Mexico - 10 members of Polygamist LeBaron Family murdered, Sonora, Nov 2019 *arrests*

[gitana1]

The Mexican Cartels vs. a Mormon Sect: Behind the Horrific Massacre of American Moms and Children

"The LeBaron community was an odd cultural fixture in the Mexican borderland, an affluent and orderly farming settlement as American as a Texas suburb, with around a thousand fluent Spanish-speaking inhabitants whose native tongue is English, most of whom share a last name in common.

The group’s trials were the stuff of local lore long before drug cartels entered the frame. Over the past decade, however, leading members of the LeBaron community have distinguished themselves as outspoken opponents to the growth of cartel-related kidnappings, extortion and killings in Mexico. "

That’s a really good, comprehensive article.

I find it interesting that the Le Barons have made their way into Mexican political office. They’re usually insular and far outside any government involvement. However, the Mexican government is close to 75% Anglo. So that part makes some sense.

Their prosperity doesn’t as much.

They’re farmers. Just a few decades ago these were people in Mexico on that same land living in absolute, abject poverty.

They’re not smarter than other farmers. And they still practice polygamy which means that while there are a lot of farm hands to go around, there are also a ton of mouths to feed. One man can easily have 25-50 kids and most of the kids live deprived lives. Including historically, the kids of Colonia Le Baron. How did they get so wealthy? How are they making all their money today?

Regardless, I don’t think the cartel made a mistake and we know they knew they were targeting children. They are indeed terrorists. It will be interesting to see if the Le Baron clan leaves en masse or doubles down and continues to reside in their country. Most don’t know anything else than Mexico but it’s not much of a life when you can’t ever leave the compound for fear of being slaughtered by roving cartels.

 

[gitana1]

Pursuing life in one's own way is one thing. But I do not think this group is like the Mennonites at all. Not at all.

They’re a small religious group that purports to live a fundamentalist lifestyle but otherwise no. Big difference.

They still likely practice underage marriage of teen girls to middle aged men. It’s a strange world:

“The children were used as unpaid labour in the domestic appliance repair shops that were the cult's main source of income - forced to scrub grease and grime from rusty ovens and refrigerators for 12 hours a day during school holidays.

"I watched siblings of mine receive horrific beatings for any type of attitude," Anna recalls. "And these are young kids. They're kids. How much work can you really get out of a 10-year-old, or an 11-year-old, really? You can get work out of them if you are beating them."

The children were not cut-off entirely from the outside world. They were allowed to go to school, though they were not allowed to talk about what happened at home, and were "taught to lie" Anna says.

The girls were the lowest of the low in the cult's pecking order.

"It was a patriarchy, for sure. And the young girls were groomed to become wives of polygamist men that already had wives. We were groomed to accept that and to know that that's where we were headed, when we became of marriageable age."

Marriageable age, in the LeBaron family, was 15, she says. "So when I escaped at age 13 I escaped by the skin of my teeth!"”
How I escaped my father's murderous polygamous cult

 

[Tobiano8th]

when i mentioned mennonites in bolivia, my emphasis was on living how they want to with less government interference not that they practice polygamy as the original comment i responded to made that more generic point that there are many groups that live in mexico for this freedom ......... and i was highly aware of LDS missions because 1) i went to an LDS door-to-door recruitment BBQ, 2) i follow BYU (and other utah schools in sports).

to the one poster and WS rules, how can you have a discussion on mormons being murdered and mexico with no reference to religon? i understand rules but why not just shut down the thread? i think that's the best option if the rules are to be followed.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

when i mentioned mennonites in bolivia, my emphasis was on living how they want to with less government interference not that they practice polygamy as the original comment i responded to made that more generic point that there are many groups that live in mexico for this freedom ......... and i was highly aware of LDS missions because 1) i went to an LDS door-to-door recruitment BBQ, 2) i follow BYU (and other utah schools in sports).

to the one poster and WS rules, how can you have a discussion on mormons being murdered and mexico with no reference to religon? i understand rules but why not just shut down the thread? i think that's the best option if the rules are to be followed.

In my opinion these women and children are victims and it has nothing to do with what religion they are. If they were targeted, its more likely because of their activism against cartels. I’m not sure why religion needs to be discussed.

 

[sloane7777]

That’s a really good, comprehensive article.

I find it interesting that the Le Barons have made their way into Mexican political office. They’re usually insular and far outside any government involvement. However, the Mexican government is close to 75% Anglo. So that part makes some sense.

Their prosperity doesn’t as much.

They’re farmers. Just a few decades ago these were people in Mexico on that same land living in absolute, abject poverty.

They’re not smarter than other farmers. And they still practice polygamy which means that while there are a lot of farm hands to go around, there are also a ton of mouths to feed. One man can easily have 25-50 kids and most of the kids live deprived lives. Including historically, the kids of Colonia Le Baron. How did they get so wealthy? How are they making all their money today?

Regardless, I don’t think the cartel made a mistake and we know they knew they were targeting children. They are indeed terrorists. It will be interesting to see if the Le Baron clan leaves en masse or doubles down and continues to reside in their country. Most don’t know anything else than Mexico but it’s not much of a life when you can’t ever leave the compound for fear of being slaughtered by roving cartels.

1. I totally agree with everything you are saying robustly
2. Id still be super surprised if they leave , they have some kind of financial advantage that I don't think they could bring with them KWIM

 

[imstilla.grandma]

These reports are coming in so fast. I’ve posted a few just from the last twelve minutes:

GRAPHIC: US child survivors of Mexico ambush saved by courage, mother

Drug cartel gunmen kill 9 US citizens in an ambush in Mexico

Mexican cartel massacre: Suspect with 2 hostages, assault rifles, bulletproof SUV arrested in border town - TheNextAid

Mexico's Lopez Obrador doubles down on ‘hugs, not bullets’ policy amid mounting criticism

Mexico attack: Boy, 13, hid siblings and walked 14 miles for help after seeing mother killed

Baby Faith who survived Mexican drug cartel massacre reunited with father: 'She is a living angel'

Mexico Now Says Different Cartel Responsible for Mormon Family Murders

“Los Jaguares” the narco group responsable for the LeBaron massacre

Relatives remember women with kids gunned down near Mexico-US border

These are the mothers and their children who were massacred in Mexico

The Ministerial Agency for Criminal Investigations, a Mexican federal agency tasked with combating organized crime, announced on Tuesday that it has detained one person believed to be involved in the massacre of nine people who were driving through the Mexican state of Sonora, according to a CNN report.
Suspect Arrested In Connection To Massacre Of American Mormon Family

 

[CrimeDawg123]

In my opinion these women and children are victims and it has nothing to do with what religion they are. If they were targeted, its more likely because of their activism against cartels. I’m not sure why religion needs to be discussed.

Religion does not need to be discussed. Illegal activity surely can be discussed. Wantonly endangering children surely can be discussed.

 

[Cryptic]

The question as to how the Mexican LeBaron’s make their money is an interesting one.

My vague impression is that they well…. don’t.

Historically, men from the group would take extended trips to the United States and do seasonal work in construction and related trades. They would then return to Mexico with their wages. This income, however, has probably gotten reduced due to the huge numbers of recent arrivals in the US willing to work in construction for low wages.

There is also probably some cross border welfare fraud, but I don’t think that amounts to truly large sums of money, especially given the number of children in very large families. Other sources of income could include cattle ranching on the Mexican economy.

Group leaders maybe relatively wealthy from legacy money, and perhaps collect levied "tribute / taxes" from with in the group, operate advantageous cattle leases etc. . But, my bet is that the vast majority of the colony has been struggling financially for quite some time.

Cartel factions had kidnapped and ransomed people from the group in the past. They then backed off. My guess is that this was not due to random acts of Cartel kindness, but rather an acknowledgement that the victims usually refused to pay ransoms, and even when they did- they simply don’t have enough money to make kidnapping them lucrative.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“What role the FBI will be able to play in Mexico depends a lot on the willingness of our Mexican partners to embrace and bring us in, and that’s still something that’s being worked out,” he stated. “It’s a very fluid situation right now, so I don’t — as we sit here right now — know exactly what our footprint, if you will, will look like, but we’d be happy to follow back up with you as things progress.”
FBI offers help after Americans killed in Mexico | One America News Network

 

[gitana1]

They are. Fatal drug overdoses have dropped 18% this year from the 68K who died last year.

Like any epidemic it takes time to correct anything that has gone on for so long.

Imoo

The drop in drug overdoses in this country is due to two things:

1. Narcan.
2. A crack down on doctors selling opiates like candy. We’ve actually charged at least one with murder. And pharmaceutical companies who have pushed these drugs are being sued in massively huge lawsuits.

I’ve seen, in one of my own cases, perfectly healthy young people using a doctor as a drug pusher. They’re prescribed Norcos for “back pain” and quickly become dependent. Young people in their 20’s. When chasing the high doesn’t work so well they move to heroin. That’s how it happens here.

Another client of mine became a heroin addict after treatment with opiates for back pain as well. Also in her 20’s although she had experienced an actual injury.

But when my dad was dying of cancer these were the drugs used to treat his pain. That’s what they were giving healthy young people.

Cartels supply us drugs like heroin but only after our own medical establishment created the dependency to begin with.

Finally there’s a crack down on the doctors and companies pushing these drugs. Once we stop making people addicts the cartels will massively lose business here.

What they do down in Mexico however is about more than just drugs. It’s about power and corruption.

One would think that the government there would be able to eradicate these cartels to a large degree. The government in Mexico represents the European elite of Mexico. And those are the people historically often targeted by kidnappers for ransom monies because those are the families that have the money.

So the government really has a huge incentive to stop these terrorists. Why aren’t they? Is it just a runaway train that due to their own corruption has been able to consume the nation?

The reality is pretty complex probably. Corruption is a huge part. I mean really? Letting a major drug lord go because people are rioting? The only way to stop these cartels is by rounding them up and locking them away. But the powers that be just let them loose back into the streets they control. Why?

Because the elite heavily benefit from the cartel activity and are essentially involved.

In my opinion these women and children are victims and it has nothing to do with what religion they are. If they were targeted, its more likely because of their activism against cartels. I’m not sure why religion needs to be discussed.

It has nothing to do with their religion although their culture and beliefs, such as underage marriage, and their outlaw history are part of the reason México is their home.

How they live and who they are could also play a part in why they were targeted at this particular time and in such a horrific manner.

I don’t think this is a simple case.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelLocklear?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https://wgxa.tv/news/nation-world/cartels-in-utah-same-group-behind-deadly-mexico-attack-has-an-operation-here-11-06-2019

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The drop in drug overdoses in this country is due to two things:

1. Narcan.
2. A crack down on doctors selling opiates like candy. We’ve actually charged at least one with murder. And pharmaceutical companies who have pushed these drugs are being sued in massively huge lawsuits.

I’ve seen, in one of my own cases, perfectly healthy young people using a doctor as a drug pusher. They’re prescribed Norcos for “back pain” and quickly become dependent. Young people in their 20’s. When chasing the high doesn’t work so well they move to heroin. That’s how it happens here.

Another client of mine became a heroin addict after treatment with opiates for back pain as well. Also in her 20’s although she had experienced an actual injury.

But when my dad was dying of cancer these were the drugs used to treat his pain. That’s what they were giving healthy young people.

Cartels supply us drugs like heroin but only after our own medical establishment created the dependency to begin with.

Finally there’s a crack down on the doctors and companies pushing these drugs. Once we stop making people addicts the cartels will massively lose business here.

What they do down in Mexico however is about more than just drugs. It’s about power and corruption.

One would think that the government there would be able to eradicate these cartels to a large degree. The government in Mexico represents the European elite of Mexico. And those are the people historically often targeted by kidnappers for ransom monies because those are the families that have the money.

So the government really has a huge incentive to stop these terrorists. Why aren’t they? Is it just a runaway train that due to their own corruption has been able to consume the nation?

The reality is pretty complex probably. Corruption is a huge part. I mean really? Letting a major drug lord go because people are rioting? The only way to stop these cartels is by rounding them up and locking them away. But the powers that be just let them loose back into the streets they control. Why?

Because the elite heavily benefit from the cartel activity and are essentially involved.



It has nothing to do with their religion although their culture and beliefs, such as underage marriage, and their outlaw history are part of the reason México is their home.

How they live and who they are could also play a part in why they were targeted at this particular time and in such a horrific manner.

I don’t think this is a simple case.

DEA agents warn pills produced by Mexican drug cartels look "exactly" like real prescriptions and target U.S. children

 

[cvaldez1975]

9 Mormon women and children were shot and 'burned alive' in an ambush near the US-Mexico border - CNN

The LeBaron family's history of conflict with Mexican drug cartels may indicate the family was targeted, former Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castañeda told CNN on Tuesday evening.

"They had stood up to the drug cartels and they did have certain frictions either with the cartels or with neighboring communities over water rights," Castañeda said.

"Their long-standing tensions, and apparently the woman who was driving in the first car that was attacked was an activist. She was someone who was very active in her community, defending her family, her fellow members of the community against cartels, on the issue of water rights," Castañeda said, describing one of the three women killed, without naming her.

The former minister also said the larger LeBaron community had been receiving the protection of 90 federal police stationed around the community since 2011 because of tensions between the family and cartels.

That protection was withdrawn to some extent by the current government earlier this year, according to Castañeda. It's unclear whether all 90 policemen were withdrawn or just some of them, he added.

and here it is in MSM

 

[cvaldez1975]

And the government. Way too much corruption in México. There’s a lot of corruption among the Le Barons as well, however.

yes there is.

 

[Breezie]

‘Innocence Is Shattered:’ A Storied Mormon Family Reels After Mexico Murders

More recently, Mr. Staddon said, family members have been facing new challenges, including the control of gasoline distribution by criminal gangs, which has made farming operations more difficult. Cartels in Mexico seem to be looking for new sources of revenue to make up for losses related to the legalization of marijuana in parts of the United States, he said.

Family members have begun returning to the United States. Some of them are no longer willing to adhere to the community’s strict religious practices, Mr. Staddon said, but many are also wary of the violence that is once again on the rise. Some families had recently traveled north to Arizona to scout out possible purchases of farmland.

“But an exodus takes a little time to organize,” Mr. Staddon said. “It’s tough to leave a place where your family’s invested so much.”

 

[blue22]

Wow. I have been staying out of the news as of late, so only plugged into this story today.
20 years ago, I went to church with some from the Lebaron and Chynoweth families. I was not close with them (They were "church friends" that you chat with on Sunday,) but heard so much of their stories. The children were in witness protection for a time after their parent's murder. Of course, they were grown when I met them and openly talked about their story. I met Irene Spencer when she spoke at the church. I feel so badly for the family, as I know they would love for all their members to be free of what goes on in Mexico. I know they must be shattered over this.

The government there is corrupt as you can get. The Lebaron family is also corrupt and perverse. These women and children did not deserve such an awful tragedy. It's just insanely sad all around.

 

[Breezie]

My vague impression is that they well…. don’t.

Historically, men from the group would take extended trips to the United States and do seasonal work in construction and related trades. They would then return to Mexico with their wages. This income, however, has probably gotten reduced due to the huge numbers of recent arrivals in the US willing to work in construction for low wages.

There is also probably some cross border welfare fraud, but I don’t think that amounts to truly large sums of money, especially given the number of children in very large families. Other sources of income could include cattle ranching on the Mexican economy.

Group leaders maybe relatively wealthy from legacy money, and perhaps collect levied "tribute / taxes" from with in the group, operate advantageous cattle leases etc. . But, my bet is that the vast majority of the colony has been struggling financially for quite some time.

Cartel factions had kidnapped and ransomed people from the group in the past. They then backed off. My guess is that this was not due to random acts of Cartel kindness, but rather an acknowledgement that the victims usually refused to pay ransoms, and even when they did- they simply don’t have enough money to make kidnapping them lucrative.

Drug cartels target Mormon clans in Mexico for their wealth

The Mormon community based in Colonia LeBaron, numbering about 1,000, has one motel, two grocery stores and lots of schools. There are no ATMs and no liquor sales. Many Mormons are conspicuous not only for their straw-colored hair and pale skin, but also for their new pickup trucks, large suburban-style homes with green front lawns, and big tracts of land for their pecans and cattle. They are wealthy, by the standards of their poor Mexican neighbors. Most of the Mormon men make their money working construction jobs in the United States; a young Mormon might work 10 years hanging drywall in Las Vegas before he has enough money to buy a plot of land to start his own pecan orchard here.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[imstilla.grandma]

 

[Breezie]

After 'bullets rained from above,' child survivors of a Mexico ambush tried to save each other - CNN

"All of a sudden, bullets just rained from above, from on top of a hill, down on top of them," Langford said. "The mothers were dead. There were seven wounded children that were alive."

According to the young survivors, "once the firing stopped, these men came off the mountain and pulled all these kids that were still alive," Langford said.

"They basically told them to get out of here. So they immediately started walking toward home," taking turns carrying a young boy who was severely wounded.
He marveled at the "heroic actions" of the children who tried to help each other in the remote mountainous area near the Sonora-Chihuahua border.