IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[BetteDavisEyes]

Chloe Wiegand: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

I believe the window in question is the very top ? and it happened at 5pm with the family boarding that day?
snipped BBM
Port Authority spokesman Jose Carmona told CNN that the girl was in the dining hall playing with her grandfather on deck 11 of the ship when the tragedy occurred. Carmona said one window pane to the hall was open and Wiegand’s grandfather sat the girl in the window. He lost his balance which caused Wiegand to fall. Carmona said, “Sadly, she died on impact.”

I went back to the beginning of this thread - I had never read that SA "lost his balance" - causing her to fall. Did I just miss this in other reports? How did the family say she fell ? or did they? I haven't watched the NBC video of them.

Interesting that this report suggests that Chloe and her grandfather were in the dining hall. I thought they were in the children's play area (H2O Zone). The lawyer insists that the windows that open are in the children's play area.

I posted upthread about reports that SA lost his balance. The ship was in port, so there wasn't any movement of the vessel. What made SA lose his balance, if that is what happened? Lawyer claims "alcohol was not involved".

I still want to know where other family members were at the time of the incident.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Chloe Wiegand: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

I believe the window in question is the very top ? and it happened at 5pm with the family boarding that day?
snipped BBM
Port Authority spokesman Jose Carmona told CNN that the girl was in the dining hall playing with her grandfather on deck 11 of the ship when the tragedy occurred. Carmona said one window pane to the hall was open and Wiegand’s grandfather sat the girl in the window. He lost his balance which caused Wiegand to fall. Carmona said, “Sadly, she died on impact.”

I went back to the beginning of this thread - I had never read that SA "lost his balance" - causing her to fall. Did I just miss this in other reports? How did the family say she fell ? or did they? I haven't watched the NBC video of them.

No link, but what I remember was that they said he stood her up on th he rail to bang on the glass *like she did at hockey games*, and nothing was there, so she fell. Of course this was just one of the many, many versions reported. MOO.
Edited to add link:
Tragic new details emerge in case of toddler who died in cruise ship fall

 

[sl222]

At one point the attorney also used the words "he let go of her." There is no clear description of what happened.

 

[sl222]

I was agreeing with @LietKynes - something else is going on here IMO - I have an idea but will await the release of the video as I could be wrong

Are you all referring to the possibility that the GF had had drinks, or to the question of whether the GF himself opened the window?

<modsnip: rumor; no MSM to support>

 

[they'll get you]

“There’s a whole wall of windows [on the ship],” Mr Winkleman told NBC.

“The grandfather thought that this window was closed. It turns out, we’ve come to learn, that ... passengers can open these windows.”

Mr Winkleman said while the other windows were closed, there was one that was open and created a “hidden hole”, which Chloe fell through.

“Unknowingly, the grandfather places Chloe on the wood railing before the wall of windows, believing Chloe will bang on the glass just like she does at her brother’s hockey games, “and the next thing he knows, she’s gone,” he explained.

“Why in the world would you leave a window open in an entire glass wall full of windows in a kid’s area?”
Cruise ship slammed over little girl’s death

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

“There’s a whole wall of windows [on the ship],” Mr Winkleman told NBC.

“The grandfather thought that this window was closed. It turns out, we’ve come to learn, that ... passengers can open these windows.”

Mr Winkleman said while the other windows were closed, there was one that was open and created a “hidden hole”, which Chloe fell through.

“Unknowingly, the grandfather places Chloe on the wood railing before the wall of windows, believing Chloe will bang on the glass just like she does at her brother’s hockey games, “and the next thing he knows, she’s gone,” he explained.

“Why in the world would you leave a window open in an entire glass wall full of windows in a kid’s area?”
Cruise ship slammed over little girl’s death

It amazes me that Winkleman is playing dumb with his comments. He has been involved in numerous cruise line lawsuits and knows full well that practically every cruise ship has similar type windows on the open upper decks. The windows are usually tinted to prevent glare, and it's easy to tell which windows are open and which aren't.

If I were a RCCL shareholder, I would have written to the company to express concern about the cruise line spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to change the windows because one passenger chose to hold his little grandchild up into an open window from which she plunged to her death. The high cost of window replacement would be passed on to the consumer, and RCCL would likely lose guests.

 

[oviedo]

Interesting that this report suggests that Chloe and her grandfather were in the dining hall. I thought they were in the children's play area (H2O Zone). The lawyer insists that the windows that open are in the children's play area.

I posted upthread about reports that SA lost his balance. The ship was in port, so there wasn't any movement of the vessel. What made SA lose his balance, if that is what happened? Lawyer claims "alcohol was not involved".

I still want to know where other family members were at the time of the incident.

Well the children's play area makes it sound so much more dangerous to have these open windows in - IMO. So i can see why they would have that recollection over the dining area - which is the Windjammer. If he lost his grip due to losing his balance, one would have to wonder how? did he slip on water? what was going on during this time? I too wonder where each family member was positioned - I'm going to guess this does not get to trial. JMO

 

[momsof3]

Me too, yet apparently SA thought it was so funny to scare baby Chloe like that. IMO, it should be considered child abuse even if he hadn’t dropped her. I really hope he gets jail time for this.

BBM
This post "clicked" for me. I've been struggling to figure out why you would lift a child like that. This post reminded me of an uncle I had who used to love to "scare" us as children. I didn't understand it as a child, and even less as an adult, but I bet we have all come across one of those grown-ups-who-never-grew-up. I do wonder is that is the case here. Seems similarly childish to the "you-can't-make-me-wear-a seat-belt."

ETA

Actually, maybe it is this. I just can't figure out what is going on here.

Good point. ^^^

There is something else going on with SA that we're not privy to.
A nanny or other outsider would come under intense scrutiny if not outright accusations from the parents.

 

[oviedo]

Devastated grandfather of toddler who died falling from his arms on cruise ship arrives in Chicago | Daily Mail Online

this may have been posted and I just missed it

The window on the far left is the one Chloe fell through on Sunday while being held against the railing by her grandfather. The others appear to have handles which allow them to be slid open This photograph was taken by Chloe's father after the accident

snipped -BBM -(here are some answers)
But an official from the justice department told DailyMail.com that, on the advice of his lawyer, the elderly IT worker from Valparaiso, Indiana, left the ministry later that day without giving an official statement.

Alan Weigand, a 40-year-old police officer with the South Bend Police Department, and his attorney wife Kimberly, 36, were flying back to the US on a different flight.

A hearse and a police escort were due to meet them to escort Chloe's body back to their hometown of Granger, Indiana.

The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything.

DailyMail.com can reveal they were also then given the opportunity to view a 'high quality' video of their daughter's final moments captured from an onboard camera - but were too distraught to watch.

'The family were asked to come to the Justice Department to talk about what happened but they decided not to since their lawyer had told them not to,' said Justice Department spokesman Kelvin Carrasco.

'The investigation is going to keep going. Maybe they will be asked to come again.'

The Weigands have retained criminal attorneys in San Juan who have thus far declined to speak to the media.

ETA: added the caption to the window photo - taken by Chloe's dad - I don't know how you do this after your child has died but he is a police officer...

 

[Safeguard]

How are there any other culpable parties? I still have yet to hear where the parents were during this incident. There is absolutely no indication at this time that her parents or other family members were on that deck with SA and Chloe and saw/knew what he was doing or could have intervened themselves so I'm not sure where the "charge all" is coming from. If you have something saying they were there I'd love to see it.

I never said there were other parties responsible for Chloe's death. That's all on Gandpa imo.

If you read my whole post, which you quoted, what I said was:


"Yet some equally culpable parents are spared, and others with less evidence to show negligence are prosecuted to the fullest. Why is that?"

I was referring to other cases, as it initially looked as if Grandpa might not be charged at all and I felt that would would have been wrong, (as so many other people are charged with much less to show negligence).

 

[they'll get you]

I find it curious that GF went to the only window that was open.
Do you think we will ever see the footage to see who opened the window and did he look out and down before he put Chloe there.


Mr Winkleman said while the other windows were closed, there was one that was open and created a “hidden hole”, which Chloe fell through.
Cruise ship slammed over little girl’s death

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Devastated grandfather of toddler who died falling from his arms on cruise ship arrives in Chicago | Daily Mail Online
...The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything....

<respectfully snipped for focus>

This is the first time that I've seen a report that the parents were on a different part of the ship at the time of the tragic accident. Where were they and what were they doing? The couple's whereabouts is likely known to investigators and will be presented at trial, if it comes to that. If this report is accurate, Chloe's parents put Grandpa in charge of their precious toddler while they were elsewhere on the vessel. Thankfully, there is substantial surveillance video on cruise ships.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Freedom of the Seas Cruise Ship to Undergo Refurbishment With Waterslides, New Eateries and More

Freedom of the Seas Cruise Ship to Undergo Refurbishment With Waterslides, New Eateries and More

August 21, 2019

(10 a.m. EDT) -- Freedom of the Seas will become the latest Royal Caribbean cruise ship to undergo a bow-to-stern refurbishment as part of the line's more than $1-billion Royal Amplified project when it goes into dry dock in spring 2020. When it emerges in March, it will feature two waterslides, a redesigned Caribbean-themed pool deck, new eateries and bars, and transformed kids and teen spaces.

...The kids and teens Adventure Oceans spaces will also be completely redesigned, including the spaces for babies. New areas will include Play Place, for thought-provoking exploration, the Workshop, for art, science and tech activities, and the Arena, for friendly, active challenges. The Hangout will be the spot for gaming and chilling out. Babies and 3- to 5-year-olds will be able to spend time in Adventure Ocean Babies and Adventure Ocean Junior. Teens will also get new spaces including a private outdoor deck just for them...

Nothing at all about changing windows or installing new windows in the kids' spaces onboard Freedom of the Seas.

 

[IceIce9]

<respectfully snipped for focus>

This is the first time that I've seen a report that the parents were on a different part of the ship at the time of the tragic accident. Where were they and what were they doing? The couple's whereabouts is likely known to investigators and will be presented at trial, if it comes to that. If this report is accurate, Chloe's parents put Grandpa in charge of their precious toddler while they were elsewhere on the vessel. Thankfully, there is substantial surveillance video on cruise ships.

The first very early report I saw said that the mother was in a different part of the ship and came running to see Chloe without knowing she was lying on the concrete 150 feet below. She was saying “take me to my baby! I want to see my baby!” snd then screamed when she saw her on the concrete below.

 

[TDoc72]

Devastated grandfather of toddler who died falling from his arms on cruise ship arrives in Chicago | Daily Mail Online

this may have been posted and I just missed it

The window on the far left is the one Chloe fell through on Sunday while being held against the railing by her grandfather. The others appear to have handles which allow them to be slid open This photograph was taken by Chloe's father after the accident

snipped -BBM -(here are some answers)
But an official from the justice department told DailyMail.com that, on the advice of his lawyer, the elderly IT worker from Valparaiso, Indiana, left the ministry later that day without giving an official statement.

Alan Weigand, a 40-year-old police officer with the South Bend Police Department, and his attorney wife Kimberly, 36, were flying back to the US on a different flight.

A hearse and a police escort were due to meet them to escort Chloe's body back to their hometown of Granger, Indiana.

The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything.

DailyMail.com can reveal they were also then given the opportunity to view a 'high quality' video of their daughter's final moments captured from an onboard camera - but were too distraught to watch.

'The family were asked to come to the Justice Department to talk about what happened but they decided not to since their lawyer had told them not to,' said Justice Department spokesman Kelvin Carrasco.

'The investigation is going to keep going. Maybe they will be asked to come again.'
...

If they were truly on another part of the ship and didn’t see anything, then why not talk to the police/ investigators?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The first very early report I saw said that the mother was in a different part of the ship and came running to see Chloe without knowing she was lying on the concrete 150 feet below. She was saying “take me to my baby! I want to see my baby!” snd then screamed when she saw her on the concrete below.

I recall mention of some family members being at the buffet, but that is on the same deck as the H2O Zone where I thought SA was with Chloe. "A different part of the ship" sounds like the parents could have been on another deck.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...Mr Winkleman said while the other windows were closed, there was one that was open and created a “hidden hole”, which Chloe fell through.
Cruise ship slammed over little girl’s death

Mr. Winkleman likes to make word salads. He's admitting that there was one window open, but it was a "hidden hole". Every photo and video of the windows clearly indicates that the windows are tinted and that windows that are open look very different than those that are closed.

 

[Lilibet]

You said it perfectly. Thank you.

Thank you. As did you. Excellent post.

 

[drama_farmer]

I'm wondering if GF was/is a smoker, and he brought the baby with him to the smoking area part of the deck. I can imagine a scenario where he placed her on the railing using both hands, and then removed one hand to light a cigarette/cigar, etc. Or, maybe he dropped something, ducked down to pick it up, holding her steady with one hand, and lost his grip. All speculation, of course. . . until we find out more from the surveillance.

Also, another thought I had in regard to the traffic citations he has received. It might not be as simple as a disregard for laws. GF could be someone with very poor situational awareness. Many people speed or "forget" to fasten their seatbelts, but after being cited for those infractions, there is a tendency to be more aware of the driving environment. In other words, once "caught" a few times, I think most people would be hyper-aware of the presence of LE and/or speed traps. He could be one of those guys who just doesn't pay attention to details. IMO MOO

 

[IceIce9]

I recall mention of some family members being at the buffet, but that is on the same deck as the H2O Zone where I thought SA was with Chloe. "A different part of the ship" sounds like the parents could have been on another deck.

I hadn’t read about family members being at the buffet, only that the mother was in a different part of the ship. It made me wonder if grandpa was supposed to be babysitting Chloe while other family members in a lounge. Often people head to a bar or lounge soon after boarding a cruise ship.