Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[Aydrianna523]

Its still hard for me to understand why the first sketch was wrong, but the second is not. There's something they know obviously.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Wow! Doesn't that really expand the pool of potential DNA contributors. It made me think. I keep a sweatshirt, along with a knit watch cap and gloves on the back seat of my car. I pull the sweatshirt out on occasion when I am out longer than I expected and when I get home it goes back in the car. It probably been 5 years since I washed it. I doubt if Kelsi's were back there that long, but if she wore one or the other on occasion over the winter and tossed them back in the car we've got more possibilities than the day of the murders.

Yes, and dna of the first responders checking to see if they're alive. We don't know how much they tried to resuscitate.

 

[tresir2012]

IMO, he flashed a gun or a badge of some sort and that made them compliant to do what he said. JMO

I think he may have flashed something earlier that maybe made them wary when they saw him heading towards them across the bridge. I think that's why Libby did the video. MOO.

 

[Aydrianna523]

I Quite simply believe they have DNA and that it is touch DNA and very difficult to eliminate or include possible DNA. That LE et al is busy including or excluding which is easier said than done from my amateur opinion. A long process. The simple terms can be explained here which I believe is MSM.

JMHO
Mingy

Would they still be testing for touch dna two+ years ltr? Lots of touch DNA but none that really help isn't very encouraging?
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[taximama24]

I Quite simply believe they have DNA and that it is touch DNA and very difficult to eliminate or include possible DNA. That LE et al is busy including or excluding which is easier said than done from my amateur opinion. A long process. The simple terms can be explained here which I believe is MSM.

JMHO
Mingy

Yes, if I guess my thought process is that if they are limited to touch DNA from their clothes than they really don't have a good DNA sample to try for a conviction alone. They were found outside after covering an expanse in a public park, Abby was wearing a jacket that Kelsi had in her car, Kelsi had a job in a place that people are coming in and out of, etc. All of those are holes that can be exploited in trial. DNA from their fingers/fingernails increases the chances of eliminating reasonable doubt and IMO would be something they could move forward with as soon as the match or close match was found, so the fact that they haven't yet in all this time would lead me to believe its more likely from the clothing alone if they have it at all.

 

[tresir2012]

Wow! Doesn't that really expand the pool of potential DNA contributors. It made me think. I keep a sweatshirt, along with a knit watch cap and gloves on the back seat of my car. I pull the sweatshirt out on occasion when I am out longer than I expected and when I get home it goes back in the car. It probably been 5 years since I washed it. I doubt if Kelsi's were back there that long, but if she wore one or the other on occasion over the winter and tossed them back in the car we've got more possibilities than the day of the murders.

5 years without washing it? That's a long time. LOL.

 

[tresir2012]

Would they still be testing for touch dna two+ years ltr? Lots of touch DNA but none that really help isn't very encouraging?
I hope I'm wrong.

It has been reported they have about two dozen POIs. Presumably they have not been eliminated by the DNA or they would no longer be POIs. Why would this be?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

One more thing about the “DNA” in this case. It was “fast tracked”.... Evidence was also sent to the GBI awhile ago. Perhaps that is where the “new” sketch evolved from? We’re already at the 2 & 1/2 year point. Idk what anyone here considers fast, but IMO, they just do not have what is needed to seal the deal. At least not without that “one tip”. MOO

 

[Fizzle]

If law enforcement had identified one person, they'd be looking for that one tip, or one piece of evidence from that suspect, his family, friends, coworkers, associates, acquaintances. They'd be at his school, his job, his last job, the store(s) he frequents, his mechanic, restaurants. They'd be getting warrants for employment records, vehicle data, cell phone data, etc... for that suspect.

They wouldn't be casting a wide net in front of a global audience. As much as people invest in the idea that they have a "primary" suspect, I assure you as of the 4/22/19 press conference, there was no primary suspect.

Think about it, do they need or want to investigate tips from the public at large (think about the sheer volume of garbage they'd have to sort through) when they could simply focus all efforts on one man and every detail of his life generally and more specifically on 2/13/17?

I don't think they were truly asking for the public's help... I think it was all a show for just a handful of people. To apply pressure.

 

[JnRyan]

5 years without washing it? That's a long time. LOL.

Yeah, I probably should over the summer, but I forget it and the gloves and hat are back there. 3 or 4 times a year I'm someplace where I realize I should have brought a jacket. I wear for 15-30 minutes and then throw it in the back when I'm back in the car. It's part of my emergency stuff and I'm afraid if I take it in the house that I won't remember to put it back. Maybe that is my project for next spring.

 

[JnRyan]

It has been reported they have about two dozen POIs. Presumably they have not been eliminated by the DNA or they would no longer be POIs. Why would this be?

There is always the possibility they can't be eliminated if the killer never touched them (used a gun) or used gloves, in which case any unidentified DNA would not belong to him. That is the problem with touch DNA. NOW if one of the girls scratched him and they got DNA in that manner, they've got his DNA. But LE is probably always asking for DNA because you never know when you can get a match and they can't ignore that possibility.

LE has always seemed to be coy about this. Saying, "We have DNA", but not "We have the killer's DNA. OR, like 1st Sgt Holeman, where he answers the question by saying almost every crime scene has DNA, but not "We have the killer's DNA." There is always the possibility that LE is not revealing they have the killer's DNA because it might reveal something LE doesn't want known. But I doubt that aspect.

 

[raja]

Also keeping in mind their young age - I personally have had an acquaintance who was kidnapped, raped and murdered at gunpoint by a stranger - I’ve learned that it is better to scream and run risking getting shot rather than comply. I got held up in a mall parking lot and did just that - ran. We may never know but I just wonder what he was doing that was making them so uncomfortable that made Liberty start taking pics.

So sorry about your acquaintance. Good for you to run. Throw your purse or keys one direction and take off in the opposite direction. My fear is I would freeze. The 2 girls may have had two different responses. One ran and one froze. The one who ran realized she could not leave the other with the monster. Very brave girl if it went down like that.

 

[NameUser]

The UCR from 2018 showed an approximately 62% clearance rate for murder and non-negligent homicide.

Clearances

Where do you get your 92% clearance rate?

Also interested in the 92%

Perhaps this is just for Delphi?

 

[Elsa Johanssen]

IMO, he flashed a gun or a badge of some sort and that made them compliant to do what he said. JMO

I believe it was a Gun and a knife.

 

[Elsa Johanssen]

I don't think they were truly asking for the public's help... I think it was all a show for just a handful of people. To apply pressure.

My thoughts as well. But there was a subtext between the police and a few audience members and u can read it if u look closely. I also, as i mentioned earlier, believe LE is being threatened which explains their demeanor to some extent.

 

[Fizzle]

Law enforcement dedicated resources to publically solicited tips when they announced a new sketch and released more audio, hoping to provoke a new lead from the public. Simply put, this is how they determined their resources would be best utilized - by responding and investigating thousands of vague tips based on a second sketch and some additional audio. This is not an action law enforcement would take if they had literally any other option.

This is interesting. If LE did have a leading POI and they were trying to rattle him with the 4/19 PC, then would they have allocated many resources toward the tip line? They've asked many times for tips to be submitted via e-mail. I'd hope they have some sort of algorithm to search for any tips that could actually be helpful. If the PC was for show, then they wouldn't be prioritizing going through the tips from the public at all -- they'd be hoping for something to happen with that POI (e.g., his alibi might finally break and tell the truth). I know you don't buy that the April PC was directed at anyone, but I think it's an interesting possibility.

I agree with you that IF that April PC was not targeted at one (or two) POI(s), then it was more of a Hail Mary -- throwing out something (the sketch from week 1) and hoping it might stick. But there are details about the PC that make me believe that it was a targeted personal message.

 

[Cutiekitty]

You can get a persons DNA by one of three ways:

1) Voluntarily;

2) Abandoned property;

3) With a warrant.

If they really wanted it, they'd have it.

So what if:

1) They don’t volunteer it

2) They are cognizant of LE’s ability to obtain DNA from abandoned property so they don’t put themselves in a position where LE can obtain their DNA in this way or they do it in a way that makes it difficult for LE to single them out specifically.

3) There isn’t enough for a warrant

What if they have provided a DNA sample or one has been obtained in some way and it’s a match, but it’s presence can be explained away?

 

[FinePrint]

My hope is somebody already knows BG is in their life, or has a hunch they know the identity, and they call it in and contact LE.

Another 'hunch' I have is he will strike again, he hasn't been caught, which I'd imagine gives him a false sense of security and makes him more *advertiser censored* sure.

JMO

-FD

Agree @Falling Down, I’m certain he will strike again. He may have laid low for a while but everyday he is free the more emboldened I’m sure he becomes. This was not a one and done.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Interesting.

If the girls put on those clothes freshly that morning , then there would be very limited touch DNA on it (other than perhaps the actual 2 searchers who actually found their bodies). Those 2 people would be expected to have DNA on the girl(s). The other expected ones would be family members.

KG said they borrowed her clothes/sweatshirts. Looked like AW was wearing a sweat shirt jacket type thing which I doubt is washed after every wear.

 

[Cryptic]

However, IMO, the girls would have said his name if they knew him.

It might depend on to the degree they knew him.

For example, in a targeted scenario, the victims may have "known" him as the on again, off again boyfriend of older friend "F". Or, for an older perpetrator, they could have known him as say, the uncle of casual friend "CF'. Thus, the girls may not have known him to the extent that they knew his name. Rather, they knew him "by face".