Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[Boxer]

TBH I have been here since day 1 and my thoughts have changed on many occasions.

I don't really know what to think anymore. The last PC rocked me back on my heels and I've had a really hard time "seeing" BG differently from the original sketch. My mind can't go there and I think this is a BIG problem for LE. If I can't reset and move on, I am imagining that many others are having the same issue.

They spent so much time on the original sketch and that's who we were all looking for and now it's all changed.

Deep down, I believe that a family member is suspicious but can't pull the trigger on calling LE. It's traumatic and they probably are fighting an internal battle as to whether they are right or wrong. To be right is horrible. To be wrong could be even worse for them.

I don't believe that LE has someone in their sights. If they did, and they have DNA from the crime scene, they would have found a way by now to get DNA from a suspect without their knowledge. They would know if they had a match. A cigarette butt here, a straw, a coffee cup, etc. It's done all the time. So they either have a suspect but don't have DNA, or they don't have a suspect period.

I don't know what it's going to take to solve this crime but time is ticking and I think we all know that it is COLD. Very cold. But how can it be cold when we have video of the murderer and his voice? Seriously - how can this guy not be found?

All MOO. My head hurts every time I think about Abby and Libby. My heart hurts even more.

No other similar murders in over two years? Anywhere? Has this guy left? I used to think he was local but now............

One day I'm going to wake up and see ARREST in the heading of this thread and it will be done. One day.

MOO re: BG - I am seeing a young man in older style clothes.
I never reconciled what I saw as a younger body for BG. The blurry face pattern strongly suggests a middle age grump, and that was really unfortunate, and it was lucky for him.

Take a look at the right side his "face" and I think you will see a lump of some material there. It makes a plump older look to the face.
Take that away, see it as background fabric and the face of a young man emerges, more of a match his legs and torso, and looking a lot like the new April sketch.

 

[flashy09]

Hey everyone. I’m new here—I’ve been lurking for a while but just now decided to sign up and post. Yall take it easy on me while I learn the ropes.

As to LE knowing who BG is, I’ve been wondering why they would release such a large age range if in fact they know the guy. Wouldn’t they be able to fairly easily get his exact age and thus reduce the age range for the public? Maybe it would still make sense to have the age range be that large even if they do know, so I’d definitely be interested in hearing why that may be the case if anyone has ideas.

I thought about this and came up with a few guesses. First of all, remember Carter saying "may appear younger than his true age" at the April PC. That is honestly one of the most personal things I have heard about BG. Only the "not blue eyes" is any more descriptive and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. I doubt Carter meant he looks younger than 18. To be noticeable younger than 18 you are talking about a prepubescent child look and that is not the case. Even up to about to 25, I don't see the need to clarify appearing younger - most men have full head of hair, youthful faces, etc. So even though many of my personal POI have been 18-25, my #1 guess is that LE thinks/knows he is towards upper end of the age range , but his totally unreceeded hairline and youthful hairstyle could easily throw off a casual passerby or witness from afar. So age range goes all the way down t0 18 to not exclude any tips.

Or....LE thinks/knows he is young as the new sketch implies, but as the bridge video (and to me the audio) gives the impression of a middle aged, lumbering man with a beer gut, therefore to not exclude tips for the opposite reason the range goes all the way up to 40. Especially important if he had his distinct hair covered by a hoodie on the trail

Or they think it's a duo or BG was in disguise and released both sketches and a large age range hoping to get a bite on somebody! Basically a hail mary to the population of Indiana to ask themselves where their son/father/brother/uncle was that day!

 

[Fizzle]

Which is why I have asked if there is any way to see if any cease and desist orders, or something like that, have been filed. Did not notice anybody answering that question, maybe nobody noticed my questions on that amidst all the unending circular discussions. IDK how to find that out, or if it would show us anything of value one way or the other. I just think it is an avenue that ought to be looked at.

I'd love to know this

 

[nefes]

As someone who lives in a small town in Indiana, I agree with LE that somebody knows who he is and what he did or suspects him. I don't think he was just somebody passing through. I believe he knew the area. In a town that small, there's got to be people who very much suspect somebody they know well, like a family member. And maybe they know that person is mentally ill and they don't want to turn in a sick family member. I can't imagine any other reason for not turning him in after such a horrific crime. I can't say I'd do the same, but everybody is different. I think that's most likely and I think LE hasn't got a clue who he is and is counting on somebody to come forward with a suspect for them to pursue. MOO.

 

[Justice101]

This is all a standard profile for a rural murder of two girls in a relatively sparsely populated area known almost exclusively by locals.

They don't know anything, they have nothing, no POI, and no avenues of approach.

Their killer is currently free and will likely never be captured or charged for the murders of Abigail and Liberty.

This case isn't going cold fast, it went cold fast. In the realm of criminal investigations, this case will go down in the books next to the name Jon Benet Ramsey and Madeleine McCann.

It will never be solved, unless the killer takes it upon himself to confess some years down the road - like Samuel Little.

The Morgan Harrington case would probably have not been solved but the murderer killed again a few year later when he killed Hannah Graham. Both murders in Charlottesville, VA. Often it seems, one case does not have enough evidence, then the killer cannot control the urge and kills again, only to give more clues the next time.

I think the Delphi case will eventually be solved (75% chance in my humble opinion)… might take years when the perpetrator makes a mistake.

 

[Justice101]

Sorry....another long post from me.

Bumping this link below forward. It has been posted before.
It was brought up recently on one of the fb groups and is well worth the listen based on recent discussions here. IMO

I am 100% certain that this case is not cold.

They know more now than they did back then....someone has given them some key information to change their direction. IMO

January 15, 2018
This interview between the family, Doug Carter and Megyn Kelly is a good one although it may raise more questions now that the two sketches have been discussed extensively and DC mentions that there were no eyewitnesses (WTH? The only thing I can conclude from this statement is that he meant eyewitnesses to the actual crime.....because they have mentioned info being provided by 'witnesses' in msm many times, distributed two sketches, as well as stated, 'we have a witness' at the April presser.)

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

This first part of the discussion is a recap of what happened to the girls then Megyn talks with the families.

To paraphrase some of the info, Becky says that they wouldn't have had anything without Libby videoing the guy, Kelsi doesn't think that Libby would have willingly gone with anyone 'down the hill' unless he had a weapon and forced/threatened her, she would have fought back if there was no weapon......Anna doesn't believe that it was anyone that they know, if it was someone they knew there wouldn't have been any alarm to video the killer.

At around 8:40 mark Carter answers some questions about the crime. Some of the key info:

MK:"Do you know whether it was a conscious choice to press record......"(then some discussion about whether she had an i-phone)

DC:" We believe it was a conscious choice by her because what was happening was not normal, but that's speculative at this time."

10:25 mark

MK: "Have there been any other similar crimes Doug, similar M.O.'s in the area?"

DC: "Well we believe that a person that would commit a crime like this with such incredibly evil intent likely has committed that crime before, and with that known and he likely will commit it again."

MK: "Can you tell the age of this man?"

DC: "We can't."

MK: "You don't know. And not even a range."

DC: "I think a range would be speculative at this point in time, obviously a grown man."

MK: "Were there any eyewitnesses who actually saw him?"

DC: "No there were not."

MK: "Other than obviously the girls..."

I have stated this before....I believe that the April presser was designed to put the squeeze on a specific person that LE has in their sights. They want him to squirm and make another mistake, confess to someone or have an alibi clue in to what they know that they may not realize they know.

The statements made by DC were not arbitrary.
They were too pointed and specific to be a 'hail mary' or a stab in the dark.

The 'uncovering' of the sketch was to get a reaction from someone who was being watched 'nearby' or 'who may be in the room'.

I think he was being filmed as the presser happened and that his reaction of the sketch being unveiled was captured.

All JMO and thoughts based on recent discussion and by re-watching this video.

Let's all hope that Abby and Libby and their families get the justice they deserve very soon!

With all of the photos taken by the press that April press conference, I would LOVE TO SEE photos of the media, gallery and everyone in that room/.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't believe they are desperately appealing to the public. I think the April presser was very much designed/intended to stir the local community there (hopefully resulting in more info divulged) while also intended to more widely keep this crime under the spotlight, keeping pressure applied and attention fixed keenly on this guy/guys.

Hey, is the release of "Guys" a subtle clue it is more than one involved?

 

[Kudzuu]

Hey, is the release of "Guys" a subtle clue it is more than one involved?

Or just a clue that he doesn't have a southern accent. That eliminates a lot of rural southern men. Can anyone place the accent?

 

[tresir2012]

I wonder about the meaning of the word "secondary."

What context was that used? I don't remember.

 

[Boxer]

Or just a clue that he doesn't have a southern accent. That eliminates a lot of rural southern men. Can anyone place the accent?

MOO I have been thinking that now they have 5 words out there for linguists to work with. They must gave a good idea where his accent is from.
It is very like Delphi accent, just a little less lilting.

 

[tresir2012]

Which is why I have asked if there is any way to see if any cease and desist orders, or something like that, have been filed. Did not notice anybody answering that question, maybe nobody noticed my questions on that amidst all the unending circular discussions. IDK how to find that out, or if it would show us anything of value one way or the other. I just think it is an avenue that ought to be looked at.

I think you are right, if they had a POI, they ought to be all over that guy. That is what would generate some useful tips, imho.

FWIW, I think your general opinion here is likely close to the truth. I think it is largely cold, largely due to ineptitude and probably some confirmation bias on the part of LE. Such a shame.

As I have said several times, it was very telling to me that there were not more LE at that podium on 4/22, compared to the large contingent present at an early PC. Telling in a not good way.

I just remembered LE said at the April PC that they were only just beginning, and to have patience with them, like they had been on the wrong track for 2 years. So it is actually a 'new' case really, which is why I am hopeful.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Which is why I have asked if there is any way to see if any cease and desist orders, or something like that, have been filed. Did not notice anybody answering that question, maybe nobody noticed my questions on that amidst all the unending circular discussions. IDK how to find that out, or if it would show us anything of value one way or the other. I just think it is an avenue that ought to be looked at.

I think you are right, if they had a POI, they ought to be all over that guy. That is what would generate some useful tips, imho.

FWIW, I think your general opinion here is likely close to the truth. I think it is largely cold, largely due to ineptitude and probably some confirmation bias on the part of LE. Such a shame.

As I have said several times, it was very telling to me that there were not more LE at that podium on 4/22, compared to the large contingent present at an early PC. Telling in a not good way.

Take this info with a grain of salt because I'm not an expert at finding court filings. It seems that everything related to this case is sealed upon recording.

Here's a good place to start:
Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase
search by attorney Mcleland to see all of his filings. If you want to go back through the early records, go with attorney Ives.

I'd really like to know if the autopsy report was public before the order to seal it was issued and granted on 3-28-2017. If you want a refresher on the order, search by this case #: 08C01-1703-MC-000094

 

[Kudzuu]

MOO I have been thinking that now they have 5 words out there for linguists to work with. They must gave a good idea where his accent is from.
It is very like Delphi accent, just a little less lilting.

I'm not great with northern accents but it seemed more nasal than the Midwestern accent, like a friend of mine from northern Indiana. Edited by me

 

[Cutiekitty]

I don't believe they are desperately appealing to the public. I think the April presser was very much designed/intended to stir the local community there (hopefully resulting in more info divulged) while also intended to more widely keep this crime under the spotlight, keeping pressure applied and attention fixed keenly on this guy/guys.

I agree. The PC didn’t seem desperate to me either. Seemed like they were a little frustrated - I feel like it’s not because they have no clue who BG is, but because they do and he’s been right there all along. My gut feeling after watching the PC was - they are close, they’ve got something.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think he has made contact with LE in some why. That, in my own opinion was the reason for much of the scripted April press conference..."you want to know what we know".

If LE know, he wanted to know what they know, then they must have identified him so far. The evidence for him being in Delphi that day/that time may be missing still. The evidence re the car at the CBS building belonging to him may still be missing. His accomplice still isn't known or there is no evidence for nailing the second person. For their charges LE would need these infos re "who did what/where/when exactly", I think.
MOO

 

[Cutiekitty]

Maybe they do have something that they didn't have in April, but I doubt it.

The April PC was very clearly a broad appeal for general information. If they had a specific I individual in mind, the pressure would localized. A new sketch that could resemble any white guy USA, an age rage that includes 30% of American men, and a qualifier that he had lived, worked, or currently lives in Delphi is obviously not going to make any assailant nervous.

Now, if they said something like "we have reason to believe based on evidence we have gathered that our suspect is a local male, approx. 20 years of age, that we are currently investigating...." I'd believe they have a specific person in mind.

If they really want to put pressure on him, its pretty easy to get a warrant to look at school/work attendence records, harrass friends, get a warrant to search his home and/or vehicle.

BBM - IMO they is exactly what they did with the exception of stating a specific age. They didn’t say it was based on evidence gathered rather they said based on 1000 of hours of investigation and new information.

Im going to go back and watch all of the previous PCs for comparison. I’ve watched them, but it’s been a few months.

 

[NameUser]

I like many of you go back and fourth on this case.

My thought today is that they don't have DNA, a weapon or any other substantial evidence. They could know who he is and that he did it, but they just don't have enough to go to a grand jury or enough to convict. They cannot act and risk the chance of letting this creep get off scott free.

Any legal experts know if each girls murder could be tried separately, if say LE has a weak case?

 

[SilentRogue]

I like many of you go back and fourth on this case.

My thought today is that they don't have DNA, a weapon or any other substantial evidence. They could know who he is and that he did it, but they just don't have enough to go to a grand jury or enough to convict. They cannot act and risk the chance of letting this creep get off scott free.

Any legal experts know if each girls murder could be tried separately, if say LE has a weak case?

There would be two separate charges of manslaughter. The defendant would argue it violates his right to due process to charge them separately, as the evidence is likely the same.

They would undoubtedly and unwaveringly charge any and all defendants with both murders and try them together.

 

[Boxer]

I'm not great with northern accents but it seemed more nasal than the Midwestern accent, like a friend of mine from northern Indiana. Edited by me

I agree. Just like Delphi but a little more urban. Maybe a Delphi accent that has its high lilt "accents"subdued by living in a more monotone accent area.
I hear this:

RL says HEE- ILL
BG says HEEUL

But MOO BG says "hill" the same way just without the top note.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I like many of you go back and fourth on this case.

My thought today is that they don't have DNA, a weapon or any other substantial evidence. They could know who he is and that he did it, but they just don't have enough to go to a grand jury or enough to convict. They cannot act and risk the chance of letting this creep get off scott free.

Any legal experts know if each girls murder could be tried separately, if say LE has a weak case?

I go back and forth with the DNA issue. Do they have some and it can be explained away or do they have some and it’s not really useable is what I go back and forth on.

Not a legal expert, but I don’t think they’d separate the cases. Both deaths are the result of the same incident.