UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #4

[Kiranerys]

Did her friend S call or text her when she "stood her up" that night?,if I was meeting a friend and they didnt turn up I would at the very least text to see if they were still coming,or if something had come up etc

 

[MajorLang]

Did her friend S call or text her when she "stood her up" that night?,if I was meeting a friend and they didnt turn up I would at the very least text to see if they were still coming,or if something had come up etc

Yes SC did text CL that night and jokingly suggested she had been stood up again
It was only the next day that SC started to worry.
This suggested that CL had done this before and so SC was not overly worried.

 

[Eve71]

Why would Police then go in a completely different direction then? They must have evidence to suggest this.
I agree however that all of the sightings on CCTV or reported sightings suggest abduction but this could all be staged to look this way.

I’ve no idea Major. I float between the police theory and stranger abduction but to me abduction makes more sense. I just can’t see why the police could not make anything stick to at least one of the four. I also can’t fathom why those four men would want to kill Claudia or cover for anyone who did. She’s been gone a long time and even if drug related, none of those four have been arrested or charged with any drugs offence . Something I’m sure would have happened had they been big time dealers willing to kill. Imo, the police went on the rumours C was having lots of sex with married men, put two and two together and came up with 5 .
I think to get a true picture of events shown on CCTV that night and next morning we need to see previous CCTV of the usual comings and going in that area. I’d wager it’s not very different to what we’ve seen.

 

[Mrs Marple]

If we all had to choose one theory as to what happened to Claudia, what would yours be? I’d have to go with stranger abduction on her way to work and her body buried somewhere. All things considered it seems the only possible explanation, imo.

Honestly don't know. The police think she left for work that morning. Then there's the sighting of a rucksack similar to hers on grass on her route to work that has never been discounted. Is it possible it was Haliwell? I don't think this can be discounted. Dark man the night before might be completely innocent. He might have died given the length of time it took them to release the CCTV.

Yes the police are going down a particular route but they do get it wrong sometimes. Probably more frequently than we know.

 

[Kiranerys]

Yes SC did text CL that night and jokingly suggested she had been stood up again
It was only the next day that SC started to worry.
This suggested that CL had done this before and so SC was not overly worried.

Thanks,I read some kind of blog earlier by someone who used to work in the nags head and she said that SC would always text or ring CL when she had been stood up but would never pop 4 doors down and knock on her. I was just checking if she had done the same that night. The blogger also suggests that she never witnessed any of the behaviour that some people have reported re Claudia and other patrons of the nags head.
Obviously all speculation and as I said I am just trying to get a feel for the case at the moment,thanks for humouring me

 

[Eve71]

Honestly don't know. The police think she left for work that morning. Then there's the sighting of a rucksack similar to hers on grass on her route to work that has never been discounted. Is it possible it was Haliwell? I don't think this can be discounted. Dark man the night before might be completely innocent. He might have died given the length of time it took them to release the CCTV.

Yes the police are going down a particular route but they do get it wrong sometimes. Probably more frequently than we know.

I’m drawn to Halliwell. I do think some of her so called friends have been quite shady. Where did the rumours of Claudias affairs start from....? I actually get the impression C was not particularly liked at the NH, more tolerated. Much of the CCTV footage is possibly unconnected and just peeps going about their everyday mundane routines. I’m sure the ‘friends’ unwittingly planted the seed with the police which then grew into something it was not.

I think we can discount the CCTV footage, apart from the focus. The hair dye, missing straighteners , the disappearing bag which was actually very popular back in 2009 and the sightings believed to have been Claudia that morning.

 

[Mrs Marple]

It does seem that the police ceased on this 'complicated private life that she kept secret from family and friends.' Who are the friends they refer to, if not the NH crowd? Has it led them down the wrong path?

Who ever was in CLs car smoking was not one of the six already arrested. Smokerman is not discounted, although it may be innocent.

 

[Eve71]

It does seem that the police ceased on this 'complicated private life that she kept secret from family and friends.' Who are the friends they refer to, if not the NH crowd? Has it led them down the wrong path?

Who ever was in CLs car smoking was not one of the six already arrested. Smokerman is not discounted, although it may be innocent.

I think the friends are outside the NH. Maybe workmates, friends from Malton? I’m sure the NH crowd planted the seed about her complicated love life. Police probably got lots of info from her phone records too. There have been rumours that she worked as an escort or a phone line girl. Questions have also been asked about her income and expenditure. Maybe the seed of a loose woman, possibly moonlighting as an escort set the stage for the police to rule out stranger abduction?

 

[Mrs Marple]

I think the friends are outside the NH. Maybe workmates, friends from Malton? I’m sure the NH crowd planted the seed about her complicated love life. Police probably got lots of info from her phone records too. There have been rumours that she worked as an escort or a phone line girl. Questions have also been asked about her income and expenditure. Maybe the seed of a loose woman, possibly moonlighting as an escort set the stage for the police to rule out stranger abduction?

I read on MSM today about the escort rumours. Very hurtful for Claudia's family. It seems some couldn't wait to dish the dirt on her.

 

[Eve71]

I read on MSM today about the escort rumours. Very hurtful for Claudia's family. It seems some couldn't wait to dish the dirt on her.

I know, not nice. I don’t believe she was because I’m sure the police would have most certainly released that information. It would be to crucial not to and they’ve never held back that info with other prostitute victims.

 

[Popejohn3]

Is it possible that the breaking car simply hit her as she crossed the road? Were there eye witnesses to the car or was it just heard breaking?
Apologies as I am not hugely familiar with the thread yet,it has just piqued my interest of late,so I am just trawling through google,reddit etc!

Depends ...other cars would have stopped too . I would think

 

[MajorLang]

I suppose police have to keep options open and any sightings are not closed down in case of someone coming forward.
It's a shame police can't say more due to preservation of future prosecution evidence.

The SIO was clearly frustrated when CPS would not allow case to proceed to prosecution.

Unfortunately today, any case with less than a 90% chance of success can be rejected by CPS due to government targets.

had this case proceeded we would have heard all evidence they had.

DCI Malyn seems convinced after an independent review of the case that he has the culprits, why do we not agree.
Why would Police close down a theory if they could gain a prosecution?

It is very clear from what he has said that whilst suspects stick to their story or remain silent that the only way this case will proceed to prosecution is if the solidarity shown by the 4 breaks, perhaps a relationship or if additional evidence comes forward.
If you remember Halliwell maintained no comment but the evidence outweighed his silence and a guilty verdict was obtained.

 

[Popejohn3]

@Kiranerys

Is it possible that the breaking car simply hit her as she crossed the road? Were there eye witnesses to the car or was it just heard breaking?

It's possible but why walk into the road when her usual route, confirmed via cctv was to stay on her side of Heworth road? Was she in the car, stopped abruptly to dive in and grab something before being driven on to work?

And is this the reason the driver never came forward ?

 

[Yozzer]

If we all had to choose one theory as to what happened to Claudia, what would yours be? I’d have to go with stranger abduction on her way to work and her body buried somewhere. All things considered it seems the only possible explanation, imo.

@Eve71
Do you think she walked to work or got a lift?

 

[Yozzer]

I’m drawn to Halliwell. I do think some of her so called friends have been quite shady. Where did the rumours of Claudias affairs start from....? I actually get the impression C was not particularly liked at the NH, more tolerated. Much of the CCTV footage is possibly unconnected and just peeps going about their everyday mundane routines. I’m sure the ‘friends’ unwittingly planted the seed with the police which then grew into something it was not.

I think we can discount the CCTV footage, apart from the focus. The hair dye, missing straighteners , the disappearing bag which was actually very popular back in 2009 and the sightings believed to have been Claudia that morning.

I agree with your view of the fickle nature of some of her so-called associates in the NH. I really can't eliminate the alley man though. His little jaunts down to the back of Heworth Place, the brief nature of them, the timing of both sightings, the shifty behaviour just all seems too coincidental. He may well have done this regularly if indeed he was her boyfriend AND a NH regular who was part of the drinking circle AND a married 'family' man who didn't want to risk being sighted entering no 46 by the front entrance. Regarding her bag, I suppose the only niggle is whether alley man was carrying it over his shoulder in that cctv?

 

[Yozzer]

I know, not nice. I don’t believe she was because I’m sure the police would have most certainly released that information. It would be to crucial not to and they’ve never held back that info with other prostitute victims.

DI Galloway did discuss the escort rumour but dismissed it saying CL's profile didn't fit that kind of lifestyle. She had a full time job, sometimes worked unsocial hours and I believe he said they didn't think she was confident or perhaps ruthless enough apparently.

 

[Popejohn3]

I agree with your view of the fickle nature of some of her so-called associates in the NH. I really can't eliminate the alley man though. His little jaunts down to the back of Heworth Place, the brief nature of them, the timing of both sightings, the shifty behaviour just all seems too coincidental. He may well have done this regularly if indeed he was her boyfriend AND a NH regular who was part of the drinking circle AND a married 'family' man who didn't want to risk being sighted entering no 46 by the front entrance. Regarding her bag, I suppose the only niggle is whether alley man was carrying it over his shoulder in that cctv?[/
Claudia Lawrence inquiry: Man near alley 'still key'

 

[Popejohn3]

Ally man still key:This from the bbc March 2019 and quoting the police too
I would say that this is probably her mystery boyfriend.

 

[Mrs Marple]

The sticking point with stranger abduction and the reason the police think it has a local connection is the mobile phone signal.

It's possible that the phone fell out into a car if it was a stranger but the car didn't go far.

Or is the bag sighting credible. If the phone was in Claudia's bag and someone local picked the bag up after seeing it. It seems really odd to me that the phone was switched off two hours after her manager called and left a message. If you were a nefarious person in that position would you switch it off sooner? The only thing that stands out for me is that an older person might not know or understand about phone pings.

Another thing l theorise is was she blackmailing anyone. I read in this thread speculation about her father buying her the house but l read on MSM yesterday that the bank has suspended the mortgage indefinitely. So there was a mortgage apparently and in her role as a chef l suspect this was canteen not gourmet so she wasn't exactly high earning. And yet she went off on holidays, at one point she had a horse, she ran a car, she presumably spent a lot of money on cabs from nights out and buying alcohol. Granted no doubt some of this was paid for by others. But l can't help but wonder, as that certainly is a motive for murder.

 

[Yozzer]

Ally man still key:This from the bbc March 2019 and quoting the police too
I would say that this is probably her mystery boyfriend.

And police know who he is and wanted to charge him but there wasn't enough corroborating evidence e.g. social media, cctv, phone, witness statements - and the biggest problem: no body.

His DNA may well be in her house but if he has owned up to having an affair with her, this would not be definitive proof either.

It's very unfortunate that the properties in Lime Court are student accommodation and the ones in HP are rentals too so the population in those properties was mostly transient.

I share Malyn's frustration.