can view it?

Forgive me. I thought i included it.

Starts around 53 min mark. Have to listen to a crazy lady that called in chiming in (sorry if ur a sleuther).

 

[MingyMoo]

following some more.

when will they get their man??!!

They will get their man when they (LE) can prove he was there. I remain positive in LE and think they know who. Albeit I wobble occasionally on that thought.

MingyMoo

 

[Cutiekitty]

I think she had a Samsung as there is a pic with her holding it in her hand and it was discussed many threads ago IIRC.

ETA. @gregjrichards I see you have recognised the phone from the pic I remembered.

Interesting. So, she must’ve either had another phone (an iPhone) an iPod or an iPad.

 

[Falling Down]

Very good observation.

1) Touch DNA on the phone, too...

2) It characterizes BG as the guy who reads a lot on the topic of true crime.

3) Would BG even risk touching Libby's cell phone, though? For the same fear, DNA...

4) If BG traveled to Delphi in car/bike, he probably took his phone with him and left it in the car. I can see some benefit in leaving the phone with GPS turned on at home (it establishes your alibi). However, these day and age traveling without a cell phone is terribly inconvenient. LE said BG was moving around very fast, meaning, he needed his cell phone more than we think. So his cell phone should ping somewhere around the trails area on that day from 12 to 5. MOO.

I can imagine BG buying a burner phone for that activity, but if he is a family man or has parents, or is a kid, or needs establish a good alibi, answering his own cell phone would be important. (Or can he connect a burner phone to own cell phone? I am sure he can, but it can be traced, too).

I still think there is a possibility he left his own cell phone in the vehicle. Can it be researched somehow? Can all cellphones responding in the area around Monon bridge that fateful day from 12-5 be traced?

5) Either way, I see BG as the person who reads and Googles on true crime, is the member of the forums, has some knowledge of GPS and cell phones; if Libby went to crimininology classes, perhaps BG attended similar classes at another or the same place as well? He has to have the trail of exploring the issue of crimes, have the knowledge of similar crimes, and I think he never concealed his interest.

I have a Samsung burner phone with a removable battery. My understanding is the only sure way to avoid a cell phone from being tracked is to have one with a removable battery, and to remove the battery to avoid being tracked by cell towers.

Also, just having a burner phone alone may be enough to avoid being tracked back to an individual person, depending on how it was paid for (i.e. cash), and what it's used for, how often, etc.

JMO

-FD

 

[tresir2012]

I've been following the case long enough to know they don't have nothing else but more recording and maybe the perps dna. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. They messed up bigtime and they know it, they found the bodies fairly quickly and they have his voice and picture but still after this amount of time they are no closer, this case is going cold and it's gonna be a long long time if ever before this 1 is solved.

And I'm not here to insult or be disrespectful to anybody, but after such a long time following the case and ghosting websleuths I have lost all hope. I do think it's a policeman though

What makes you think BG is a LEO?

 

[tresir2012]

Very good observation.

1) Touch DNA on the phone, too...

2) It characterizes BG as the guy who reads a lot on the topic of true crime.

3) Would BG even risk touching Libby's cell phone, though? For the same fear, DNA...

4) If BG traveled to Delphi in car/bike, he probably took his phone with him and left it in the car. I can see some benefit in leaving the phone with GPS turned on at home (it establishes your alibi). However, these day and age traveling without a cell phone is terribly inconvenient. LE said BG was moving around very fast, meaning, he needed his cell phone more than we think. So his cell phone should ping somewhere around the trails area on that day from 12 to 5. MOO.

I can imagine BG buying a burner phone for that activity, but if he is a family man or has parents, or is a kid, or needs establish a good alibi, answering his own cell phone would be important. (Or can he connect a burner phone to own cell phone? I am sure he can, but it can be traced, too).

I still think there is a possibility he left his own cell phone in the vehicle. Can it be researched somehow? Can all cellphones responding in the area around Monon bridge that fateful day from 12-5 be traced?

5) Either way, I see BG as the person who reads and Googles on true crime, is the member of the forums, has some knowledge of GPS and cell phones; if Libby went to crimininology classes, perhaps BG attended similar classes at another or the same place as well? He has to have the trail of exploring the issue of crimes, have the knowledge of similar crimes, and I think he never concealed his interest.

It is possible to do a tower dump and obtain all the phone IMEI numbers and LE should have done that early in the case, for each of the towers in the area that day. They obviously have a good estimate of TOD. (Tbey have said they died within minutes of the recording and they have the autopsy) So they should have a small period of time to look thru phone logs. AJMO

 

[FinePrint]

Speaking of the phone, I can’t help but feel the fact DH could still get through to a ring on LG’s phone 3:14 (per Foreigner’s timeline in media thread), but it went straight to voicemail at 3:30 is somehow significant. It would be a huge coincidence IMO that her phone battery happened to die in the 15 minutes after someone starts calling her and looking for her. I do not think it’s a coincidence.

My best theory is that the perp heard the phone ringing, and I think he turned it off. I think he left the phone because he was savvy enough to know it could be traced to him if he took it. And I don’t think he knew they’d captured his image and voice or that would have made him take it regardless.

The significance of the phone going to vm by 3:30 (if the battery just didn’t coincidentally die) is that it would place BG still at the scene as late as 3:14. Thus affecting the potential timeline of his escape, potential reliable witness sightings, and the escape route.

MOO.

I think you are right on this one. I truly believe BG was still in the area when DG arrived to pick up the girls

 

[FinePrint]

I think you are right on this one. I truly believe BG was still in the area when DG arrived to pick up the girls

Replying to my own post to add that this line of thinking actually coincidences with the last GH live chat the other night. Some very interesting comments were made by Gray’s last caller. Around 2:00
Gray Hughes Investigates
Go to the one titled “Delphi Call In, share your thoughts

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Wow. We’re up to #114 on this thread. Over two and a half years. I’m not so sure LE knows who did this and is just crossing t’s and dotting i’s. I think they could have edited the complete works of Shakespeare by now.