SPAIN - Daniel, 46, & Liam Poole, 22, British tourists, Estepona, Malaga, 1 Apr 2019

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Mrs Marple said:
If you feel able to ask the FLO, perhaps you ask them to provide the mileage (or km) of the car too as these things are usually recorded for lease vehicles before and upon return. Presumably it didn't have a sat nav that was checked.

I read that they had been on holiday to this place a few times before, is that correct Lauryn?

I'm so sorry for your ordeal.

Edit l'm sorry if we come across as a bit nit picky sometimes, but occasionally tiny little details matter quite a lot.
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You have a point yes tiny details do matter .... so if they did travel to gibralter is it possible they could have planned other means of travel than their own vehichle and had other I D requirements ??? Or if they didnt need passport maybe travelled near there or somewhere totally different?? As far as spanish rules go your legal identity is always required on your person at all times ....if they have travelled here numerous times this would be of known to them ....as you could be detained if not shown..... this is a fact...so is it possible they had other means of ID. ?? As to where they where going for whatever reason . ?
 
This case was featured today on the BBC News Channel South East at 1.30pm. The conclusion that was reached was that the two gentlemen somehow got caught up in the drugs turf war which is raging along the Costa del Sol. I travel every year to Marbella and you have to be careful. Gangsters are known to carry out tit for tat killings in broad daylight in local shopping centres. Estepona in particular has a large presence from Eastern Europe. The general impression is that the local police are inadequately resourced to tackle the problem. I very much hope the Poole family find some form of closure to ease their pain.
 
Distant Observer said:
This case was featured today on the BBC News Channel South East at 1.30pm. The conclusion that was reached was that the two gentlemen somehow got caught up in the drugs turf war which is raging along the Costa del Sol. I travel every year to Marbella and you have to be careful. Gangsters are known to carry out tit for tat killings in broad daylight in local shopping centres. Estepona in particular has a large presence from Eastern Europe. The general impression is that the local police are inadequately resourced to tackle the problem. I very much hope the Poole family find some form of closure to ease their pain.
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Unfortunately, I think you are probably very close to the truth here. IMO any talk of Morocco, hire cars and cash for buying property are deliberate red herrings, put out there by people who want to cloud the water. Personally I don't buy any of it and I bet the police don't either. I really hope that one day Lauryn as you say can find some form of closure.
 
The BBC News story featured Liam's grandmother and her visit to Spain against the advice of the Spanish police who seemed totally unsympathetic to her family's concerns for the missing two. Clearly they thought the two gentlemen had somehow become victims of a violent drugs gang. This article is useful background to understand the seriousness of the drug crime situation on the Costa Del Sol.
Narco warfare on the rise on Spain’s Costa del Sol
 
HongKongPhooey said:
Unfortunately, I think you are probably very close to the truth here. IMO any talk of Morocco, hire cars and cash for buying property are deliberate red herrings, put out there by people who want to cloud the water. Personally I don't buy any of it and I bet the police don't either. I really hope that one day Lauryn as you say can find some form of closure.
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This is a public forum with opinions based on what is on here, so whatever you think on an opinion or wether you 'buy' it is your personal opinion. Nobody is asking anybody to 'buy' anything....maybe instead of trying to be a detective and saying some postings are red herrings..... for 1 mention of morroco was because of a confirmed ransom call the family spoke of ...also cash for property again the family said could been possibility.... so red herring and clouding water .... when these statements were made.... quite baffling to me
 
Bramble said:
This is a public forum with opinions based on what is on here, so whatever you think on an opinion or wether you 'buy' it is your personal opinion. Nobody is asking anybody to 'buy' anything....maybe instead of trying to be a detective and saying some postings are red herrings..... for 1 mention of morroco was because of a confirmed ransom call the family spoke of ...also cash for property again the family said could been possibility.... so red herring and clouding water .... when these statements were made.... quite baffling to me
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I agree 100%. IMO is "in my opinion". It just seems the most likely thing to me is what Distant Observer references from the bbc report but I'm not basing my opinion on anything factual.

What are your thoughts Bramble, on what happened to these two?
 
HongKongPhooey said:
Unfortunately, I think you are probably very close to the truth here. IMO any talk of Morocco, hire cars and cash for buying property are deliberate red herrings, put out there by people who want to cloud the water. Personally I don't buy any of it and I bet the police don't either. I really hope that one day Lauryn as you say can find some form of closure.
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I agree. I think the people responsible are probably quite experienced at being slippery. We can only hope that the police have a good idea of who they are.
 
HongKongPhooey said:
I agree 100%. IMO is "in my opinion". It just seems the most likely thing to me is what Distant Observer references from the bbc report but I'm not basing my opinion on anything factual.

What are your thoughts Bramble, on what happened to these two?
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My thoughts are like yours just thoughts and everybody elses here. there is nothing factual because we dont know anything unless you do and whatever I have thought is based on information given here by their family. At the minute it's hard answer my thought on what has happened to these two like you ask because I actually hope they still ok .with so many disagreements within their own family as to their history makes it difficult what to think.
 
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I hope that this family get some answers or at least reunite as a lot of cases dont always end in a loss. But I think it's sad that a lot of opinions posted are almost as if they know or put across that something bad to them has occurred , the family must be upset to see so much negativity in the hope of finding them.... considering they are just still missing ..it has been a while but try be hopeful..these two do have a daughter and sister hoping and praying they will be found. Il leave it here now as it's hard to read comments assuming the worst when we dont know anything more than their own family.
 
Bramble said:
You have a point yes tiny details do matter .... so if they did travel to gibralter is it possible they could have planned other means of travel than their own vehichle and had other I D requirements ??? Or if they didnt need passport maybe travelled near there or somewhere totally different?? As far as spanish rules go your legal identity is always required on your person at all times ....if they have travelled here numerous times this would be of known to them ....as you could be detained if not shown..... this is a fact...so is it possible they had other means of ID. ?? As to where they where going for whatever reason . ?
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what kinds of other means of travel are possible but not their vehicle to go where?
where might they have gone near there but totally different where they could have gone?
what kinds of other means of ID are possible and acceptable as means of ID requirements to go there? I'm not sure and need some help for these ideas.
 
AzPistonsGirl said:
what kinds of other means of travel are possible but not their vehicle to go where?
where might they have gone near there but totally different where they could have gone?
what kinds of other means of ID are possible and acceptable as means of ID requirements to go there? I'm not sure and need some help for these ideas.
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Travel outside Spain from the Mainland is worryingly easy. The Schengen Zone means that we don't necessarily need a passport to travel. We don't know if Liam and Daniel had NIEs or Residencia (maybe Lauryn can help here) they are both concidered forms of ID. Again, here in Spain security with ID is very limited. A stamp is seen as an antifraud device (I'm not kidding) the only thing they are weirdly secure about effects the SIM card theory mentioned - getting a SIM card in Spain is impossible without an NIE number.

I personally believe that Gibraltar and Morocco are possible to get to without any ID.
 
Bramble said:
You have a point yes tiny details do matter .... so if they did travel to gibralter is it possible they could have planned other means of travel than their own vehichle and had other I D requirements ??? Or if they didnt need passport maybe travelled near there or somewhere totally different?? As far as spanish rules go your legal identity is always required on your person at all times ....if they have travelled here numerous times this would be of known to them ....as you could be detained if not shown..... this is a fact...so is it possible they had other means of ID. ?? As to where they where going for whatever reason . ?
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They could honestly be anywhere. The rail here connects all over Europe with very few passport control checks in the Schengen. This is my hope. That they have run from the people they were clearly involved with. I hope one day Lauryn and Lottie will get a phone call from the blue.
 
mrsjonesjo said:
Travel outside Spain from the Mainland is worryingly easy. The Schengen Zone means that we don't necessarily need a passport to travel. We don't know if Liam and Daniel had NIEs or Residencia (maybe Lauryn can help here) they are both concidered forms of ID. Again, here in Spain security with ID is very limited. A stamp is seen as an antifraud device (I'm not kidding) the only thing they are weirdly secure about effects the SIM card theory mentioned - getting a SIM card in Spain is impossible without an NIE number.

I personally believe that Gibraltar and Morocco are possible to get to without any ID.
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BBM well lve been to both from mainland Spain and l can assure you, you do need your passport, and it is checked.
 
I went to Holland from here a couple of months ago. My passport was given a cursory glance at the gate. No passport control. I stand by it not being too difficult to if you really wanted to.
 
When you think about it it's not just spain people enter all different places all over the world ( these two are obviously not immigrants) but I get your point it is very possible...
 
I can absolutely guarantee you, you couldn't be more wrong with that you don't need ID to cross into Morocco or Gibraltar.

I reside just outside of Estepona and work in Gibraltar every day. I cannot cross the Spain to Gibraltar border without my passport.

On another note - @Laurynpoole - do you have a map of the locations as previously discussed? This could be of great help to me; I'll do what I can to help you in return.
 
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