Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[dotr]

Any idea what it would cost to hire a professional hitman?
Would one million dollars cover it....asking for a friend of course.

In the Dan Markel case which i referenced up thread, the hit men were apparently paid $100 thousand dollars.

 

[JayFriend]

lol no.


JK is BS’s longtime business partner who was fired by JS. AK is H & B’s daughter.

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by the "initials only" rule.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Any idea what it would cost to hire a professional hitman?
Would one million dollars cover it....asking for a friend of course.

The FBI has now joined the chat...

In the Dan Markel case which i referenced up thread, the hit men were apparently paid $100 thousand dollars.

That’s disheartening.

I’ve watched a few ‘caught on tape’ people who tried to hire hit men. There’s a pattern that I’ve noticed.

-It’s the hit men who seem to be in charge of the conversation, the ‘customers’ seem submissive.

-the people ordering the hit are talking as if they’re talking to a contractor about their dream kitchen plans. (‘Would be wonderful, if there would be no mess.’ ‘In checking my calendar, here are which days work for me’.)

-the target seems to have been reduced to an object, completely depersonalized.

 

[deugirtni]

The FBI has now joined the chat...

That’s disheartening.

I’ve watched a few ‘caught on tape’ people who tried to hire hit men. There’s a pattern that I’ve noticed.

-It’s the hit men who seem to be in charge of the conversation, the ‘customers’ seem submissive.

-the people ordering the hit are talking as if they’re talking to a contractor about their dream kitchen plans. (‘Would be wonderful, if there would be no mess.’ ‘In checking my calendar, here are which days work for me’.)

-the target seems to have been reduced to an object, completely depersonalized.

And no wonder that the hitmen would seem to be the ones 'in charge', since it is their freedom at risk; ie I wonder what a 'professional' hitman would say to someone who wants to hire him to kill someone with instructions to hang them up with their own belts afterward and stage the scene like that? I'm thinking it would be a big 'just no'. imo.

 

[kiwi50]

And no wonder that the hitmen would seem to be the ones 'in charge', since it is their freedom at risk; ie I wonder what a 'professional' hitman would say to someone who wants to hire him to kill someone with instructions to hang them up with their own belts afterward and stage the scene like that? I'm thinking it would be a big 'just no'. imo.

Maybe they charge double if you want staging.....

 

[deugirtni]

Maybe they charge double if you want staging.....

Staging would obviously take additional time, and at the extended risk that any such hitman may end up getting caught. Would a 'pro' hitman agree to such a thing?

 

[ldlager]

Maybe they charge double if you want staging.....

Think about the drug related massacres we see in Mexico. Killers hanging bodies from bridges, bodies dismembered and body parts laid out for display in public parks, and other public spaces. Those killers don’t seem too concerned with getting caught, And those killers aren’t surely making the kind of money that could be available in this case.

 

[dotr]

Something to keep in mind for those who can afford to hire as many hit men as they wish..rbbm.fwiw.
10 Outrageous Murder-For-Hire Plots - Listverse
"When one person wants to kill another human being and get away with it, one of the most efficient methods is murder-for-hire. By soliciting the services of another individual to perform the murder, the perpetrator can establish an alibi for themselves and make it more difficult to connect them with the crime. This can be a particularly popular method for those with no criminal experience.

Of course, the big drawback is that more people now have knowledge of the murder, so there’s always a greater risk of the scheme falling apart. The most unique murder-for-hire cases are built on circumstances so outrageous that they seem like an unbelievable work of fiction. Some of these cases ended in murder, while others were aborted before they even got off the ground, but it often seemed inevitable that the perpetrators would be caught."
"Mary Ellen Samuels Hires Hit Man To Murder Husband, Hires Two More Hit Men To Murder The Hit Man"

Oct 25 2019
A Chinese businessman hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, court documents say. Now they've all been sentenced to prison.

 

[Tighthead]

Think about the drug related massacres we see in Mexico. Killers hanging bodies from bridges, bodies dismembered and body parts laid out for display in public parks, and other public spaces. Those killers don’t seem too concerned with getting caught, And those killers aren’t surely making the kind of money that could be available in this case.

The Cartel has near immunity. Not comparing like situations.

 

[kiwi50]

Staging would obviously take additional time, and at the extended risk that any such hitman may end up getting caught. Would a 'pro' hitman agree to such a thing?

I was really writing tongue in cheek, but hey real estate agents could be good at staging.

 

[Mind your biscuits]

Something to keep in mind for those who can afford to hire as many hit men as they wish..rbbm.fwiw.
10 Outrageous Murder-For-Hire Plots - Listverse
"When one person wants to kill another human being and get away with it, one of the most efficient methods is murder-for-hire. By soliciting the services of another individual to perform the murder, the perpetrator can establish an alibi for themselves and make it more difficult to connect them with the crime. This can be a particularly popular method for those with no criminal experience.

Of course, the big drawback is that more people now have knowledge of the murder, so there’s always a greater risk of the scheme falling apart. The most unique murder-for-hire cases are built on circumstances so outrageous that they seem like an unbelievable work of fiction. Some of these cases ended in murder, while others were aborted before they even got off the ground, but it often seemed inevitable that the perpetrators would be caught."
"Mary Ellen Samuels Hires Hit Man To Murder Husband, Hires Two More Hit Men To Murder The Hit Man"

Oct 25 2019
A Chinese businessman hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, who hired a hitman, court documents say. Now they've all been sentenced to prison.

Omg that cracked me up! You guys are on a roll today.

 

[ldlager]

I was really writing tongue in cheek, but hey real estate agents could be good at staging.

Or interior designers

 

[ldlager]

The Cartel has near immunity. Not comparing like situations.

They aren’t worried by getting caught by police, or by other cartels ...
(there are many).

 

[casesensitive]

Just some musings...

In one of Kevin D's interviews he said that one of the Sherman kids got a call from a relative of a couple who were murdered in Florida. Their advice was to hire a private investigator as they ultimately had to do. Just a guess, but this might be related to the older Jewish couple from Toronto who were killed in their Florida townhouse condo, and is still unsolved. (Pichoskey and Wise). Dotr mentioned them before. Regardless, someone who had learned the ropes in dealing with LE murder investigations had felt the need to give immediate advice.

I think this information is relevant, as it explains how the idea of hiring outside help came into play. Without that call from someone who had experienced a double murder investigation of loved ones, an independent investigation may never have happened.

I picture the sibling who got the call calling the other three to pitch hiring a private investigator. How the idea of hiring a PI quickly resulted in hiring Greenspan, a noted defense attorney, seems to be a leap. It is possible that Greenspan was an obvious choice to help if he was a trusted family friend (which hasn't been noted). I would love to hear the responses from the other three siblings about debunking the M/S theory, and hiring outside help.

So has Greenspan acted as a truth finder, or as a defense lawyer? His public attack on the TSP investigation is what defense lawyers do, but it seems justified by many reports of their actions and lack of actions. Of interest is Greenspan's reaction to KD's request for information. He won't let KD talk to the kids (which is understandable) but he was willing to provide an answer re the kid's alibis when their parents were murdered. He later changed his mind and said LE prohibited him from doing so, which was untrue, and which TPS confirmed as being untrue. I imagine that KD made note of this as a red flag.

The $10 million reward has resulted in the case being stalled by hundreds of tips on a weekly basis which have had to be processed by TPS. KD notes that he has never seen a wealthy family offer such a huge reward and especially where the tips are directed to the family's agent (Greenspan) instead of to LE.

I think the second autopsies which resulted in a finding of double homicide are legitimate, and were accepted by TPS as credible. Maybe that determination was good news, and then became bad news to Greenspan over time. He seems to be in defense mode. Random question--why did he abruptly stop sending any hotline tips to LE last July?
Just some thoughts I've had as we process what we have learned from KD's investigation.

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

 

[Satchie]

I picture the sibling who got the call calling the other three to pitch hiring a private investigator. How the idea of hiring a PI quickly resulted in hiring Greenspan, a noted defense attorney, seems to be a leap. It is possible that Greenspan was an obvious choice to help if he was a trusted family friend (which hasn't been noted).

It used to be Eddie Greenspan, Brian's older brother who died 5 years ago, was the go-to person called in by rich or famous Canadians who needed a media-saavy legal bulldog. For those clients like Conrad Black or Garth Drabinsky, it was as much about trying to protect their reputation in the media, as it was about the actual legal defence, and the Toronto media adored Eddie. I recall also, Eddie was hired in a similar case to this, the very high profile Ianiero case in 2006, when a wealthy Toronto couple were murdered in a Cancun resort. He launched an aggressive campaign accusing the Mexican police of bungling, and hired his own private investigators to solve the crime.

Brian Greenspan never used the media like his brother did, but I think he has been trying to fill his shoes in this instance (imagine the fee he's collecting). I think he's defending the children, since they're obvious suspects, but more importantly he's defending the family honour against the media allegations of murder suicide.

 

[Tighthead]

It used to be Eddie Greenspan, Brian's older brother who died 5 years ago, was the go-to person called in by rich or famous Canadians who needed a media-saavy legal bulldog. For those clients like Conrad Black or Garth Drabinsky, it was as much about trying to protect their reputation in the media, as it was about the actual legal defence, and the Toronto media adored Eddie. I recall also, Eddie was hired in a similar case to this, the very high profile Ianiero case in 2006, when a wealthy Toronto couple were murdered in a Cancun resort. He launched an aggressive campaign accusing the Mexican police of bungling, and hired his own private investigators to solve the crime.

Brian Greenspan never used the media like his brother did, but I think he has been trying to fill his shoes in this instance (imagine the fee he's collecting). I think he's defending the children, since they're obvious suspects, but more importantly he's defending the family honour against the media allegations of murder suicide.

A file like this is a dream for a lawyer like Greenspan. Huge billings, high profile, and it's much easier than drafting and polishing complex legal arguments for appeals. In almost any practice of law it is largely drudgery, and this isn't.

An added bonus for the family is that anyone charged with the crime can't retain one of the city's most sought-after lawyers.

 

[ldlager]

A file like this is a dream for a lawyer like Greenspan. Huge billings, high profile, and it's much easier than drafting and polishing complex legal arguments for appeals. In almost any practice of law it is largely drudgery, and this isn't.

An added bonus for the family is that anyone charged with the crime can't retain one of the city's most sought-after lawyers.

Well, unless on the off chance he already represents them...

 

[Tobiano8th]

isn't there going to be huge issues if one of the children turns out to be a prime suspect? potentially massive conflict of interest has occurred here and tainted evidence.... i think KD suggests this in some form near the end of the book

i wonder if there will never be charges even if the police feel fairly confident in things.... of course the first month of TPD investigation is a pretty good defense by itself

 

[Tighthead]

Well, unless on the off chance he already represents them...

Would put him in a conflict of interest. He represents all four of the children now. He is boxed out.

 

[rickcross]

Would put him in a conflict of interest. He represents all four of the children now. He is boxed out.

Why? He's not representing any of the children for criminal charges. If one of the children is charged, I see no reason why Greenspan couldn't represent them.