Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[Tobiano8th]

hard to say on what's going on right now with children and their lawyer and/or estate's lawyer. JS seemed to fire JK from Apotex but it's unclear what role other family members played. just guessing but doubt he could do that completely on his own. but few people seem to know about this.

i'll note that i just try to answer the questions asked and not expand further. keeps me/us out of trouble

anyone have speculation as to why JS got rid of JK at Apotex? i would have thought if they are trying to sell the company, that is not a good development. D left at some recent point (sorry, i don't know his first name). with BS gone, that's the top 3 people (i think) gone in short order

 

[nuff]

Do you think there is a ringleader amongst the children in terms of taking control regarding the company, Estate and investigation into their parents deaths? Is it Jonathan and the others follow his orders like sheep?

As I said in my earlier comments on the book, the "children" do not come across as a united group, by any means, and at least one of the daughters appears to be a strong person very much with a mind of her own. (I may not be doing justice to the others, but she impressed me.) IMO, it may be more of a case of their stepping back and letting JS (and the trustees for the business) hire the Greenspan team as a way to move the case forward. I'm sure they were all together is being appalled at the initial M/S rumours, and in wanting the murders solved, but the book doesn't provide a sense that they spent much time in each other's company.

 

[ldlager]

hard to say on what's going on right now with children and their lawyer and/or estate's lawyer. JS seemed to fire JK from Apotex but it's unclear what role other family members played. just guessing but doubt he could do that completely on his own. but few people seem to know about this.

i'll note that i just try to answer the questions asked and not expand further. keeps me/us out of trouble

anyone have speculation as to why JS got rid of JK at Apotex? i would have thought if they are trying to sell the company, that is not a good development. D left at some recent point (sorry, i don't know his first name). with BS gone, that's the top 3 people (i think) gone in short order

Js is in “control” of apotex, in conjunction with the other trustees, one of which is his brother in law. Jeff Watson, a long time executive with apotex is running the company day to day. Jk is a trustee, but is not involved since he was dismissed.
There are different rumours as to why jk was terminated. One is that he was unwilling to make radical changes to apotex, and wanted to preserve operations and jobs in Canada, consistent with what he and Barry had always planned and discussed. But clearly the family wants to position the company for sale, and so the trustees are supervising and driving the changes required to get the company to that point.

Apparently there is also some belief that js and potentially other family members believe that jk was somehow involved in the murders, or perhaps more accurately knows something about the murder/murderers that he has not disclosed.
Either way, he was shown the door, and is currently in mediation to secure a settlement with the company.

 

[deugirtni]

Js is in “control” of apotex, in conjunction with the other trustees, one of which is his brother in law. Jeff Watson, a long time executive with apotex is running the company day to day. Jk is a trustee, but is not involved since he was dismissed.
There are different rumours as to why jk was terminated. One is that he was unwilling to make radical changes to apotex, and wanted to preserve operations and jobs in Canada, consistent with what he and Barry had always planned and discussed. But clearly the family wants to position the company for sale, and so the trustees are supervising and driving the changes required to get the company to that point.

Apparently there is also some belief that js and potentially other family members believe that jk was somehow involved in the murders, or perhaps more accurately knows something about the murder/murderers that he has not disclosed.
Either way, he was shown the door, and is currently in mediation to secure a settlement with the company.

Hoping the cops have fully interviewed JK. He may, perhaps more than anyone, possibly know more about BS's thoughts on his offspring.

 

[deugirtni]

anyone know what page that "mother/son hated each other" is? book is not indexed yet. i think it's at very start of a chapter. i'll try to find it.

i would have liked a bit more color of children's upbringing and what they've done until recently. just for better feel for things.

if people are curious, at time of deaths, two daughters were around toronto, son had got back from japan recently, last daughter (oldest?) was in mexico, i think she lives in whistler.

lastly, it was confusing but AP is JS business partner, but not his husband. his husband i think is FM. his first name starts with F if his last name doesn't start with M.

BS just seemed like an extraordinary ATM for people, like a hacked slot machine. JS former boyfriend got so much $$$$$ to buy a house (i think there was interest and/or it needed be paid back). but still got the appreciation on a $10MM house (or something like that). hope i got this approx. correct.

Thanks Tobiano8th, is there any further information about JS's trip to Japan from which he had returned shortly before the murders? ie was it business related, how long was the trip, who he went with, etc?
I wonder if TPS would have cause to obtain search warrants for banking activity on the offspring from times preceding and following the murders?

 

[Tobiano8th]

no info on JS japan trip that i've seen. even the japan trip i had to websleuth from the book and newspapers. in the book, it said one child had just returned from japan so i had to do some news article searches to find out which child. i will double-check now that book is indexed.

my sense (and it was vague) was that JS hadn't got back from japan the day before or anything. i got the idea it was at least few days before but there was little tangible info so that could just be a feeling on my behalf.

the whole S family/lawyer filtering info about crime AFTER the M/M verdict was made seems bizarre to me.

basically, for those that don't know. i think they told donovan that his prime sources might be suspects. of course, that should apply to S's collecting evidence for police.

 

[Tobiano8th]

just for completeness sake, direct quote of a partial sentence

"...... JS had been in Japan with his husband F the previous week"........ my own note here: and previous week is relative to the day the shermans were discovered.

and that's it, other than first chapter said one child had just got back from japan.

book also gives some mention where people were the day of discovery, but i don't consider that highly relevent.

 

[deugirtni]

....
"...... JS had been in Japan with his husband F the previous week"........ my own note here: and previous week is relative to the day the shermans were discovered.
....

RSBM
Somehow I find that very interesting.

 

[bmacmillan1]

From an obviously very unstable loony KW to JK, Bary's partner and friend (high unlikely suspect) and all the family members inbetween, the list of potential suspects seems endless. The book doesn’t really shed any new info.

Frustrating that the unknown visitor or the car, the day after the murders, can not be identified from the grainy pictures – 3 times he entered the house, what on earth was he doing there…

I truly hope these murders will be solved.

 

[kiwi50]

Is Jeremy De Sai mentioned much in the book, wonder if It was JK or JS who fired him.

 

[Mikos34]

It's funny to me how the new book provides hardly any new information but people still think a murderer is going to be caught.

A police investigation, private investigation, and investigation by a reporter have all not placed anyone in the house or even outside of the house that night besides the two of them.

If there were four people in the house at least there could be a discussion on who did it. But with no one being placed in the house besides two people how could it be someone else?

 

[WINDSOR]

It's funny to me how the new book provides hardly any new information but people still think a murderer is going to be caught.

A police investigation, private investigation, and investigation by a reporter have all not placed anyone in the house or even outside of the house that night besides the two of them.

If there were four people in the house at least there could be a discussion on who did it. But with no one being placed in the house besides two people how could it be someone else?

How do you know there was no one in the house with the victims? Has the TPS or MSM stated there was no one in the house with the victims?

 

[WINDSOR]

Since it appears that JS was married to another male, how did Honey and Barry feel about this relationship? How does the Jewish faith views these relationships? Was this a cause of friction between the parents and their son?

 

[ldlager]

From an obviously very unstable loony KW to JK, Bary's partner and friend (high unlikely suspect) and all the family members inbetween, the list of potential suspects seems endless. The book doesn’t really shed any new info.

Frustrating that the unknown visitor or the car, the day after the murders, can not be identified from the grainy pictures – 3 times he entered the house, what on earth was he doing there…

I truly hope these murders will be solved.

According to the tps chief of police, the police know who that person was and have spoken to them. This was from some time ago, so don't have the link handy.

 

[ldlager]

Since it appears that JS was married to another male, how did Honey and Barry feel about this relationship? How does the Jewish faith views these relationships? Was this a cause of friction between the parents and their son?

Not apparently in Barry's case. His lifetime best friend, JU was gay and Barry and he remained very close throughout Barry's life. Can't speak about honey though.

 

[Tighthead]

Since it appears that JS was married to another male, how did Honey and Barry feel about this relationship? How does the Jewish faith views these relationships? Was this a cause of friction between the parents and their son?

Reform Jews are pretty chill about most stuff. Not sure about orthodox and the other conservative strains.

 

[Tobiano8th]

not sure where i read this but i'm pretty sure it's donovan in some form........ that person that showed up at shermans 3 times and went back and forth to car/house was identified and judged to have been innocently explained by TPD........ i can't remember the timing of those visits or whether the person was known to have entered house or not (i think they didn't enter house but vague memory)........ can't imagine if you killed someone who was still in house that you would show up there 3 times before or after.

i think the investigation is way beyond the book. i'm guessing donovan's knowledge of case is significantly beyond book or TStar content. my guess is they are paranoid about litigation and having to recall all those books they sold. i sometimes see reasonable recent books that are very expensive on used book sites. and my thought is that the publisher was sued and books recalled or not sold anymore.........

TPD say they have working theory of case. and dealing with uncooperative witness and maybe others who have fled canada... i think the case will be solved but it might be a bit tricky in the court room if the case is circumstantial and given the early incompetence in this case (a detective asking someone about kerry winter didn't know he's a man, M/S being out there so long)...........

 

[Tobiano8th]

i think Desai leaving Apotex was mentioned in book. if not then TStar........... i can't find the exact page/info i'm looking for... but i think BS supported him when he was facing all those terrible allegations, and then he left Apotex quietly in the time since BS death.

 

[deugirtni]

Since it appears that JS was married to another male, how did Honey and Barry feel about this relationship? How does the Jewish faith views these relationships? Was this a cause of friction between the parents and their son?

Not apparently in Barry's case. His lifetime best friend, JU was gay and Barry and he remained very close throughout Barry's life. Can't speak about honey though.

I believe it was at the funeral that JS spoke about BS's interest and etc., in JS's surrogate journey. It seemed obvious that B had no qualms about his offspring's preferences in a mate. Not a word has been spoken however, about H, and her feelings. Now we hear the relationship between H and JS was strained (apparently to put it mildly), so it makes one wonder if that may have been a part of things. Personally, I doubt it, since H would have needed to be open to all kinds of people considering her philanthropic endeavors. (Although perhaps there is a difference between what one portrays to accept in others, and what one actually accepts in one's own immediate family? - who knows?)

 

[Tobiano8th]

this might be overly difficult comment but i wouldn't assume because barry's best friend is gay man who started 2nd family after coming out that BS had no qualms/shock/etc. about his son being gay. BS and HS are of a generation that is not remotely like today..... doubt it has any bearing on this general story, and presumably BS/HS were ok with it (either initially or in time........ i think most people just need some adjustment period)

had a good chuckle in book. HS being all kinds of clothing that's too small for her. i do the exact same. thinking i'll lost 15 lb's when the long established trend is the other direction.

i think Desai was a good Donovan source for generic drugs and/or Apotex.

book makes something clear about Apotex. they don't make huge $$$$ selling all kinds of cheap, generic drugs. they make their big $$$$ challenging highly lucrative, new(ish) patented drugs. then they get to sell it at a high price and pay a 4 or 5% royalty. and i believe that other generic companies can not piggyback of most of Apotex' legal and clinical work. they have to do much of it themselves...... but basically this made it such that Apotex went through extremely profitable periods but also some less profitable periods. so BS personal cash flow oscillated alot. this was not like JnJ selling aspirin.