Mexico - 10 members of Polygamist LeBaron Family murdered, Sonora, Nov 2019 *arrests*

They ARE more educated, more industrious, and more ruthless than other local farmers.

Their work ethic and financial success makes them conspicuous and engenders envy
The bolded claim sounds like propaganda.

My guess is that two things help the Mormons- neither of which is centered on a purported superior work ethic

1. Access to the US economy for employment:
This allows Mexican Mormons to supplement local income with higher income earned in the United States- something that a good number of the local Mexicans cannot do. This supplemental income allows for the purchase of better farming equipment, better land and better infrastructure improvements. This advantage has been going generations so better infrastructure, better equipment “snowballs”

Mexican Mormons also have access to US welfare benefits, which is also a cash infusion. Why people with purportedly superior work ethics would want welfare is beyond me, but... welfare fraud and polygamous Mormons have a loooong history together.
Leaders in Warren Jeffs' polygamy sect arrested for welfare fraud

2. Larger sense of community: This allows several thousand Mormons to more efficiently share resources (cash, equipment, infrastructure, labor etc) on a larger scale than local Mexicans. These benefits can also snowball.
 
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The bolded claim sounds like propaganda.

My guess is that two things help the Mormons- neither of which is centered on a purported superior work ethic

1. Access to the US economy for employment:
This allows Mexican Mormons to supplement local income with higher income earned in the United States- something that a good number of the local Mexicans cannot do. This supplemental income allows for the purchase of better farming equipment, better land and better infrastructure improvements. This advantage has been going generations so better infrastructure, better equipment “snowballs”

Mexican Mormons also have access to US welfare benefits, which is also a cash infusion. Why people with purportedly superior work ethics would need welfare is beyond me, but... welfare fraud and polygamous Mormons have a loooong history together.
Leaders in Warren Jeffs' polygamy sect arrested for welfare fraud
A Food Stamp Fraud Case Could Bring Down a Polygamous Sect of the Mormon Church

2. Larger sense of community:
This allows several thousand Mormons to more efficiently share resources (cash, equipment, infrastructure, labor etc) on a larger scale than local Mexicans. These benefits can also snowball.
Amen to this. And I don't know how you could possibly ignore these facts in these murders - it points to a possible motive.
 
This is murder in itself also, (Reuters) - Mexican drug cartels are making "mass quantities" of fake prescription pills containing the synthetic opioid fentanyl with the intention of selling them to users throughout North America, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) said on Monday
I really don’t get this, because if you kill off your customers, eventually there won’t be enough left to sustain business...???
 
Mexico family attack: Officials scramblie to find whoever killed 9 Mormon family members, leaving 200 bullet casings - CNN

This latest CNN article says the man arrested was NOT involved in the murders.

A man arrested was not involved in the massacre
On Tuesday, Mexican authorities announced the arrest of a suspect in relation to the massacre.
But Wednesday, Durazo said investigators have learned the suspect was not involved.


Mormon quest for peace and freedom in Mexico shattered by violence and adversity

Authorities did not say whether the individual has been released.
While the investigation unfolds, authorities in the US and Mexico have different theories on who might be responsible.
Chihuahua Attorney General César Peniche Espejel said he believes the newly formed Los Jaguares cartel, an offshoot of the infamous Sinaloa drug cartel, may be behind the massacre.
"These very cartels of Sinaloa, after the arrest of Guzman 'El Chapo,' have suffered fragmentations," Peniche Espejel said.
"They have been growing near the border with the United States and are heavily involved in trafficking of immigrants into the United States and drug-trafficking."
But a US official said Tuesday that a rival cartel called La Línea is under scrutiny.
 
It’s a similar situation. They move there for religious freedom and cheap land.

The question as to how the Mexican LeBaron’s make their money is an interesting one.

Yes. The land is very cheap because rural areas lack the infrastructure to make it arable. That's why the water rights are a huge issue.
 
Wow. I have been staying out of the news as of late, so only plugged into this story today.
20 years ago, I went to church with some from the Lebaron and Chynoweth families. I was not close with them (They were "church friends" that you chat with on Sunday,) but heard so much of their stories. The children were in witness protection for a time after their parent's murder. Of course, they were grown when I met them and openly talked about their story. I met Irene Spencer when she spoke at the church. I feel so badly for the family, as I know they would love for all their members to be free of what goes on in Mexico. I know they must be shattered over this.

The government there is corrupt as you can get. The Lebaron family is also corrupt and perverse. These women and children did not deserve such an awful tragedy. It's just insanely sad all around.
I loved her book!! I agree with you
 
LBM

Link ?
Well it looks like there might be a motive.
Not excusing what happened , of course.
You can't take water from other hard-working farmers and ranchers and not expect some fallout.
That just widened the suspect pool by a wide margin.
There might be an arrest that surprises people.
A fellow farmer or rancher and not the cartels.
There needs to be justice ; the offended farmer can't kill children just because your farm has no water.
That doesn't pardon the killers.

I wasn’t asked, but I’ll post one anyway

They grow walnuts, not pecans. Water Wars: Ranchers Clash Over Scarce Resources in Mexico
 
The drop in drug overdoses in this country is due to two things:

1. Narcan.
2. A crack down on doctors selling opiates like candy. We’ve actually charged at least one with murder. And pharmaceutical companies who have pushed these drugs are being sued in massively huge lawsuits.

I’ve seen, in one of my own cases, perfectly healthy young people using a doctor as a drug pusher. They’re prescribed Norcos for “back pain” and quickly become dependent. Young people in their 20’s. When chasing the high doesn’t work so well they move to heroin. That’s how it happens here.

Another client of mine became a heroin addict after treatment with opiates for back pain as well. Also in her 20’s although she had experienced an actual injury.

But when my dad was dying of cancer these were the drugs used to treat his pain. That’s what they were giving healthy young people.

Cartels supply us drugs like heroin but only after our own medical establishment created the dependency to begin with.

Finally there’s a crack down on the doctors and companies pushing these drugs. Once we stop making people addicts the cartels will massively lose business here.

What they do down in Mexico however is about more than just drugs. It’s about power and corruption.

One would think that the government there would be able to eradicate these cartels to a large degree. The government in Mexico represents the European elite of Mexico. And those are the people historically often targeted by kidnappers for ransom monies because those are the families that have the money.

So the government really has a huge incentive to stop these terrorists. Why aren’t they? Is it just a runaway train that due to their own corruption has been able to consume the nation?

The reality is pretty complex probably. Corruption is a huge part. I mean really? Letting a major drug lord go because people are rioting? The only way to stop these cartels is by rounding them up and locking them away. But the powers that be just let them loose back into the streets they control. Why?

Because the elite heavily benefit from the cartel activity and are essentially involved.



It has nothing to do with their religion although their culture and beliefs, such as underage marriage, and their outlaw history are part of the reason México is their home.

How they live and who they are could also play a part in why they were targeted at this particular time and in such a horrific manner.

I don’t think this is a simple case.
Transcript:
Chasing the Dragon: The Life of an Opiate Addict — FBI
 
gitana, thank you for the color on different fringe groups living in mexico. hope "fringe" isn't too negative. but it makes complete sense they want freedom to pursue life their way..... how do they make a living?

i have met alot of mennonites who are from bolivia...... i'm guessing that is similar situation...... or is that from spreading as missionaries?

A lot of Mennonites in South America emigrated from Germany and Russia after WWII. Their homes had been taken, and very few countries were open to German speaking , pacifist refugees.
That mostly doesn't apply to Mexico, and definitely not to the Le Baron colony.
 
That mostly doesn't apply to Mexico, and definitely not to the Le Baron colony.
As a side note, northern Mexico has some of the largest Mennonite colonies outside of Canada.
Mexico had the same interest is allowing Mennonite colonies as they did the Mormons:

Well funded (Mennonites in Mexico have access to US or Canadian incomes) farmers willing to settle in remote areas. They pay their taxes and.... equally important, they keep to themselves and have little to no involvement in Mexican politics or larger society.

Likewise, the religious nature of the Mormons and Mennonites keeps their colonies internally disciplined. Those with strong criminal inclinations get booted as do other high negative social impact individuals. Tolerated criminals may victimize their own, but not greater Mexican society.

The ability to expel blatant criminals and the perpetually unproductive / constant negative social impact types also contributes to the "more industrious" legend behind both groups (the main advantage by a huge margin is access to US or Canadian incomes).

In contrast, greater local Mexican society can't really expel their blatant criminals or perpetual hustlers. Thus, they can't field the same type of social "team".
 
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Mexico family ambush: Funerals for victims set to begin Thursday

Dozens of relatives of the slain family members from all over the United States gathered Wednesday in a Walmart parking lot in Douglas, Arizona. They then crossed over into Mexico to begin the three-hour drive to La Mora in a convoy of about a dozen vehicles guarded by heavily-armed Mexican solders and state police.

Emily Langford, a close relative of the victims, traveled from Utah to attend the funerals. She said she grew up in Mexico feeling safe but was afraid to return.

"This time, the fear is extreme," Langford said as she waited in Douglas for the convoy to disembark. "I've never felt this kind of fear before going into Mexico. I was born there, I grew up there. I lived in peace all of my life down there."

Langford blames the Mexican government for failing to rein in cartel violence, which since 2006 has claimed the lives of an estimated 250,000 people.

"I do believe it is the Mexican government's fault. I blame them entirely for not taking a stand a long time ago when other innocent lives were being taken," Langford said. "It angers me. I love the people of Mexico. There's so many good people here. They're so hospitable and loving. They don't deserve this. They need to be taken care of, and their president is not taking care of them."
 
That article is very telling.

In fairness to the Lebaron clan, they do not appear to be doing any more than wealthy ethnic Mexican ranchers with uhmm..... "protected interests". Even still, a few concessions from the family might go a long ways.

I couldn’t agree more. You can only push people so far when it comes to something as vital as water supply before they retaliate. Not that I am saying this is what happened.

IMHO these murders have cartel written all over them.

Something is bothering me though. Looking at the location where they were ambushed and considering the way they were ambushed, how could the 13 year old possibly hide the other children then escape without being seen? I have a feeling they let him go either by turning a blind eye or possibly explicitly.
 
NY Post has an interesting linked article from Slate about the family's involvement with the NXIVM cult in Upstate, NY:

https://nypost.com/2019/11/05/women...l-murders-had-alleged-ties-to-sex-cult-nxivm/

In that link, the writer states:
“ LeBaron’s brother was kidnapped by a local drug cartel in 2009, and the family defiantly refused to pay a ransom. The cartel eventually released the abducted man.”

Was there another brother of Julian’s who was kidnapped? Because the only one I know of who was kidnapped in 2009 was murdered by the cartel. Certainly not let go.

Edit: Found another article that mentions Erick LeBaron who was kidnapped by the cartel and released after the family refused to pay the million dollar ransom. This was a 2 months before Benjamin was murdered by them.
 
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This is an interesting article:
Mormon colonies are fighting drug cartels in Mexico

“That changed the game. The Mormons went through the process of getting gun ownership rights in the country, no small feat. Then they called in the Federales, who use their colony – a known safe haven from narcos – as a base of operations, intercepting drug smugglers on major highways in Chihuahua, conducting patrols and raids, and watching the traffickers as they work. The Mormons themselves have also joined the fight, they have adopted the tactics of U.S. troops fighting insurgents in the Iraq War, setting roadblocks and observation posts of their own.”
 
I couldn’t agree more. You can only push people so far when it comes to something as vital as water supply before they retaliate. Not that I am saying this is what happened.

IMHO these murders have cartel written all over them.

Something is bothering me though. Looking at the location where they were ambushed and considering the way they were ambushed, how could the 13 year old possibly hide the other children then escape without being seen? I have a feeling they let him go either by turning a blind eye or possibly explicitly.
Yes there was an article that said a shooter opened the car door after shooting up one of the cars, saw more kids in there and let them go.
 
IMHO these murders have cartel written all over them.

Something is bothering me though. Looking at the location where they were ambushed and considering the way they were ambushed, how could the 13 year old possibly hide the other children then escape without being seen? I have a feeling they let him go either by turning a blind eye or possibly explicitly.
Thanks. I also that the coordinated attacks were performed by a cartel faction. There seem to be only two feasible suspects: Cartel faction or angry locals in water dispute.
The coordination, scale, brutality and possible use of automatic weapons (one vehicle was struck 200 times), all indicate the perpetrators being members of a cartel faction.

Had the motive been a water dispute, I think the circumstances would have been: Angry local uses a hunting rifle to fire at Mormon truck hauling a commercial water pump- one Mormon was badly wounded. Or, Mormon male killed in local village during an altercation. The assailant made references to water usage before shooting the victim with a pistol”.

Likewise, I think you are right about the survivors being allowed to leave. On report stated that the gunmen did not shoot children at close range (adults were another matter). Instead, they slinked off.
 

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