OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[Cool Cats]

CC, good post! Following is a perfect example of ORC 2923.32 (A)(1):

UPDATE: Man, Girlfriend Sentenced in Oxycodone Trafficking Ring

Stuckey's charges are on Scioto County Common Pleas website.

And it should be noted the previous happened in South Webster and AW's uncle is among the list.

The 4 Wagners' charges also contain, in addition to the same charge above, a slash ( / ) 2923.32(B)(1) to the "Engaging....." which is due to all the felony charges on them.

Last but not least, AW's father/RN's ex, is indeed the one-and-the-same ALL listed, including the Edward C. with the FORGERY charges and the Edward with the controlled substances charges listed on the Scioto County of Common Pleas website. Marshall and Merean were judges, both of whom are crooks and have been brought down.

One last thing...AW's Dad is the John Doe in the indictments. JMO

Last, but not least, it is common practice for the Prosecutor to present the bare minimum evidence to get an indictment, and then not to show their hand in the charges filed. Smart. JMO

ALL MY OPINION ONLY.

Good post to you also Loom!....

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Your right, thanks. I also take your point to mean
the whole forgery case hinges on HR's signature, that's why they got hand writing samples (I don't remember which discovery mentions it).

Rita will have to say HR signed the documents in front of her. It seems to boil down to whether or not HR's signature is proved to be real or not. The prosecution will get an expert to testify that it's a forged signature, the defense will have an expert say it is her handwriting.

The prosecution can back up their expert's testimony with witness testimony. Witnesses who will say that HR would never sign custody papers for the Wagners, and then give reasons why. I would be surprised if the defense could dig up those types of witnesses who would say the opposite.....2 Cents.....

Rita's July 25th Supplemental Discovery lists 3 additional witnesses:

Special Agent J. Jenkins from BCI SIU Major Crimes
Major A. Lewis from Ross County Sheriff's Office
J. Berry from BCI, CIU analyst

Special Investigations Unit (SIU)
How We Investigate Fraud and Compliance
Ohio Auditor of State Keith Faber

The Criminal Intelligence Unit (CIU) collects, processes, analyzes, and disseminates criminal intelligence to law enforcement agencies throughout Ohio. The unit focuses on organized crime, major crimes, criminal gangs, fugitive apprehension, and organized drug trafficking operations.
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Law-Enforcement/Bureau-of-Criminal-Investigation/Investigation-Division.aspx

Cool cats, this is excellent information! It was so informative for me. Thank you for sharing it.

If I read that correctly, and I might not have, but it sounds like the state has 3 witnesses concerning forgery?

One more thing that I thought about concerning notaries...in Ohio, every notary is to keep a journal. Most journals include the following column headings or something worded very closely: Date, Document to be notarized, name, ID type/description, ID number, expiration date, ID #2 type/description, ID 2 number, expiration date, signature of the person signing in front of the notary. I may have omitted a couple things. Been burning the candle at both ends.

Anyway, one of the IDs must be a picture ID to prove to the notary that the person is who they say they are. (Even if you know the person.) So, they'd had to have forged her signature twice! I'd love to know what her journal entry looks like for that day. Seriously doubt she got all necessary info., let alone that she or someone was able to further the signature halfway decently, twice!

Also, a strong case could be made that she abused her notary license by notarizing a document in which she had a vested interest. HUGE no no!!!

Thanks again for sharing the witnesses and the type of work each does. I'm off to read more on the case. Happy sleuthing!

 

[Cool Cats]

Cool cats, this is excellent information! It was so informative for me. Thank you for sharing it.

If I read that correctly, and I might not have, but it sounds like the state has 3 witnesses concerning forgery?

One more thing that I thought about concerning notaries...in Ohio, every notary is to keep a journal. Most journals include the following column headings or something worded very closely: Date, Document to be notarized, name, ID type/description, ID number, expiration date, ID #2 type/description, ID 2 number, expiration date, signature of the person signing in front of the notary. I may have omitted a couple things. Been burning the candle at both ends.

Anyway, one of the IDs must be a picture ID to prove to the notary that the person is who they say they are. (Even if you know the person.) So, they'd had to have forged her signature twice! I'd love to know what her journal entry looks like for that day. Seriously doubt she got all necessary info., let alone that she or someone was able to further the signature halfway decently, twice!

Also, a strong case could be made that she abused her notary license by notarizing a document in which she had a vested interest. HUGE no no!!!

Thanks again for sharing the witnesses and the type of work each does. I'm off to read more on the case. Happy sleuthing!

Your welcome Buckeyes! The witnesses in this Case matter! We shall see, eventually! Time will tell....

 

[OhioBlues]

Cool cats, this is excellent information! It was so informative for me. Thank you for sharing it.

If I read that correctly, and I might not have, but it sounds like the state has 3 witnesses concerning forgery?

One more thing that I thought about concerning notaries...in Ohio, every notary is to keep a journal. Most journals include the following column headings or something worded very closely: Date, Document to be notarized, name, ID type/description, ID number, expiration date, ID #2 type/description, ID 2 number, expiration date, signature of the person signing in front of the notary. I may have omitted a couple things. Been burning the candle at both ends.

Anyway, one of the IDs must be a picture ID to prove to the notary that the person is who they say they are. (Even if you know the person.) So, they'd had to have forged her signature twice! I'd love to know what her journal entry looks like for that day. Seriously doubt she got all necessary info., let alone that she or someone was able to further the signature halfway decently, twice!

Also, a strong case could be made that she abused her notary license by notarizing a document in which she had a vested interest. HUGE no no!!!

Thanks again for sharing the witnesses and the type of work each does. I'm off to read more on the case. Happy sleuthing!

The Discovery is in the Timelines Thread which you can find here:

Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

 

[Daytocincy]

Wow! You are right! So simple. So chilling. Right in front of me.

Rita: I can't forge Hanna's signature, Hanna will dispute it.

Angela: Don't worry about it, she won't.

Rita: What if she does? How do you know?

Angela:Please just sign it, trust me it will be taken care of, you won't get into trouble.

Rita would have had to, at the very least, been suspicious about what they were planning. Then after the murders she would have known. Even if Angie denied it Rita would know the whole thing was no coincidence.

For the first time I'm coming to terms with the possibility that Rita knew something would happen but didn't try to stop it. That she turned a "blind eye" and played the "I don't want to know anything" card...2 Cents....

I mean if she really did falsely notarized Hanna's signature. If she's found guilty...

I think I disagree. I think it could be as simple as AW telling her it was Hanna’s signature and making up a story for why Hanna couldn’t sign it in front of her. For example, she was on bed rest late in the pregnancy. I don’t know that I buy Rita knew about the murders beforehand. (She doesn’t seem to be the brightest, and I sure wouldn’t risk more loose lips if I were planning a murder.)
As far as her case, I think there is an offer of a plea if she talks to the state. However, she may not have any information beyond notarizing a signature she should not have. As far as her attorney taking it to trial, he may not really be planning to. It could just be posturing. If he did take it to trial, she may not face that much of a punishment if all she did was notarize something she shouldn’t have and then lie. AJMO

 

[Daytocincy]

I think getting a conviction against RN helps their case re child custody motive, but it's probably not critical to it. There are other witnesses, including Leonard Manley, who knew of the fight JW had with Hanna a few weeks prior to the murders, when he demanded she sign the documents to give him custody.

I also think there were other motives for the murders related to the business relationship between CR1 and Billy Wagner. Just speculating, but given Billy's criminal past, he may have stolen something from CR1 or tried to pass off stolen goods. Because of the threats to Hanna by JW, CR1 may have threatened to go to police with info about Billy's criminal activity.

The indictments say that the Wagner's active plot to kill the Rhoden family began sometime in the first weeks of 2016. Whatever it was, something occurred at the end of 2015 or very beginning of 2016.

Link to timeline

OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#48

Also a reminder that Leonard Manley's account of the intimidation of Hannah includes the fact that both JW and his dad, Billy Wagner, were present for the intimidation attack on Hanna.

Can you give us a link about this alleged intimidation attack, or tell us more about it? I am unfamiliar with this information.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think I disagree. I think it could be as simple as AW telling her it was Hanna’s signature and making up a story for why Hanna couldn’t sign it in front of her. For example, she was on bed rest late in the pregnancy. I don’t know that I buy Rita knew about the murders beforehand. (She doesn’t seem to be the brightest, and I sure wouldn’t risk more loose lips if I were planning a murder.)
As far as her case, I think there is an offer of a plea if she talks to the state. However, she may not have any information beyond notarizing a signature she should not have. As far as her attorney taking it to trial, he may not really be planning to. It could just be posturing. If he did take it to trial, she may not face that much of a punishment if all she did was notarize something she shouldn’t have and then lie. AJMO

No. The whole point of a notary is they witness people signing in front of them. If Hanna was on bed rest, the notary would go to her. If Rita notarized Hanna's fake signature, it's fraud. If it's fraud, throw the darn book at her. Enough is enough.

 

[Satchie]

I think I disagree. I think it could be as simple as AW telling her it was Hanna’s signature and making up a story for why Hanna couldn’t sign it in front of her. For example, she was on bed rest late in the pregnancy. I don’t know that I buy Rita knew about the murders beforehand. (She doesn’t seem to be the brightest, and I sure wouldn’t risk more loose lips if I were planning a murder.)
As far as her case, I think there is an offer of a plea if she talks to the state. However, she may not have any information beyond notarizing a signature she should not have. As far as her attorney taking it to trial, he may not really be planning to. It could just be posturing. If he did take it to trial, she may not face that much of a punishment if all she did was notarize something she shouldn’t have and then lie. AJMO

I think it depends a lot on Rita's personality and her relationship with AW. Seems possible she's quite weak, and AW knows how to boss her around and manipulate her. I agree, when you're planning a massacre, you don't want your spineless mother as an equal partner in the plot. But you might feel confident about what you can get her to do for you, and that she'll never go to police behind your back.

 

[Daytocincy]

No. The whole point of a notary is they witness people signing in front of them. If Hanna was on bed rest, the notary would go to her. If Rita notarized Hanna's fake signature, it's likely fraud. If it's fraud, throw the darn book at her.

I know what the point of the notary is, I am just giving a scenario. Comparatively, a notary could commit knowing fraud, I.e. notarizing something they knew to be false, as opposed to notarizing a signature that they believe is a valid signature. I am not saying what you or I may think she deserves in terms of punishment, but what a judge would actually sentence her to. jMO

 

[Satchie]

No. The whole point of a notary is they witness people signing in front of them. If Hanna was on bed rest, the notary would go to her. If Rita notarized Hanna's fake signature, it's fraud. If it's fraud, throw the darn book at her. Enough is enough.

For sure, she should be prosecuted, and used for whatever purpose prosecution can wrangle. But there's also a discussion about what actually happened in terms of who held the real power, who knew what, that is outside the narrow legal perspective.

 

[Daytocincy]

I think it depends a lot on Rita's personality and her relationship with AW. Seems possible she's quite weak, and AW knows how to boss her around and manipulate her. I agree, when you're planning a massacre, you don't want your spineless mother as an equal partner in the plot. But you might feel confident about what you can get her to do for you, and that she'll never go to police behind your back.

I think we also need to consider that Rita takes care of her own ailing Mother, and that might factor in. Or if Rita’s along with Angela’s cooperation could get the DP removed from AW and Rita probation. That might be a bundle offer, ala American Pickers. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Can you give us a link about this alleged intimidation attack, or tell us more about it? I am unfamiliar with this information.

Here's a link to some news reports

Jake Wagner set to appear in court for Rhoden family massacre

The custody of a daughter Jake Wagner shared with Hanna Rhoden is part of the motive for the murders, according to the Ohio Attorney General’s Office. Rhoden’s grandfather, Leonard Manley, told Local 12 News in May 2017 that a dispute over child custody was believed to be behind the murders. Manley said the Wagners tried to get Rhoden to sign over custody of the then 2-year-old girl a couple of weeks before the murders.

Ohio family murder suspect filed for custody of daughter days after slayings, report says

 

[Daytocincy]

For sure, she should be prosecuted, and used for whatever purpose prosecution can wrangle. But there's also a discussion about what actually happened in terms of who held the real power, who knew what, that is outside the narrow legal perspective.

Agreed. I’m trying to look at this logically and there is for sure a power and family dynamic. Also, I heard Jake was telling his friends via jail phone when he was first arrested that he was going to be out on bond quickly. So the Wagner’s may be delusional in addition to being savages. All my opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

Can you give us a link about this alleged intimidation attack, or tell us more about it? I am unfamiliar with this information.

There have been many links to articles posted over this year about relatives being quoted in articles that there was a custody dispute, Jake was abusive, both Jake and Billy tried to strong arm Hanna into giving up custody. I can vouch to what Betty said. Go look through past articles. It's all there. Do the research.
I have myself probably posted a dozen links to these articles.

 

[Satchie]

I think we also need to consider that Rita takes care of her own ailing Mother, and that might factor in. Or if Rita’s along with Angela’s cooperation could get the DP removed from AW and Rita probation. That might be a bundle offer, ala American Pickers. JMO

I agree, it seems the time-tested strategy in all conspiracy cases is to target the less central players, and apply intense pressure to try to get them to cooperate, so prosecutors can build the airtight case against the prime mover(s). Then there's no risk of anyone getting off.

 

[Fletcher73]

One more thing that I thought about concerning notaries...in Ohio, every notary is to keep a journal. Most journals include the following column headings or something worded very closely: Date, Document to be notarized, name, ID type/description, ID number, expiration date, ID #2 type/description, ID 2 number, expiration date, signature of the person signing in front of the notary.

RSBM

GB, thanks for this post. Does that mean an Ohio notary must see two pieces of ID?

I had documents notarized a couple years ago, but I can't recall if I showed more than a driver's license (not in Ohio, tho). TIA

 

[Betty P]

I think it depends a lot on Rita's personality and her relationship with AW. Seems possible she's quite weak, and AW knows how to boss her around and manipulate her. I agree, when you're planning a massacre, you don't want your spineless mother as an equal partner in the plot. But you might feel confident about what you can get her to do for you, and that she'll never go to police behind your back.

No offense, but I'm not sure anymore. I used to think she may have been manipulated into the forgery, but her performance at her recent hearing changed my mind. The way she defiantly barked at the judge and prosecutors made me realize she's no pushover. She's not shy about asserting herself.

Her daughter may be somewhat persuasive, but RN had to have known what she was doing was wrong.

JMO

 

[Satchie]

No offense, but I'm not sure anymore. I used to think she may have been manipulated into the forgery, but her performance at her recent hearing changed my mind. The way she defiantly barked at the judge and prosecutors made me realize she's no pushover. She's not shy about asserting herself.

Possibly, but it's often the smaller dog that barks and growls at the bigger one.

 

[Betty P]

Possibly, but it's often the smaller dog that barks and growls at the bigger one.

Well, we'll find out soon enough. RN's trial is supposed to be scheduled for sometime before early Dec

 

[Satchie]

Here's a link to some news reports

Jake Wagner set to appear in court for Rhoden family massacre



Ohio family murder suspect filed for custody of daughter days after slayings, report says

The prosecution announced at the time of the arrests that the motivation was a custody dispute, we all know that.

However, I don't believe we've ever heard details of actual incidents of confrontations: who said what to whom, who was involved. Did Hannah's parents get involved, did she get legal advice. Etc.

So I just wasted several minutes watching the first link and it says absolutely nothing except that Wagner properties were searched, no one knows why (just to try to save anyone else from similarly wasting their time)

The second link has this quote:
"Wagner tried to get Hanna to sign over her custody rights to the girl but her family said she refused, according to WLWT-TV."

So I followed that up, and I think the quote from WLWT-TV is this one:

"Although prosecutors declined to discuss details of the custody battle, the Rhoden family said the Wagners tried to get Hanna Rhoden to sign her rights over to Jake Wagner weeks before the massacre." Rhoden family: Child at center of custody battle is safe

We don't know what that means. Some people may be jumping to the conclusion that the tactics that were allegedly used on GW4's ex were also used on Hannah. But that's an assumption. Perhaps Hannah's parents stood up for her. Perhaps she got legal advice. Perhaps the W's realized intimidation wouldn't work and tried using sugar. We just don't know.

The actual evidence for any claim made on WS is important, and I will continue to search it out and challenge statements that aren't backed up by evidence. Just as I spent far too much time challenging claims about Mexican drug gangs and other theories lacking evidence, before the suspects were charged.