GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[molly1255]

That must have been quite a call in any case. 111 minutes right before baby murdering. Or maybe he was relaxing on the phone with her while the girls were already murdered. I think the mistress was following SW on FB and knew all about it, albeit without knowing the gender until maybe that week.

I feel certain she was following SW on facebook, too. Why wouldn't she? She was dating a married guy whose wife posts frequently. Shanann was her competition.

 

[Pasasana]

I feel certain she was following SW on facebook, too. Why wouldn't she? She was dating a married guy whose wife posts frequently. Shanann was her competition.

I'm also sure that she knew SW was pregnant. I wonder if the bigger deal was that she was carrying a boy. That was how N was going to be different/"better". She was going to give CW a boy. And that was what CW had to keep from N.

 

[molly1255]

I'm also sure that she knew SW was pregnant. I wonder if the bigger deal was that she was carrying a boy. That was how N was going to be different/"better". She was going to give CW a boy. And that was what CW had to keep from N.

I also think she knew SW was pregnant. I think it is highly probable she was reading Shanann's facebook page. She may not have ever admitted this to CW, but why not take advantage of being able to get all of this valuable information? Her comments after the murders that she was upset because he lied to her would be laughable if this wasn't such a horrible tragedy. Of course he lied. He was a cheating married man.

In spite of NK's attempts to make it appear CW was more invested in her than she was in him in her LE interviews, I don't buy it. She was looking at wedding dresses online and she was insistent he get an apartment asap. She was even in control of his diet. I don't think a pregnancy would have stopped her, but if her ability to have her only "first" with CW was for her to give him a son and she then found out Shanann was having a boy, that could have been a very big deal to her . That could have been a big topic of the conversations she was having with CW in the days before the murders that she couldn't "remember" what they talked about. It is interesting that the baby's gender was confirmed within a week of the murders.

I don't think she knew he was planning to murder his family, but I think she did know she was playing a dangerous game and she knew someone was going to get hurt if there was a divorce. To me, it seemed she didn't care because her parents divorced when she was very young and she was fine! Actually, she was literally running with scissors when she got involved with him. JMO

 

[mocity]

I think absolutely she was following SW on facebook and her facebook had alot of information.

 

[NoSI]

So I am reading a book right and wanted to share some of the highlights as they relate to psychopaths:

• Why do some people do terrible things? Empathy has to do with anatomical structure, mirror neurons. These cells are located in the brain’s motor cortex, where muscle movement and control are initiated. Mirror neuron circuitry allows us to “step into the shoes” of others, to feel their pain. The more empathetic the person, the stronger the person’s mirror neuron response. And the weaker the mirror neuron response, the less empathy he or she has. Psychopathic personalities may have a dearth of mirror neurons.
  
  
• Much of what the world calls evil originates in the pathological self-centeredness of individuals who pursue instant gratification and use others for their self-aggrandizement. For instance, psychopaths can have lustful sex, but for them the experience is devoid of any intimacy or commitment; the partner is essentially an instrument of masturbation (Yikes).
  
  
• Psychopaths experience chronic feelings of emptiness and of personal isolation. They have “stimulus hunger”, a need for constant stimulation, perhaps to dispel their diffuse sense of the meaninglessness of life.
  
  
• Unable to self-reflect, unable to feel sadness about lost opportunities or relationships, stuck in pattern of deep mood swings, psychopaths exhibit a value system that is more like that of a child than that of an adult. What they admire are outward things – beauty, wealth, power, admiration by others – and what they discount (and despise) are hard-won abilities, achievements, acceptance of responsibility, and loyalty to ideals.
  

I will keep sharing if I come across interesting information if you guys (oh no, Delphi case...) are interested. Just started reading this book.

Resource: Dr. Robert I. Simon, Bad Men Do What Good Men Dream - A Forensic Psychiatrist Illuminates the Darker Side of Human Behavior, American Psychiatric Publishing , Inc.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

lol! IIRC, Cece had an allergy to tree nuts. I'm no expert on this, but I did find this on the Internet:

"Tree nuts grow on trees, whereas peanuts grow underground and are considered legumes. Tree nuts include almonds, Brazil nuts, cashews, hazelnuts, pecans, pistachios and walnuts."

I recall reading that nutgate involved pistachios.

I think part of the issue with nut allergies is that tree nuts and peanuts are usually processed in the same place, so there is a risk of cross contamination.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think part of the issue with nut allergies is that tree nuts and peanuts are usually processed in the same place, so there is a risk of cross contamination.

Recently there was an article, a girl was traveling with her family on an airline, they had something like 20 family members sitting in the seats all around her. They looked over the area, and made sure that nut products did not get anywhere near her. She went in Anaphylaxis suddenly, and almost died. There were a couple of pistachio shells left in a corner under the seat by a previous passenger.

That inlaw was so wrong in exposing Cece to nuts just because she should learn that she can't always have what she wants. Ignorance and spite at the possible expense of the life of a 3 year old.

 

[CeeCeeCat]

I am pages and pages behind, just catching up now. And I don’t read the Daily Mail, so was unaware of the ‘Letters from Christopher’ carp. I wish I was still unaware.
Now, having read the excerpts/letters, I feel sick. Sick to my stomach that this self-centred, brutal, selfish, narcissistic turd of a human, not content with slaughtering his beautiful family, is still, from the comfort of his grey concrete box, doing all he can to hurt Shannan’s family - for what? Is he so desperate for attention he needs to make his murders sound even worse than they were? Killing his children twice? Drugging Shannan with Oxy? Why is he doing this, I wonder.
I hate him. I wish he would just be allowed to rot away never to be heard of again, no visitors, no contact with anyone - not even the prison staff. Let him live out the rest of his life alone. God will not be there to welcome him when he dies and I’m pretty sure Satan won’t be that keen to admit him to Hell, either. CW is beyond evil.

 

[CeeCeeCat]

The weather has been absolutely beautiful here the past two days. Perfect blue skies and sunshine. I’ve been thinking about how Shanann and the kids would be enjoying this lovely weather and last days of Summer as Fall and Winter move in.

I was thinking the exact same thing the other morning. I live near an ancient abbey built on woodlands, and the other morning it looked completely breathtaking. Sunshine, a riot of colourful leaves and a crispy-cold early morning. I thought of Shannan and the girls as I walked through the woods...what they’d be doing now if the world was a kinder place...

 

[La Louve]

Recently there was an article, a girl was traveling with her family on an airline, they had something like 20 family members sitting in the seats all around her. They looked over the area, and made sure that nut products did not get anywhere near her. She went in Anaphylaxis suddenly, and almost died. There were a couple of pistachio shells left in a corner under the seat by a previous passenger.

That inlaw was so wrong in exposing Cece to nuts just because she should learn that she can't always have what she wants. Ignorance and spite at the possible expense of the life of a 3 year old.

BBM IMO that was just the excuse CW's mother gave him when Shannan called her out on it to CW. Remember, the VI that was most likely CW's sister posted here a complete lie about the contents of the ice cream, and totally denied there were any nuts anywhere in the house. Evil spite for sure! The in-laws apparently hated Shannan so much they risked the life of one of their grandchildren, just to prove some sort of moronic point and get one up on Shannan.

Though it just occurred to me that perhaps it was done deliberately with the intent of provoking Shannan to leave CW. They sure seemed intent on making Shannan miserable whenever possible, pretty much from day one.

It's amazing that Shannan stood as strong as she did against them. She got no support from stupid CW at all. Many women would've left long before he'd had a chance to get her pregnant a third time.

What a bunch of hideous monsters.

 

[NuttMegg]

BBM IMO that was just the excuse CW's mother gave him when Shannan called her out on it to CW. Remember, the VI that was most likely CW's sister posted here a complete lie about the contents of the ice cream, and totally denied there were any nuts anywhere in the house. Evil spite for sure! The in-laws apparently hated Shannan so much they risked the life of one of their grandchildren, just to prove some sort of moronic point and get one up on Shannan.

Though it just occurred to me that perhaps it was done deliberately with the intent of provoking Shannan to leave CW. They sure seemed intent on making Shannan miserable whenever possible, pretty much from day one.

It's amazing that Shannan stood as strong as she did against them. She got no support from stupid CW at all. Many women would've left long before he'd had a chance to get her pregnant a third time.

What a bunch of hideous monsters.

She must have thought she was going crazy, her in-laws pooh pooh allergies, wave nut products around in front of the kid and snarl that Cece (3) has to learn she can't have everything.

Then dearly beloved arrives and tries to poison her to death, or at least take the life of her little fetus. Of course he could have just damaged the fetus, but what the hey, he was going to kill them all one way or another. Who got CW to write the letter re if something happened to anyone it would be her fault? When that letter was written, possibly dictated by someone else, was it already known he had tried to poison her to death with OXY? If so, why did no one in that lovely crew go the police?

The family is trying to clear him on "gone nutso" grounds, IMO. The author revealed (source Daily Mail) that Cindy STILL is trying to get SW blamed for the murders, and that is why the fallout between the author and Cindy Watts.

With all the author's unprofessional typos, lack of background on the case, thoughts left out there on the page with no particular finish, I still think we owe Cadle thanks for getting the horrible story out. It's printed, it's out, and will be sold far and wide, imprinting on the public the evil that resides in that man. Yes I know we can't believe half of what he says, but the book could have been a thorough assassination of SW had the relative won her way. And some details have remained essentially the same from February 18 thru now.

 

[NuttMegg]

What could have happened when the in-law ignored Cece's allergies. (Yes, I know that reactions are not predictable, not always severe) https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/food-allergies-airplane-horror-stories-wellness/index.html

 

[JDough]

She must have thought she was going crazy, her in-laws pooh pooh allergies, wave nut products around in front of the kid and snarl that Cece (3) has to learn she can't have everything.

Then dearly beloved arrives and tries to poison her to death, or at least take the life of her little fetus. Of course he could have just damaged the fetus, but what the hey, he was going to kill them all one way or another. Who got CW to write the letter re if something happened to anyone it would be her fault? When that letter was written, possibly dictated by someone else, was it already known he had tried to poison her to death with OXY? If so, why did no one in that lovely crew go the police?

The family is trying to clear him on "gone nutso" grounds, IMO. The author revealed (source Daily Mail) that Cindy STILL is trying to get SW blamed for the murders, and that is why the fallout between the author and Cindy Watts.

With all the author's unprofessional typos, lack of background on the case, thoughts left out there on the page with no particular finish, I still think we owe Cadle thanks for getting the horrible story out. It's printed, it's out, and will be sold far and wide, imprinting on the public the evil that resides in that man. Yes I know we can't believe half of what he says, but the book could have been a thorough assassination of SW had the relative won her way. And some details have remained essentially the same from February 18 thru now.

Your post reminds me of the person "close to CW" who (very early on), joined WS, to try and convince us that SW was crazy. That the nut-gate incident never happened. The vile things she said about SW are still with me. I remember thinking, at the time, that if the VI truly cared about CW, there is no way she would talk about his wife in that manner. I was wrong. That family doesn't know what love is.

Obviously she couldn't convince us to think the same as she and Mama Watts did, and stopped posting. Hope she still reads here- I want them to know we all see them for what they are: jealous, evil, lying liars. The "Christian" family who raised CW to become the man he is must not have read that verse in the bible that says a person's tongue is the deadliest weapon, and should be controlled at all times.

I haven't read the book. Don't know if I will. But I'm glad it came out. Before Mama Watts's book. I hope they read it, and see what a vile monster CW is. A man that can claim he still loves his mistress after smothering and choking the life out of his entire family to be with her is Satan himself, IMO.

And- Mama Watts, your book won't make me sympathetic towards any of you, or change the way I feel about your Son. Period.

 

[Gardenista]

Your post reminds me of the person "close to CW" who (very early on), joined WS, to try and convince us that SW was crazy. That the nut-gate incident never happened. The vile things she said about SW are still with me. I remember thinking, at the time, that if the VI truly cared about CW, there is no way she would talk about his wife in that manner. I was wrong. That family doesn't know what love is.

Obviously she couldn't convince us to think the same as she and Mama Watts did, and stopped posting. Hope she still reads here- I want them to know we all see them for what they are: jealous, evil, lying liars. The "Christian" family who raised CW to become the man he is must not have read that verse in the bible that says a person's tongue is the deadliest weapon, and should be controlled at all times.

I haven't read the book. Don't know if I will. But I'm glad it came out. Before Mama Watts's book. I hope they read it, and see what a vile monster CW is. A man that can claim he still loves his mistress after smothering and choking the life out of his entire family to be with her is Satan himself, IMO.

And- Mama Watts, your book won't make me sympathetic towards any of you, or change the way I feel about your Son. Period.

I have a feeling I was the first WS member the VI put on ignore. Badge of honor.

I read the book and I am NOT glad it came out. It is disgusting IMO - full of inferences by the author that SW deserved to be murdered.

 

[CeeCeeCat]

I have to admit I am still feeling sick at what I read last night. I’m not reading any more (I really don’t need an excuse to avoid that vile rag, the Daily Mail, anyway) and I am staying a zillion miles away from the fiction that Ma Watts comes up with.
Like @JDough, I hope CW’s family read here now and then. You know, just enough to know the amount of contempt and disgust we feel for them. The grotesque apple didn’t fall far from the narcissistic tree, did it.
Through all of this, I hold Shan’ann’s family and friends in my heart. I can’t begin to imagine the nightmare they live in and wish I could send them a world of love and peace and healing. They deserve that much, at the very least.

 

[Beltonian]

I was thinking a little about NK again...Clearly it was super flattering to her that CW was eager to leave a wife with three little babies for her...But I cannot get in her mind and understand - she is young and ok looking with a good job - was ready to settle for this divorcee with huge child support for long years, having to put up with Shanann's kids all the time in their lives?? Was she that desperate? She sure did not think he actually is going to kill them all for her?? Or was she and it is more to the story ?...

 

[MsBetsy]

I think part of the issue with nut allergies is that tree nuts and peanuts are usually processed in the same place, so there is a risk of cross contamination.

Yes, that's exactly why Shanann wanted to read the labels. Many products that do not even have nuts in them have warnings on them.
But in their ignorance the family made her out to be crazy and paranoid, claiming she accused them of trying to kill her kids.
Imo

 

[BeachSky]

I was thinking a little about NK again...Clearly it was super flattering to her that CW was eager to leave a wife with three little babies for her...But I cannot get in her mind and understand - she is young and ok looking with a good job - was ready to settle for this divorcee with huge child support for long years, having to put up with Shanann's kids all the time in their lives?? Was she that desperate? She sure did not think he actually is going to kill them all for her?? Or was she and it is more to the story ?...

Why did she google if people hated Amber Frey?!
I listened to a recording of her under questioning by a detective...
wow she seemed extremely “smitten” with CW’s huge house & Lexus....SW’s salary, must be raking in ( at least) 140K a year.
This woman presents cold.
She talks casually about it all.
To listen to her made me just ill.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a feeling I was the first WS member the VI put on ignore. Badge of honor.

I read the book and I am NOT glad it came out. It is disgusting IMO - full of inferences by the author that SW deserved to be murdered.

I was on ignore after I asked several questions about the nut incident. I was wondering for the longest time why my questions weren't being answered.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why did she google if people hated Amber Frey?!
I listened to a recording of her under questioning by a detective...
wow she seemed extremely “smitten” with CW’s huge house & Lexus....SW’s salary, must be raking in ( at least) 140K a year.
This woman presents cold.
She talks casually about it all.
To listen to her made me just ill.

MOO

She was probably trying to get a feel for how the public was going to respond to her. Imo