IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[katydid23]

Grandfather Of Toddler Who Died In Fatal Fall From Cruise Ship Charged With Manslaughter | KBUR

Oct 30, 2019

Chloe’s parents, Alan and Kimberly Wiegand, said they didn’t understand why there would be an open window so high up on the ship and that the cruise line created “a tremendous safety hazard that cost our child her life.”

Huh? I guess I'm trying to understand why raise a child so high up? Awful tragedy --everybody lost here.

I see open windows up high, lots of times, for air circulation. Our public library has a row of windows, very very high, that have long poles they use to open and close them.

It is not that unusual.

I think the family is really reaching in trying to blame it on the Cruise Line. But I can't imagine how horribly painful it must be, to lose an adorable toddler in such a sudden, tragic way.

 

[katydid23]

I have a vague memory of being handed a glass of champagne as we entered the ship for our one and only cruise on Celebrity in 2005. Is that customary...anyone? Or am I having a false memory?

I have the same memory. On a 3 day cruise to Virgin Islands. They handed out free champagne as we entered the ship.

 

[IceIce9]

And IMO the South Bend FOP needs to stay out of this - I used to work for the City and they should not be making any kind of statement about what went on

Also, the FOP has taken the side of the cop/cops in some pretty controversial cases. Here in Indianapolis there was an on-duty cop who was drunk and ran over 3 motorcyclists in broad daylight, killing one and critically injuring the other 2. FOP stood behind him, paid his legal bills, etc.
Until the officer crashed again while under the influence. And that is just one example.

 

[katydid23]

Yeah. I really don't know where you're getting that nightmare fantasy. No one is likely to "imagine that". (until now, thanks... NOT!) Baby Girl fell on Dock Side. No passengers witnessed her death.

I thought people said those windows overlooked the pool? Didnt someone say he was watching other grandkids at the pool? Thats what I thought I read upthread.

 

[Kakidoll]

I have a vague memory of being handed a glass of champagne as we entered the ship for our one and only cruise on Celebrity in 2005. Is that customary...anyone? Or am I having a false memory?

higher end ships used to do this, some may still. RC, Norwegian, Carnival, Disney do NOT. They have waiters walking with them where you can buy them.. but not much 'free' anymore. I'll be on Celebrity in Jan and can tell you then

I'm thinking of another version of the 'holding up on railing, then 'not holding'. Back when i was little it was common for grandpa to throw the toddler in the air and catch... or even pretend to let go and quickly grab......play that 'balance' game. Swinging kids around, doing things a LOT more dangerously than goes on now.... for 'fun'. Maybe he was doing that with her... innocently but with tragic results. I can think back to my daughter being a toddler, there were plenty of times she COULD have gotten hurt had i lost my balance and she'd have fallen (NOT from 11 stories) But we were a LOT tougher as kids back in the 70s. No Bike helmets, scraped knees, doing dangerous things, riding in the back of pickup trucks etc. Going with his age (same as mine) he may has just had a 'dumb' idea of balancing her on the rail and doing a 'oops don't fall' game that ended up tragically. Would he then admit he did it to family? I kinda doubt it.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Maybe he really couldn’t prove he wasn’t drinking?

The argument I imagine is “RCC shows x number of drinks purchased by the defendant on the afternoon of...”

Defense attorney: “But do you have any proof he consumed these drinks? He left it on the bar, gave it to a traveling companion, etc”

“We do have video that appears to show the defendant consuming the beverage.”

Defense attorney: “But can you prove he actually swallowed?”
“Do you have any proof he was at all impaired?”

No proof of what he actually consumed or bac because no test.

I had not seen this bit of information before today.
After reading most of Daily Mail comments, apparently there is some question as to what part of the ship grandpa and Chloe were in when she fell. All I read was it was a child’s play area. Maybe not.
Not a child’s play area but an adult lounge with a bar.
I DO NOT KNOW. I AM REPEATING COMMENTS from msm. DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER.

 

[Safeguard]

I thought people said those windows overlooked the pool? Didnt someone say he was watching other grandkids at the pool? Thats what I thought I read upthread.

WHAT? Chloe fell 190 feet to feet to the dock. There was no pool! Just concrete.

 

[katydid23]

WHAT? Chloe fell 190 feet to feet to the dock. There was no pool! Just concrete.

I deleted my post. I shouldn't have taken that I read upthread as correct or factual.

 

[Safeguard]

I deleted my post. I shouldn't have taken that I read upthread as correct or factual.

Ok. Np. Love you. Totaly respect you, as a fellow poster. Terribly emotional case.

 

[justbreathe]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

Below is a statement from Puerto Rico, translated by Luis Rodriguez:

"Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones, the Chief of Prosecutors, Arlene Gardón Rivera, together with the prosecutor's office of the district attorney of San Juan Víctor Carbonell, reported that charges were filed against Salvatore Anello for Negligent Homicide, per Article 96 of the Criminal Code.

In events that occurred on July 7, 2019, on the Freedom of the Seas cruise ship, on the Panamerican Pier II in San Juan, a child aged 1 year and 7 months lost her life when the step grandfather (husband of the maternal grandmother) negligently exposed her through one of the windows on the 11th floor of the ship. The minor fell from a height of 115 feet, which caused death instantly.

Today, Judge Jimmy Sepulveda of the San Juan Hall of Investigations, found cause for arrest against the accused, and imposed a bail of $ 80,000. The preliminary hearing was set for November 20, 2019. The investigation was carried out by agent Carlos Claudio La Santa of the Division of the Criminal Investigation of Homicides of San Juan in coordination with prosecutors Ivette Nieves Cordero and Laura Hernández Gutiérrez."

The South Bend FOP issued a statement on the charges:

“The charges filed in Puerto Rico today are appalling and do nothing but revictimize a family who experienced a horrific loss. Based on the facts, it sounds like the negligence in this tragedy came from the cruise ship, not the family. The South Bend FOP stands in support of Officer Alan Wiegand and his family and urges Puerto Rican authorities to drop these unnecessary charges.”

The South Bend FOP knows nothing and is not a fact-finder. The judge is. I think they should be embarrassed that they basically directed another state to drop charges in a matter that have nothing to do with, and know nothing about, yet they are supposed to be a group of law enforcement officers.

Seems they have forgotten about little Chloe here.

 

[Lilibet]

I thought people said those windows overlooked the pool? Didnt someone say he was watching other grandkids at the pool? Thats what I thought I read upthread.

No the window area was at the same level as the pools on deck 11, but separated by tables and lounge chairs. Only one member has theorized that he was watching other grandkids to explain why he theoretically got tired and theoretically perched her on the railing. There was one other older grandchild who would have been impossible to keep an eye on even if he had been at the pool, which we don’t know. This is all imaginary and simply serves to muddy the factual waters...the few facts we have.

 

[oviedo]

I have a vague memory of being handed a glass of champagne as we entered the ship for our one and only cruise on Celebrity in 2005. Is that customary...anyone? Or am I having a false memory?

Celebrity is upscale and that could be - I’ve always been invited to the Captains party because of my status where we get free champagne - I did take one celebrity cruise in 2014 I think but it was a company thing and all the drinks were included

 

[oviedo]

Really! There was great stuff there.
I just found the video of the deck tour that the WS member had posted.

eta, just noticed there is a link on the prior page for it too. Leaving just in case

Here’s the video for those just joining the thread - shows the deck and layout and clearly the windows are in a separate area from the children’s splash pool

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Well there it is - exposes her - much as we thought - he held her out the window is the way I read it JMO

MOO.
Correct. Through, not propped up, not close to, not sitting on ledge, with feet dangling freely, but through. Unless we all think PR authorities used the wrong word in describing what GP did, it sounds like you stated. He held her out of the window.

Maybe SBFOP need to see the video before issuing statements based on “facts.”

IMO, a picture is worth a thousand words. I guess a video is worth more than a thousand words.

 

[Safeguard]

Back when i was little it was common for grandpa to throw the toddler in the air and catch... or even pretend to let go and quickly grab......play

Yup. Me too. Doesn't make it safe. Wasn't always "fun", and even when it was, it was scary fun that could have ended in a similar nightmare?

 

[oviedo]

MOO.
Correct. Through, not propped up, not close to, not sitting on ledge, with feet dangling freely, but through. Unless we all think PR authorities used the wrong word in describing what GP did, it sounds like you stated. He held her out of the window.

Maybe SBFOP need to see the video before issuing statements based on “facts.”

IMO, a picture is worth a thousand words. I guess a video is worth more than a thousand words.

Yep a silly game gone horribly wrong IMO

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

The preliminary hearing is set for November 20. Chloe's family requested surveillance footage of the incident from the cruise line and still has not received it.

The family attorney says the family intends to file a lawsuit very shortly.

They’ve been intending to file suit very shortly since day one. And they were offered a viewing of the video since early on but declined to view it.

 

[justbreathe]

Yeah. I really don't know where you're getting that nightmare fantasy. No one is likely to "imagine that". (until now, thanks... NOT!) Baby Girl fell on Dock Side. No passengers witnessed her death.

I mean, we could all come up with horrific visuals but aren't the facts, as we know them horrible enough for you? (They are for me).

We don’t know what other passengers on lowers levels of the ship, or on the dock, saw.

 

[Safeguard]

Causing G'father to Drop Chloe? A Bump?

What if G’father said: ~ Holding Chloe in my arms, I was standing at the rail watching the dock, when A, B, C, or D hit me so hard, I lost my grip on her and she fell out of my arms, and I collapsed on the floor. Then I realized she had fallen, out thru the window.

A. A couple cruiseline employees rearranging furniture pushed a big lounge chair into me.
B. A 10 yr old kid chasing a frisbee bumped into me.
C. A two yr old wobble-walking grabbed my calf/leg for support.
D. Something else like ^ caused me to drop Chloe.


Q1. Could an action like any of ^ have happened, causing/contributing to G’father’s dropping Chloe.
A1: Yes, imo it’s possible.


Q2. Would being bumped like that (help) absolve G’father of responsibility?
A2: Depends, imo, on more detail (how far from window, how fast & hard the bump came, etc.) emerging. thru cruiseline’s vid presumably available later.


Q3. Think this hypo bump did in fact happen, causing G’father to drop her?
A3: No.

Q4. Why not?
A4: If something like this had happened, it would have been observed by passengers & others on that deck. And then pix, vids, articles, blog & vlog entries, interviews, podcasts, and vids would have surfaced all over soc media & MSM, back then, w no time lag til now or trial.


Q5: Any other reasons?
A5: Yes, two. First if the Bump-or had been a passenger, the word would have been circulating waaaay before now. Second if Bump-or(s) had been cruiseline employee(s), lawsuit would have been filed faster than no time flat.
Jmo.
[end of my interview w self, cut to commercial. j/k]

I realize it's Saturday night, but your posts ars usually so... logical? I dont follow...

 

[Lilibet]

Just to review, here is a quote from an early article July 9. After quoting the banging on glass story from the attorney it says:

“Police earlier said the grandfather, Salvatore Anello of Valparaiso, told officers he lost his grip while holding the girl outside a window on the 11th floor of the Freedom of the Seas, according to the Associated Press.”

He must have said that before Winkleman was hired.

Grandfather of toddler in cruise ship death thought window was closed, lawyer says