CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #57 *ARREST*

[steeltowngirl]

Yes! A figure in a white shirt (or top) was seen by another neighbor's security camera. This "still" from an old fashioned video tape was mentioned in the search warrant affidavits, but was not introduced in the cause hearing on February 19, 2019. IMO

Do you have a link for this? Kelsey was last seen in a white shirt, correct?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Once again: "'entering" is just an opinion that was expressed by Cmdr Adams in the search warrant affidavits, which is allowable in that excercise. When introduced in as evidence though, it has to be backed up by supporting evidence, or can be denied by the absence of supporting evidence. The absence of any DNA sample attributed to PF in the condo would tend to "deny" the validity of Adams' assertion. IMO

There was not an absence of PF DNA. Others, unknown, yes. But there was DNA of PF's in the condo.

On 12-12-18, a DNA profile of Patrick Frazee was developed and compared to the sample from the bathroom sink and the results for that item are at least 14 times more likely if they originated from Patrick Frazee and two unknown, unrelated individuals than if they originated from three previously unknown, unrelated individuals."

 

[Seattle1]

Do you have a link for this? Kelsey was last seen in a white shirt, correct?

I just searched the "Missing Posters" for KB, and she was last reported seen near her residence, but no description of what she was last seen wearing. I believe she's wearing a coat in the Safeway video so I too am curious where KB in white shirt is coming from.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I just searched the "Missing Posters" for KB, and she was last reported seen near her residence, but no description of what she was last seen wearing. I believe she's wearing a coat in the Safeway video so I too am curious where KB in white shirt is coming from.

I have seen it several places, here is one. IMO, the Safeway video looks like a white shirt under a coat.
"Berreth was last seen in a white shirt, gray sweater, blue pants, brown purse and white shoes."

Police release video of missing Colorado woman

 

[MsBetsy]

CBS News 48 Hours,
The murder of Kelsey Berreth: What does Krystal Lee know about the Colorado mom's killing?
Text:

"Still, there are unanswered questions. Initial forensic tests at Kelsey's home revealed some of her blood was mixed with unknown female and male DNA.

Aya Gruber: The key is that male DNA did not belong to Patrick Frazee.

Nikki Battiste: Do we know whose female DNA that is yet?

Aya Gruber: We don't yet.

Nikki Battiste: And to this day there is no body and there is no murder weapon. What's that mean for the prosecution?

Aya Gruber: I think it makes it a much more difficult case … The cell phone evidence tells a story. And that's very helpful. But it can't tell a full story. … So, what this case lives and dies on is the testimony of Krystal Lee. … That is the connective thread for everything."
The murder of Kelsey Berreth: What does Krystal Lee know about the Colorado mom's killing?

I wonder if the female DNA might belong to the baby. Imo

 

[SandyQLS]

Thanks for the link above!

Also scroll to page 5, item #28:

I believe I located another gem that for one reason or another, has been omitted from this discussion relative to UNKNOWN DNA located at KB's condo.

In addition to one unknown MALE [DNA] profile -- there was also one unknown FEMALE [DNA] profile developed from various areas of the bathroom. [emphasis added].

View attachment 210532

Um, this was discussed at length a long time ago when the Dec. 2018 arrest warrant was released Feb. 2019. That item on DNA has been superseded.

SW19-10 signed January 15, 2019, item#28:

"Additionally, one unknown male profile and one unknown female profile were also developed from various areas of the bathroom. It is unlikely the male profile is Frazee's based on lab reports."

Whose DNA would regularly be found in the condo? KB and KF because they live there. 1/2 of KF's DNA originated with her father PF, but neither KF nor CB2 nor unknown persons will have PF's yDNA which was not located in the condo anywhere.

If PF's DNA had been located in usual places, it wouldn't mean much since there was some relationship between PF, KB and KF. KK was only there performing her alleged cleanup for 3 hours. If PF were a regular visitor there is no way she could have cleaned him entirely away. All JMO

There is no overcoming the FACTS that unknown male DNA and unknown female DNA were left in various places in the bathroom, and PF's DNA was not present.

Next I am going to hear that after PF murdered KB, and after KK cleaned the condo so very well, THEN this unknown pair went in and spread their DNA all over.... AFTER KK cleaned the condo....

 

[MsBetsy]

Um, this was discussed at length a long time ago when the Dec. 2018 arrest warrant was released Feb. 2019. That item on DNA has been superseded.

SW19-10 signed January 15, 2019, item#28:

"Additionally, one unknown male profile and one unknown female profile were also developed from various areas of the bathroom. It is unlikely the male profile is Frazee's based on lab reports."

Whose DNA would regularly be found in the condo? KB and KF because they live there. 1/2 of KF's DNA originated with her father PF, but neither KF nor CB2 nor unknown persons will have PF's yDNA which was not located in the condo anywhere.

If PF's DNA had been located in usual places, it wouldn't mean much since there was some relationship between PF, KB and KF. KK was only there performing her alleged cleanup for 3 hours. If PF were a regular visitor there is no way she could have cleaned him entirely away. All JMO

There is no overcoming the FACTS that unknown male DNA and unknown female DNA were left in various places in the bathroom, and PF's DNA was not present.

Next I am going to hear that after PF murdered KB, and after KK cleaned the condo so very well, THEN this unknown pair went in and spread their DNA all over.... AFTER KK cleaned the condo....

When did investigators first go into the condo for a welfare check? Didn't they go a couple of times? The second time with the family?
Maybe one of them left DNA behind.
Imo

 

[Dave F.]

Does anyone know if there is a copyright on the phrase "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit"? Just asking.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

Um, this was discussed at length a long time ago when the Dec. 2018 arrest warrant was released Feb. 2019. That item on DNA has been superseded.

SW19-10 signed January 15, 2019, item#28:

"Additionally, one unknown male profile and one unknown female profile were also developed from various areas of the bathroom. It is unlikely the male profile is Frazee's based on lab reports."

Whose DNA would regularly be found in the condo? KB and KF because they live there. 1/2 of KF's DNA originated with her father PF, but neither KF nor CB2 nor unknown persons will have PF's yDNA which was not located in the condo anywhere.

If PF's DNA had been located in usual places, it wouldn't mean much since there was some relationship between PF, KB and KF. KK was only there performing her alleged cleanup for 3 hours. If PF were a regular visitor there is no way she could have cleaned him entirely away. All JMO

There is no overcoming the FACTS that unknown male DNA and unknown female DNA were left in various places in the bathroom, and PF's DNA was not present.

Next I am going to hear that after PF murdered KB, and after KK cleaned the condo so very well, THEN this unknown pair went in and spread their DNA all over.... AFTER KK cleaned the condo....

I don't remember there being a statement that PF's DNA wasn't found anywhere in the condo. If for example LE found a testable hair of PFs on a baby toy, what would that prove? Nothing really. To me DNA is important to show KB is dead. The fact that PF's blood wasn't all over the place is because KB wasn't able to defend herself against his brutal attack. JMO

 

[SandyQLS]

There was not an absence of PF DNA. Others, unknown, yes. But there was DNA of PF's in the condo.

On 12-12-18, a DNA profile of Patrick Frazee was developed and compared to the sample from the bathroom sink and the results for that item are at least 14 times more likely if they originated from Patrick Frazee and two unknown, unrelated individuals than if they originated from three previously unknown, unrelated individuals."

This was just explained at length here:
Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #57 *ARREST*

You are quoting the field test for the arrest warrant. The actual lab report produced later by CBI in Denver excludes PF DNA as noted in the later SW's in 2019 when the prosecutor had received the official report.

 

[steeltowngirl]

This was just explained at length here:
Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #57 *ARREST*

You are quoting the field test for the arrest warrant. The actual lab report produced later by CBI in Denver excludes PF DNA as noted in the later SW's in 2019 when the prosecutor had received the official report.

Thank you. Do you have a link to the search warrant citing the lab report?
My understanding is there are 3 profiles: PF, unknown woman, unknown man.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Does anyone know if there is a copyright on the phrase "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit"? Just asking.

That's worrisome when you think of OJ, or CAnthony (who even had famous Dr G testify) and look at the shocking outcomes....

 

[steeltowngirl]

Does anyone know if there is a copyright on the phrase "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit"? Just asking.

Quite the infamous trial quote, wasn't it?
I prefer a movie version myself:

A Few Good Men (1992): "You can't handle the truth!"

 

[SandyQLS]

When did investigators first go into the condo for a welfare check? Didn't they go a couple of times? The second time with the family?
Maybe one of them left DNA behind.
Imo

It's a good thought, but modern police have or should have their DNA on file exactly for this reason. The difficulty and cost of simple DNA profiles by buccal swabs is so very low now that anyone can get a 23andMe profile for what, about $99?

Just for info. because I recently reread it, buccal swabs for DNA were taken from CB1 and CB2 on 12-10-18 per SW18-118 page 7.

 

[SandyQLS]

Thank you. Do you have a link to the search warrant citing the lab report?
My understanding is there are 3 profiles: PF, unknown woman, unknown man.

SW19-10 signed January 15, 2019, item#28.

Colorado Judicial Branch

 

[SandyQLS]

I don't remember there being a statement that PF's DNA wasn't found anywhere in the condo. If for example LE found a testable hair of PFs on a baby toy, what would that prove? Nothing really. To me DNA is important to show KB is dead. The fact that PF's blood wasn't all over the place is because KB wasn't able to defend herself against his brutal attack. JMO

ITA with you that they have continued to test evidence and may have found PF DNA or hair or fingerprints somewhere in that condo, and that We the public would not know. The Defense team itself is only just receiving voluminous amounts of discovery. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

There is no overcoming the FACTS that unknown male DNA and unknown female DNA were left in various places in the bathroom, and PF's DNA was not present.

Next I am going to hear that after PF murdered KB, and after KK cleaned the condo so very well, THEN this unknown pair went in and spread their DNA all over.... AFTER KK cleaned the condo....

<SFF>

Are you under the impression that unknown DNA being found at a crime scene is unusual?

This literally happens all the time. It doesn’t cancel out the mountain of evidence against him, and is likely wholly irrelevant.

If that’s the defense’s smoking gun, they better beg for a plea deal.

 

[steeltowngirl]

SW19-10 signed January 15, 2019, item#28.

Colorado Judicial Branch

Thank you. Item #28 confirms what I understood. There is an unknown third profile that is unlikely to be PF's.

 

[GordianKnot]

<SFF>

Are you under the impression that unknown DNA being found at a crime scene is unusual?

This literally happens all the time. It doesn’t cancel out the mountain of evidence against him, and is likely wholly irrelevant.

If that’s the defense’s smoking gun, they better beg for a plea deal.

Yeah, that unknown male DNA could even be CB2's SO's DNA...it may be a secondary transfer type thing.

It might even be secondary transfer from an article either PF or KK used, wore, etc.

I mean, the defense will likely clutch at this proverbial straw in desperation, but it will be absolutely nothing in comparison to the literal straws DA May has from that discolored bale of hay.

JMO.

 

[gitana1]

I don't remember there being a statement that PF's DNA wasn't found anywhere in the condo. If for example LE found a testable hair of PFs on a baby toy, what would that prove? Nothing really. To me DNA is important to show KB is dead. The fact that PF's blood wasn't all over the place is because KB wasn't able to defend herself against his brutal attack. JMO

Yes. I’m not understanding the significance to some of unknown DNA. I don’t care how hard a monster like KK can clean. They can and usually do miss something.

In many crime scenes unknown and unrelated DNA is found. Kelsey was human. She had friends. Relatives. Service people coming to the house. Maybe a dude she was dating. Etc.

And often unknown DNA is ultimately simply matched to people processing the scene.

Unknown DNA is only important if it is thought to belong to the killer. Nothing here suggests it does. Do people now think there was some team that went in and murdered Kelsey?

Red herrings, people.