Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[poupetty77]

Well one is one of the suspects father and the other is a civillian who has no emotional ties to the suspect, just his own family and community so their approach and circumstances are going to be different.

Not only a suspect's father, a man who was going live, as it was happening, through his only son going from missing and potential victim of murder to suspect, to on the run, to dead. Give him a break!

 

[sprucetip]

View attachment 208583 View attachment 208584
source -
How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

This map isn’t copying correctly because the print is lost but going by where the bodies were found, it seems as if the two backtracked at some point from the location where the sleeping bag and backpack were found further downstream.

Disorientation? Exhausted, they hoped to hitch a ride to Hudson Bay as opposed to struggling through the dense bush while sinking in muskeg? Hiding from air searches at a lower elevation? We’ll never know but I’d bet the rainy weather made that steep slope impossible to climb back up in a weakened condition. I think those trees are lodgepole pine and in the north they can grow to a height of 80 ft, but in a photo the height of a typical evergreen tree causes the banks to appear much less formidable.

Those are spruce trees mixed in with some aspen and they don't grow very tall in the boreal forest. Trees this far north have stunted growth because of the climate, soil and permafrost. Scrambling up the bank where there is no trees would have been nearly impossible, but where they are downed, it would have been possible to climb up. It may not have been easy if it was raining and muddy and they were tired but still possible IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not only a suspect's father, a man who was going live, as it was happening, through his only son going from missing and potential victim of murder to suspect, to on the run, to dead. Give him a break!

I wasn’t only referring to events as they were occurring. For one example, that BB was out berry picking with his family and wasn’t ashamed to admit it - if I were to take a poll of urbanites I’m certain if the topic of berry picking was mentioned, even from a u-pick farm, the vast majority of us would prefer to just buy them from a grocery store. Yet berry picking can serve as a valuable bonding family time and I can say that because I have lots of good memories of family berry picking adventures.

In contrast, the hostility displayed by AS toward his ex-wife, referring to her as “Hex” in his book for example eludes to a bitter toxic relationship as a result of the early breakdown of B’s parent’s marriage which he clearly had to have been impacted by as he was growing up. I’m not judging, just pointing out the contrast.

 

[poupetty77]

I wasn’t only referring to events as they were occurring. For one example, that BB was out berry picking with his family and wasn’t ashamed to admit it - if I were to take a poll of urbanites I’m certain if the topic of berry picking was mentioned, even from a u-pick farm, the vast majority of us would prefer to just buy them from a grocery store. Yet berry picking can serve as a valuable bonding family time and I can say that because I have lots of good memories of family berry picking adventures.

In contrast, the hostility displayed by AS toward his ex-wife, referring to her as “Hex” in his book for example eludes to a bitter toxic relationship as a result of the early breakdown of his parent’s marriage which B was subjected to as he was growing up. I’m not judging, just pointing out the contrast.

Maybe BB was given a chance to pick berries with his children and AS wasn't? Or maybe something else. We don't know.

But apparently AS cared enough to not only have his 16 years old son live with him for as long as he could, but he took him to work with him, trying to teach him working hard and good values, sharing time with Bryer, That is as good as cherry picking in my book.

We don't know anything about BB as a family man. He is probably an amazing person, but using the little we know to compare to AS is a bit much, IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Those are spruce trees mixed in with some aspen and they don't grow very tall in the boreal forest. Trees this far north have stunted growth because of the climate, soil and permafrost. Scrambling up the bank where there is no trees would have been nearly impossible, but where they are downed, it would have been possible to climb up. It may not have been easy if it was raining and muddy and they were tired but still possible IMO.

I don’t think we can say anything is possible by looking at a photo. We don’t know their state of physical (or mental) health or how long they were down there. However BB also stated the cliffs were very high and difficult to climb and in the Globe article it’s mentioned they were as high as 100 ft. That’s equivalent to a 10 storey building. Even if they found a gorge to climb down, each side of it would consist of high embankments toward the level ground above the cliffs.

The two had to be desperate for water if they had no other water source except to climb down to the river from time to time, if that’s the reason they got themselves trapped. Humans require water to survive and without a water supply, lugging water and other supplies through the bush and muskeg while hiding from overhead police helicopters would prove an impossible task.

“A water jug was found nearby” the damaged boat but iirc that was upstream. I wonder if they got rid of it earlier when the going was much easier.
Canada murders: abandoned rowboat provides new lead in manhunt

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe BB was given a chance to pick berries with his children and AS wasn't? Or maybe something else. We don't know.

But apparently AS cared enough to not only have his 16 years old son live with him for as long as he could, but he took him to work with him, trying to teach him working hard and good values, sharing time with Bryer, That is as good as cherry picking in my book.

We don't know anything about BB as a family man. He is probably an amazing person, but using the little we know to compare to AS is a bit much, IMO

I don’t recall that AS has never stating the reason behind for his absence from his sons life between the age of 8 and 16. Once again, I’m not judging AS, just pointing out facts he’s mentioned. But after that gap of so many years, almost half of Bs life, I think the father/son relationship was not as bonded as AS might’ve believed. Obviously there was another side of B that he never knew and hopefully he’s able to come to terms with the fact that sometimes people just make horrible choices that can’t be undone and it’s not directly the fault of any one other person.

 

[sprucetip]

I don’t think we can say anything is possible by looking at a photo. We don’t know their state of physical (or mental) health or how long they were down there. However BB also stated the cliffs were very high and difficult to climb and in the Globe article it’s mentioned they were as high as 100 ft. That’s equivalent to a 10 storey building. Even if they found a gorge to climb down, each side of it would consist of high embankments toward the level ground above the cliffs.

The two had to be desperate for water if they had no other water source except to climb down to the river from time to time, if that’s the reason they got themselves trapped. Humans require water to survive and without a water supply, lugging water and other supplies through the bush and muskeg while hiding from overhead police helicopters would prove an impossible task.

“A water jug was found nearby” the damaged boat but iirc that was upstream. I wonder if they got rid of it earlier when the going was much easier.
Canada murders: abandoned rowboat provides new lead in manhunt

Difficult to climb sure, but not impossible. The "gorge" was full of downed trees to use to climb back up. It probably wouldn't be fun or easy but imo, doable.

And how desperate for water they were depends on how many days they were alive. If it was just a few days, they wouldn't be desperate.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Does he have inside knowledge? Because it sounds like he is talking about what we saw in the interviews + he has his own theory of video games/internet being to blame.

I'm going to guess he has inside knowledge or an "old buddy" in RCMP maybe or even access to files only because he doesn't say it's a theory but seems to state it matter of factly. Who knows though! Definitely interesting details. All MOO

 

[poupetty77]

I'm going to guess he has inside knowledge or an "old buddy" in RCMP maybe or even access to files only because he doesn't say it's a theory but seems to state it matter of factly. Who knows though! Definitely interesting details. All MOO

I am not sure they would share any information with someone who has a blog and write on it as they want to say the least possible about the case to avoid a copycat. Also, there is a lot of retired RCMP officers, I don't think they can all just ask about the case. But I might be wrong, JMO.

I think he uses his experience a an ex officer to interpret the facts of the report and what he saw in the news. But I think he should be more transparent about him having any kind of knowledge about the case or him just giving his opinion IMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I am not sure they would share any information with someone who has a blog and write on it as they want to say the least possible about the case to avoid a copycat. Also, there is a lot of retired RCMP officers, I don't think they can all just ask about the case. But I might be wrong, JMO.

I think he uses his experience a an ex officer to interpret the facts of the report and what he saw in the news. But I think he should be more transparent about him having any kind of knowledge about the case or him just giving his opinion IMO

Yes, I wish I knew as I'm very curious!

I think it's maybe common for seasoned investigators to look at the crimes and probably tell exactly what went down before needing evidence to support it by having years of experience. Could be the same with this fella.

I don't recall it being mentioned finding SKS ammo with burned camper though, but I could've forgot! That's something hard to pull out of thin air. Again, I suppose I could post a question and ask. There's a comment section!

 

[Zella]

Yes, I wish I knew as I'm very curious!

I think it's maybe common for seasoned investigators to look at the crimes and probably tell exactly what went down before needing evidence to support it by having years of experience. Could be the same with this fella.

I don't recall it being mentioned finding SKS ammo with burned camper though, but I could've forgot! That's something hard to pull out of thin air. Again, I suppose I could post a question and ask. There's a comment section!

It's in the report about the ammo, but it was in the truck/around the scene since the camper itself was burnt out.

Honestly, I think the writer pulled almost everything from the report and mainstream media and then added his own assumptions--he's also sloppy with details, like how he spells McLeod as MacLeod at times and the detail about the camper versus the truck. (He also managed to misspell Liard Hot Springs--I suppose that can seem petty, but to me this indicates he is not a careful writer or researcher and it makes me wary of anything he says or claims.)

I don't think he got anything from insider information--I think if he did, he would have noted it.

Also, I have seen his website before relating to other cases, and he often just seems to sloppily repeat stuff he has read elsewhere.

All MOO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm not great at timelines but according to the timeline:

B&K were in Chetwynd on the morning of the 14th then Fort Nelson at 5pm. So they were either lingering around Fort Nelson or Liard Springs (arriving around 9pm if driving with no stops) for some hours.

They likely came across the couple after 10:30pm July 14th (last witness) but before 1:50am July 15th since they were seen driving northbound by Liard Lodge at that time. So murder maybe between 11:30pm - 12:30am?

I think that 10:30pm witness encountered B&K after 9pn somewhere and was warning the couple as it's possible they were in the same area during that time. Strange the witness hasn't been found, but maybe a bush man living off grid or doesn't want the limelight.

Don't mean to repeat info if already posted, just rereading report and I forget some things! Been busy, but still trying to follow the case

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It's in the report about the ammo, but it was in the truck/around the scene since the camper itself was burnt out.

Honestly, I think the writer pulled almost everything from the report and mainstream media and then added his own assumptions--he's also sloppy with details, like how he spells McLeod as MacLeod at times and the detail about the camper versus the truck. (He also managed to misspell Liard Hot Springs--I suppose that can seem petty, but to me this indicates he is not a careful writer or researcher and it makes me wary of anything he says or claims.)

I don't think he got anything from insider information--I think if he did, he would have noted it.

Also, I have seen his website before relating to other cases, and he often just seems to sloppily repeat stuff he has read elsewhere.

All MOO.

Ok thanks! So it was in report about the ammo. I noticed when I went back he's a blogger for Huffington Post and writes crime books so could definitely be putting his "spin" on it.

I do know people talk and leaks happen even in these cases. I've seen info posted on Reddit about a crime scene who was told by an attending family member who was a first responder as the info wasn't public, then turned out right after the trial.

But in this instance he might be an over zealous writer wanting to plump up the report. I didn't even notice his errors oops! Glad you did, as it that's not a great sign lol

 

[Zella]

Ok thanks! So it was in report about the ammo. I noticed when I went back he's a blogger for Huffington Post and writes crime books so could definitely be putting his "spin" on it.

I do know people talk and leaks happen even in these cases. I've seen info posted on Reddit about a crime scene who was told by an attending family member who was a first responder as the info wasn't public, then turned out right after the trial.

But in this instance he might be an over zealous writer wanting to plump up the report. I didn't even notice his errors oops! Glad you did, as it that's not a great sign lol

Yep, I advise treating his blog with caution.

His comments are telling, too, about how sloppy he is in his writing.

He claims in the comments that one thing is stated in the official report (multiple local youths reported Kam and Bryer's behavior), but he is not repeating what the official report actually says (one unidentified person of unstated age and location came forward and contradicted all the positive reports about them). Seems like he is mixing mainstream media reports and his own conclusions in and claiming it's what the official RCMP report says, too. That automatically set off my hinky meter, as did my previous experience with his writing.

 

[poupetty77]

Yep, I advise treating his blog with caution.

His comments are telling, too, about how sloppy he is in his writing.

He claims in the comments that one thing is stated in the report (multiple local youths reported Kam and Bryer's behavior), but he is not repeating what the official report actually says (one unidentified person of unstated age and location came forward and contradicted all the positive reports about them). Seems like he is mixing mainstream media reports and his own conclusions in and claiming it's what the report says, too. That automatically set off my hinky meter, as did my previous experience with his writing.

Yes, I definitely gathered from the report and the conference that it was the only person who came forward with that info, it seems like nobody else around them saw anything.

The officer also said that there was no planning or no signs on the computer or at home. I might have misunderstood , but I think that what the officer said during the conference is that they didn't watch horrible stuff on the internet and there was no trace of any search/view history that could explain their actions (or they might have decided not to share the info for whatever reason).

 

[Jan424]

Yep, I advise treating his blog with caution.

His comments are telling, too, about how sloppy he is in his writing.

He claims in the comments that one thing is stated in the official report (multiple local youths reported Kam and Bryer's behavior), but he is not repeating what the official report actually says (one unidentified person of unstated age and location came forward and contradicted all the positive reports about them). Seems like he is mixing mainstream media reports and his own conclusions in and claiming it's what the official RCMP report says, too. That automatically set off my hinky meter, as did my previous experience with his writing.

Dang... so now I’ll take everything he said with a grain of salt. And I thought we were getting more interesting details too, such as who called the police and what they actually said. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, I definitely gathered from the report and the conference that it was the only person who came forward with that info, it seems like nobody else around them saw anything.

The officer also said that there was no planning or no signs on the computer or at home. I might have misunderstood , but I think that what the officer said during the conference is that they didn't watch horrible stuff on the internet and there was no trace of any search/view history that could explain their actions (or they might have decided not to share the info for whatever reason).

Maybe the just writer drew his own conclusion because it was mentioned the person who came forward knew both B&K. I suppose it could’ve been a teacher or another adult but more than likely it was a person their age who was given a open tiny window into the diabolical capability of the two.
“The witness knew McLeod and Schmegelsky and believed the boys may have been involved in the murders," the police report says.

"This is the first time that police learned that McLeod and Schmegelsky may be capable of the murders which conflicted with original witness statements from family and associates."...”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schmegelsky-mcleod-homicides-manhunt-rcmp-1.5299115

As for the home search, iirc during the PC mention pertained to police seeking evidence of preplanning and/or motive? For example, early on the possibility of a manifesto was often speculated about, even here. But I don’t recall the RCMP stating anything about the nature of their internet or gaming pursuits in general.

Regardless, nothing written in his blog would be far out in left field, whether true or not IMO. B&K were merciless killers, far from “good boys”.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Maybe the just writer drew his own conclusion because it was mentioned the person who came forward knew both B&K. I suppose it could’ve been a teacher or another adult but more than likely it was a person their age who was given a open tiny window into the diabolical capability of the two.
“The witness knew McLeod and Schmegelsky and believed the boys may have been involved in the murders," the police report says.

"This is the first time that police learned that McLeod and Schmegelsky may be capable of the murders which conflicted with original witness statements from family and associates."...”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/schmegelsky-mcleod-homicides-manhunt-rcmp-1.5299115

As for the home search, iirc during the PC mention pertained to police seeking evidence of preplanning and/or motive? For example, early on the possibility of a manifesto was often speculated about, even here. But I don’t recall the RCMP stating anything about the nature of their internet or gaming pursuits in general.

Regardless, nothing written in his blog would be far out in left field, whether true or not IMO. B&K were merciless killers, far from “good boys”.

Update : He did reply to my question/comment about drinking water and said he theorized partly from what Billy Beardy said and thinking it out.

He only answered my one question though (too bad!) as I asked if details were from insider info or his experience in law enforcement. Oh well! Guess we can take it for what it is

 

[Jan424]

Maybe the just writer drew his own conclusion because it was mentioned the person who came forward knew both B&K. I suppose it could’ve been a teacher or another adult but more than likely it was a person their age who was given a open tiny window into the diabolical capability of the two.
“The witness knew McLeod and Schmegelsky and believed the boys may have been involved in the murders," the police report says.

"This is the first time that police learned that McLeod and Schmegelsky may be capable of the murders which conflicted with original witness statements from family and associates."...”

But I don’t recall the RCMP stating anything about the nature of their internet or gaming pursuits in general.

SBM
Agree. Someone was compelled to put that call into the RCMP, which means they knew something about them.
I also don’t recall any mention of their internet viewing, either.

 

[Chingaling]

Difficult to climb sure, but not impossible. The "gorge" was full of downed trees to use to climb back up. It probably wouldn't be fun or easy but imo, doable.

And how desperate for water they were depends on how many days they were alive. If it was just a few days, they wouldn't be desperate.

I agree.I don't see why two healthy strapping young men couldn't have climbed back up.I mean they climbed down.I think one of them may have been injured,maybe from a fall down the cliff,or were sick and starving and dehydrated and weak.I don't think they would have ended it if they were physically able to keep running.